Caledonian Sleeper

[sh24]

Is that really a surprise considering it's the school holidays (and not just for the uk either) !?

School holidays, peak holiday month across Europe and approaching the start of the Edinburgh Festival too

 

[hexagon789]

Real.lack of capacity on the CS this coming weekend. Been trying to book for Glasgow/Helensburgh on Lowlander/Highlander with zero availability on anything. Longer trains needed! Will have to use the day train instead.

Can book Saturday morning on the forum's site and seems to be 11 seats available still.



(Screenshot shows seat availability on the Fort William portion seated coach of the Caledonian Sleeper departing Glasgow Queen Street on Saturday 1st August.)

 

[Kite159]

Can book Saturday morning on the forum's site and seems to be 11 seats available still.

View attachment 208512

(Screenshot shows seat availability on the Fort William portion seated coach of the Caledonian Sleeper departing Glasgow Queen Street on Saturday 1st August.)

Glasgow to Helensburgh is a bit pointless if JamieL was looking to book from London. The Fort William seated portion will rarely be a complete sell out due to sharing with Aberdeen seated passengers

 

[hexagon789]

Glasgow to Helensburgh is a bit pointless if JamieL was looking to book from London. The Fort William seated portion will rarely be a complete sell out due to sharing with Aberdeen seated passengers

They said Glasgow Helensburgh in their post though?

Been trying to book for Glasgow/Helensburgh

 

[sh24]

They said Glasgow Helensburgh in their post though?

I read that as Glasgow or Helensburgh.

 

[800002]

Real.lack of capacity on the CS this coming weekend. Been trying to book for Glasgow/Helensburgh on Lowlander/Highlander with zero availability on anything. Longer trains needed! Will have to use the day train instead.

Happy to be corrected but I assume galsfow on the lowlander or Helensburgh on the highlander.

There's a classic solo room available at the moment for Friday night, on the lowlander.
Then nothing till Monday, with a classic room available on the highlander.

 

[hexagon789]

I read that as Glasgow or Helensburgh.

Fair enough.

 

[800002]

Longer trains needed!

And i believe they are as long as can be with 16 coaches arriving / departing Euston...?

 

[Steve Harris]

School holidays, peak holiday month across Europe and approaching the start of the Edinburgh Festival too

Exactly !

And i believe they are as long as can be with 16 coaches arriving / departing Euston...?

Indeed.

Considering the amount of subsidy that CS already receives and the constraint on platform lengths I can't see any longer trains (or more trains/services) being introduced. (So I can't see JamieL's wish being granted).


A phrase used a long time ago springs to mind... "book early to avoid disappointment" !

 

[Struner]

trying to book indeed, 2/5 days ahead? this time of year?

 

[JamieL]

Yes was looking for a train on Thursday (cabin - would never use the seats as I don't hate myself). Not surprised it has sold out but it shows demand outstrips supply.

I often wonder if the CS operation could be expanded and in doing so introduce some efficiencies. Why not have a dedicated Inverness bound Highlander run from King's Cross to Inverness with the maximum length possible? We know that is a major tourist route so would be an easy win. Equally bin the combined Glasgow/Edinburgh Sleepers and have a dedicated full length train going to each from Euston and King's Cross. The FW/Aberdeen Highlander could then go as a 16 car train with two seated carriages and two diner cars with a simple split at Edinburgh. This would increase capacity but would avoid all the shunting/additional staffing required for the manoeuvres at Carstairs and Edinburgh. I appreciate there isn't the rolling stock for this at this time.

 

[styles]

Yes was looking for a train on Thursday (cabin - would never use the seats as I don't hate myself). Not surprised it has sold out but it shows demand outstrips supply.

I often wonder if the CS operation could be expanded and in doing so introduce some efficiencies. Why not have a dedicated Inverness bound Highlander run from King's Cross to Inverness with the maximum length possible? We know that is a major tourist route so would be an easy win. Equally bin the combined Glasgow/Edinburgh Sleepers and have a dedicated full length train going to each from Euston and King's Cross. The FW/Aberdeen Highlander could then go as a 16 car train with two seated carriages and two diner cars with a simple split at Edinburgh. This would increase capacity but would avoid all the shunting/additional staffing required for the manoeuvres at Carstairs and Edinburgh. I appreciate there isn't the rolling stock for this at this time.

I'd agree with this, and also add in shared berths, potentially couchettes. I know it's not everybody's cup of tea sharing with strangers, but I think there'd be sufficient demand for it from young people wanting to adventure up that way without having to choose between a whole night sat upright in a seat or shelling out what to many people are quite big sums to get a bed under the current offering.

 

[pitdiver]

The current offering is somewhat eye watering even with my wife and I holding PTACs. That's if we could get a classic cabin.

 

[800002]

The current offering is somewhat eye watering even with my wife and I holding PTACs. That's if we could get a classic cabin.

Not if you consider, at the same time, what you're actually getting in return.
Namely, a bed / place to sleep for the night. And not having to spend most of a day traveling or a full rate hotel for the night too.

 

[Falcon1200]

The current offering is somewhat eye watering even with my wife and I holding PTACs.

Yet despite that the operation still requires huge public subsidy! And would need even more should the service be expanded. The inefficiency of sleeping car trains, ie each coach having less capacity than a day vehicle and only making one journey per day, makes that inevitable.

 

[cats_five]

School holidays, peak holiday month across Europe and approaching the start of the Edinburgh Festival too

And the Commonwealth Games end this coming weekend

 

[Coleridge]

Not if you consider, at the same time, what you're actually getting in return.
Namely, a bed / place to sleep for the night. And not having to spend most of a day traveling or a full rate hotel for the night too.

Though the cost of the sleeper accommodation is similar to that of a hotel but the standard similar to that of a youth hostel.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Though the cost of the sleeper accommodation is similar to that of a hotel but the standard to that of a youth hostel.

The youth hostel doesn't include a long journey in the price, however...

 

[styles]

Yet despite that the operation still requires huge public subsidy! And would need even more should the service be expanded. The inefficiency of sleeping car trains, ie each coach having less capacity than a day vehicle and only making one journey per day, makes that inevitable.

Pretty much all rail services have been run with public subsidy for over a century. The CS operation may require more subsidy than daytime services, but I think the principle that there's a public benefit in investing in affordable, environmentally-friendly transport is well established.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2026 ==

Not if you consider, at the same time, what you're actually getting in return.
Namely, a bed / place to sleep for the night. And not having to spend most of a day traveling or a full rate hotel for the night too.

The main reason I used to use it fairly often for work. Also on many of the journeys people would make for work it meant getting somewhere for a 9am start was more feasible. The alternative was flying (don't like mainland domestic flights if I can avoid it) to Heathrow or London City which are pricey; or travelling the day before and hotelling it, but that wipes out an evening of time with friends/family, doing hobbies, etc.

 

[JamieL]

Yet despite that the operation still requires huge public subsidy! And would need even more should the service be expanded. The inefficiency of sleeping car trