Caledonian Sleeper?

[ashley_johnston]

have you ever travelled on the Caledonian Sleeper?

i'm a design student currently reviewing the service provided and i'd be really interested to hear your opinions and experiences of the service.

for example, did you travel business class? how was your berth in terms of space? did you have any meals and if so what was the standard like?

thanks

ashley

 

[gordonthemoron]

not travelled on the caledonian sleeper but have used the Cornishman sleeper a few yeasr ago & used MkIII sleepers in the 80's under BR.

Not tried the catering facilities (if there was any). I have had both single & double occupancy cabins. There is plenty of space for single occupancy and it's not bad for double occupancy. I'd say that there is more space in the MkIII sleepers than in the non-ensuite cabins found in germany. However the standard of the ensuite cabins in germany is far above the MkIIIs

 

[JustinStacey.x]

I didn't like it much.

Going down to London I didn't get very much sleep at all and the only reason I did when coming back is because I was that knackered I'd probably have slept through a storm anyway.

The ride is pretty bumpy, there's the inevitable shudder when the train moves off from a stand and also sometimes when stopping. Then there's the humming/buzzing of electricity when the train is accelerating which is particularly loud in some coaches and the noise levels of the train going over the tracks are also somewhat higher than I'd expected.

Perhaps my expectations are too high... but I just don't rate the sleeper that highly.

 

[laird]

In the past I've used sleepers from Bristol/London - Edinburgh/Glasgow on top of the Highland sleeper to Inverness and Fort William far too many times.

Last year I also tired Reading-St Austell on the First Great Western sleeper.

First Great Western have invested and recognised that the majority of passengers would prefer to be the only occupant of the cabin and this makes for a pleasant standard class experience. The recent refurbishment adding Volo TV is an example of how they are reacting and trying to make the service more competitive.


Scotrail First Class is still the same cabin but at least feels slightly more open with the upper bunk folded away, the surprise for me was travelling standard class with a solo supplment discovering that this mean simply that I was in a standard cabin alone - I'd imagined the upper berth would have been folded away. That said it made for extra storage space.


If you think about the cabin as simply somewhere to sleep then it is a great service and the experience of sitting in an unrestrained chair in the lounge car can be quite fun as an enthusiast.

 

[The_Stig]

I have used it, about 5 years ago.

I personally couldn't sleep on it as the feeling of heading head first towards the cabin wall and then feet first as we flew round corners was rather worrying, not to mention the 'jerky' movements.

The missus however slept like a log.

I thought the space was generous in the cabin and I liked the wee bag of goodies you got.

The noise from the corridor when people walked passed was rather loud and could perhaps benefit from better sound proofing. The rest of the cabin was peaceful and I did not hear much of the 'usual' train noises.

 

[Mintona]

I've done it to Inverness from Euston and from Aberdeen to Euston last year. Gotta say, I slept very well on both occasions. Northbound I didn't try to sleep til after Nuneaton coz I needed the line from Rugby to Nuneaton and I wanted to be conscious for it! Didn't have any problem at all drifting off in either direction, I like to have some sound when I sleep normally (fan even when it's cold) so the sound of the train relaxed me better.

 

[Aictos]

I used the service from Edinburgh to Euston earlier this year and seeing as I had a few drinks beforehand, I should have nodded off with no problems.

However, because I had trouble sleeping - it was not as pleasant as it could have been, saying that I will be sampling the FGW service some time.

 

[Failed Unit]

Done the highland sleeper before (stayed in the bar until Edinburgh) everything seems very good value in the bar

Done Edinburgh - London via both ECML and WCML, don't know anyone that can sleep through the shunting, whether that is at Waverley or Carstairs.

I agree with other posters the train is very rough riding at stations / signal stops, a lot worse than a passenger train. Not sure how it compared with the 90's and mk3 coaches but you get a big jolt as the train sets off. Could be because the train is so long so you are going to get the problems with inertia!

 

[CallySleeperKid]

Me and my partner have done the Caledonian Sleeper to and from Aberdeen once and Inverness three times, in both first and standard class, and we find the service fantastic.

First class - very enjoyable, the extra space in the cabin is great, the first class breakfast is also a lot better than the standard class coffee and shortbread, a bonus of first class is being in the sleeper coach closest to the lounge car, so if you plan to take advantage of the lounge car, it saves staggering back down 2, 3, 4 or more coaches back to your berth. The little gift bag of tooth brush, tooth paste, shaver etc is a nice touch.

Standard class - although there is the second bunk in use its still a very manageable space, but each time I have shared a cabin it has been with my partner, I would never share with someone I don't know. As mentioned before the breakfast has been downgraded from a continental style breakfast to just a hot drink ans shortbread, On a personal note I don't see that as a problem because the continental breakfast was to dry for me and I only ever fancied a coffee and shortbread after being in a cabin all night.

Overall I would recommend this service to everyone, I would do first class at least once, but the service on a whole is very expensive. Like I say, id go first class just to try it but after that I would check out bargain berths, basically the same as standard class but you can pay as little as £19.

The Inverness portion seem to be busy more often than not, but the Aberdeen southbound portion was very quiet last time I used it. Like us, if you plan on making full use of the lounge then avoiding the Inverness portion seems to be the best way, or make sure you are there as soon as the train is ready for boarding, get your stuff in your berth and get in the lounge ASAP.

Overall, a fantastic service, the lounge car service is always exceptional and sleeping have never been a major problem. For me personally, when in standard class I would be on the top bunk, and find it a little harder to sleep there, plus the fact I am scared of missing anything! but my partner sleeps like a baby on the bottom bunk. When in first class we both sleep fine on the lower bunks.

The major plus with this service is the fact you are buying yourself an extra day in the highlands on the day you arrive and depart, especially if you manage to get a bargain berth, and I have never stayed in a guest house that has not been willing to take our luggage in early and look after it for us until we depart in the evening.

The only downside is the high price, 2 adults with a disabled adult railcard in first class is costing us £331.20 EACH WAY, where as the Night Riviera is around £60 (off the top of my head) per person each way, in a solo cabin with TV and a good looking breakfast and lounge car facilities. For a cheap trip to the highlands, take the plane, if you like your railways, enjoys a nice long ride on some of the most scenic lines in the country, then take the Caledonian sleeper!

 

[87031]

I did the Caledonian Sleeper 3 times in July whilst on an All Line Rover, Crewe-Fort William, Fort William-Euston, Crewe-Inverness. Have to say its just a unique service that has a vibe that no other train has. Staff are friendly, Beds are comfy, cabins cosy, breakfast is good and the lounge car is great especially if your travelling southbound in the summer from Fort William as you can sit back and take in the breathtaking scenery before it goes dusk.

Only downside is the shunting at Edinburgh at 4.30am which is impossible to sleep through! (especially bad in the Fort William portion). Southbound is better as it happens at 1am so u can get good kip before Euston. All in all i love the service and would recommend it too anyone

 

[jamesontheroad]

I'm also a design student of sorts, so perhaps we look at the sleeper trains with the same interested eye. I live in Glasgow, and use the sleeper a couple of times of year for business in London (when someone else pays ) or on occasion for dawn-to-dusk daytrips with my partner.

The mk.3 sleeper coaches used by both the Caledonian Sleeper and Night Riviera are probably somewhere between thirty and forty years old now, so they will probably need heavy refurbishment or replacement in the next decade or so. That said, VIA Rail Canada are still using stainless steel sleepers from the nineteen-forties on some of their cross-country routes, so with care and good maintenance there's no reason they couldn't go on for longer.

However, there are interesting comparisons to be drawn from sleeper stock in other countries. The double decker CityNightLine vehicles used in Europe take advantage of a taller loading gauge that we don't have; these 3D photographs give you a great idea of how ensuite sleeping compartments can be stacked on top of other bathrooms without bathrooms.

http://homepage.mac.com/wkaemena/FS/EuropeTrains/CNLDay
http://homepage.mac.com/wkaemena/FS/EuropeTrains/CNLSleepingCar/
http://homepage.mac.com/wkaemena/FS/EuropeTrains/CNL

For a suggestion of what the mk. 3 sleeper replacements might have looked like, search this forum and elsewhere for images of the VIA Rail Canada Nightstar stock - these were built for the aborted overnight service through the Channel Tunnel and sold to the Canadians instead. They featured a number of refinements of the mk. 3 design (although I believe are technically mk. 4s), including en suite bathrooms. However I remember reading that the large water tanks necessary to serve these were found to make the trains too heavy for many UK lines.

 

[harz99]

The only way to get a decent kip on the Mk3 sleeper is to be in the centre berths (7/8/9 ish). However compared to being in carriage 15 at the rear of a Chinese sleeper stopping probably hourly all night, the Mk3s simply glide along!

 

[87031]

yeah i read about the low and high berths where to avoid and possible if your goin north in the fort william portion avoid coach G as its behind the loco till edinburgh then it gets the daytime coaches shunted onto it at Edinburgh. Class 90 scream was noticeable as well id recommend anyone to get some earplugs no matter where you are it just gets rid of the noise of most things including the air-con which can be annoying depending if your a light sleeper. It just depends on the individual really

 

[CallySleeperKid]

yeah i read about the low and high berths where to avoid and possible if your goin north in the fort william portion avoid coach G as its behind the loco till edinburgh then it gets the daytime coaches shunted onto it at Edinburgh. Class 90 scream was noticeable as well id recommend anyone to get some earplugs no matter where you are it just gets rid of the noise of most things including the air-con which can be annoying depending if your a light sleeper. It just depends on the individual really

Coach G in both directions! Good job we sleep well on the sleeper!

 

[spoony]

Ive used it and it was fine. Slept like a log, although that may have had something to do with the 5 pints of lager whilst waiting at the Station Hotel, Carlisle before hand. Getting the sleeper from Edinburgh next month purely to get down to London early.

 

[CallySleeperKid]

Ive used it and it was fine. Slept like a log, although that may have had something to do with the 5 pints of lager whilst waiting at the Station Hotel, Carlisle before hand. Getting the sleeper from Edinburgh next month purely to get down to London early.

Noted

 

[rail-britain]

I completed a 14 day First Class ALR, with 10 journeys on sleeper (9 by FSR and 1 by FGW) during June this year

I have photos of the berths which I can upload for viewing, which show the difference between the two types (left and right hand) and between FSR and FGW

First Class breakfast varied quite wildly on all the FSR services
On the services diverted via ECML I was advised that hot breakfast may not be possible, but they managed it on the second one
Normally breakfast was served on a tray with tea in a teapot
However, on one occasion it was presented in a paper bag with tea in a paper cup!

The hot pannini is acceptable, but on my next ALR I will be choosing the continental breakfast
The reason being is that my next service in the morning usually has great british breakfast and I much prefer that

The air conditioning had not been left switched on at Wembley, so the coaches left out in the sun (the north two) were always roasting hot
This would affect passengers travelling to Fort William and the front two coaches on the Glasgow
However, FSR accepted compensation claims as the staff were issued with forms for this

The ride takes a little getting used to
On my first night (via the WCML) I was woken several times between Carlisle and Preston
However, by the third night I didn't even notice

Sadly I wasn't woken up at my requested time on a Saturday morning, putting my entire day into jeopardy
I awoke naturally to find the train in a station
Hoping it was Euston, but on putting on my glasses realised it was Crewe
Grabbed all my stuff and got off
Checked the times and realised I had 10 minutes to get a Virgin Train to Euston, and still make my connecton
The Chief Steward on the sleeper hurriedly put my breakfast together, which was welcome due to their being no breakfast on VT at weekends

 

[87031]

i didnt request which breakfast i wanted on the fort william northbound and was served the pastry which was like a bland apricot swirl which was just so dry and tasteless, i suppose it depends on the attendant as to whether they make you aware that there is a choice. id prefer cornflakes than the swirl. On next two i did i had the hot pannini which is tasty and much more filling. Perhaps that is one area that Scotrail could improve on is he choices of breakfast. Ideally how about 4 Hot pannini, Cornflakes and toast, Porridge, or Musili served with Yoghurt i suppose the cooking facilities are a bit limited on the lounge car but i think all the ones listed could be offered.

 

[CallySleeperKid]

I think for the money you can pay for a first class ticket on the Caledonian Sleeper that the breakfast is a bit of a let down, although the hot pannini option is filling enough for me when you add the yoghurt, coffee and shortbread, but they really should offer at least cornflakes, it wouldn't be hard or expensive to get some individual packs of cornflakes and small bottles of milk and being as the breakfasts are pre ordered and loaded at Carlisle, then there would be no waste.

Even as it is, the breakfast does not put me off travelling first class on the Caledonian Sleeper, but looking at what The Night Riviera provides, to say you can get a ticket for less than £70, it just leaves me thinking First ScotRail can do so much more.

 

[caughtonatrain]

The Caledonian Sleeper is without a doubt my favourite train journey in the UK ... and when it goes right just as good as any other sleeper service I've taken (although 1st class on Spanish/French Elipsos trenhotel, granted, is more luxurious). It's the scenery that makes it, but to get the most out of this train you really need to do Euston-Fort William. The lounge car is a must - if it's too busy and you're in standard class, just wait 30 mins or so and you'll usually get in.
Refreshments are reasonably priced in comparison with other train catering. Never had a meal unfortunately, but there's usually somebody having the haggis, neeps and tatties when I'm aboard so it can't be that bad. It's great having a drink on a train in a seat that can be moved about just like in a bar.... infact that's exactly what it is: a moving bar. Fantastic.
Sleeping does depend on the individual and precise berth location, as others have stated, but I usually get at least 3-4 hours uninterrupted, much more if the conditions are right. Even the worst night is far preferable to sleeping in a chair or getting up at 4am to make a plane.
Sleepers need investment and should be protected. They're a lifeline for many remote communities; they support tourism; they're the only feasible way of getting to some places in a reasonable timescale.

 

[David Pemberton]

On Monday I took the Caledonian sleeper from Euston to Edinburgh first class. It's mis-named: I got very little sleep.

1) It departs at 2350, you can board at 2250 - both times after my normal bed time so my body clock was already out.

2) The sound proofing is somewhere between rubbish and none existent - so until it departs you'll be woken up by everyone else boarding, and then you'll be woken by them going to and from the bar, and then if anyone one in the cabins on either side snores you'll be woken by that too.

3) If you are not someone to be disturbed by noise you'll be woken by the banging and crashing of the rubbish ride, the frequent sections not on continuously welded rail, and the shunting at Carnforth.

4) If you are impervious to all the above you'll not enjoy your bunk much unless you regularly sleep on a 2 foot wide board and never roll over, and you are much less than 6 foot tall.

The tea is nice, the bacon roll soggy. My sink had the whiff of the sewer about it which suggested that I was unusual in heading for the WC when I needed a pee in the night.

I was told that the only way to guarantee a good night's sleep on the sleeper was to have travelled on the sleeper the night before.

The plus point? At £120 it was cheap, but then it is subsidized to the eyeballs.

Overall - a triumph of nostalgia over economics.

 

[YorkshireBear]

how subsidized?

 

[merlodlliw]

It all sounds better than the time I took the Royal Highlander to Aviemuir with a girlfriend in 1965, for the winter sports of course caught the sleeper at Crewe.

Am I correct in thinking some Sleepers used to go from Kings X to Scotia.

 

[sprinterguy]

Yeah there used to be sleepers from Kings Cross to Edinburgh and Aberdeen, more details have been discussed here:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=35960

Travelling on a sleeper train in 1965? Given that the train would have been formed of mark 1s, I bet the ride was "lively"! Mark 3s must be the peak of luxury compared to a mark 1 SLE.

Haven't travelled on the Caledonian Sleeper myself, but intend to in the near future.

 

[Aictos]

Am I correct in thinking some Sleepers used to go from Kings X to Scotia.

Yes in fact I think it was 1986 or 1987 that the Sleepers got diverted to use Euston - thanks to the many InterCity timetables I'm accrued!

Still, after seeing one route which one Angle Scottish sleeper is being diverted on due to engineering works brings me to a question, what's the longest route possible for a regular sleeper service being diverted both in today's time or in the past?

I have thought of Euston to Inverness via Dundee and Aberdeen BUT there must be other routes?

 

[David Pemberton]

how subsidized?

http://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/docs/central/2008/nr_081128_rail_franchise_km.pdf

Page 2, "First ScotRail will receive £2.5 billion in government subsidy for the franchise over its ten-year term."

I assume that some of that goes to the sleeper, otherwise why is a First Class ticket on the sleeper £120, when during the day it would be £161 on a train carrying more passengers and fewer staff.

 

[YorkshireBear]

i think £250 million a year could be better spent....... electrification new stock etc et ctc etc if its that heavily subsidized reduce number of journeys

 

[AlexS]

Not done the Caley, but the Western sleeper was fine I found.

Boarded about 25 late at Paddington but wasn't really a problem, the crew kept you well informed and kept the drinks flowing in the FC lounge, then got on board, went and collected my complimentary hot chocolate and a cheeky gingerbread man from the buffet car, headed to my birth, consumed them while reading a bit, and then having demonstrated very briefly to the attendant that I could work the gubbins in a mk3 sleeper compartment was left to it.

Train apparently ran direct via the Berks and Hants and I slept like a log from around Slough to when the train rolled out the platform at Exeter St Davids when I woke up for the loo and heard the station announcements!

Watched the sea wall go by in the morning until Newton Abbot then went back to sleep, and was woken with breakfast at Truro by a stewardess, fairly nice bacon roll and such, and then hopped off the train very happy at Penzance.

Train crew were all very pleasant and friendly (I hope if they ever read this they don't mind me saying but they were all fairly mild mannered motherly ladies on this occasion) and made me feel very comfortable throughout.

Had a nice additional breakfast of scrambled eggs on toast in the buffet at Penzance and set off for my day touring Cornwall's branches. Excellent way of getting about I thought.

 

[Failed Unit]

i think £250 million a year could be better spent....... electrification new stock etc et ctc etc if its that heavily subsidized reduce number of journeys

This I think is refering to the whole franchise, without the £250 million per year we would have no service north of Dundee or Perth I suspect!

 

[scotsman]

3) If you are not someone to be disturbed by noise you'll be woken by the ... and the shunting at Carnforth.

Carnforth? Carstairs, perhaps?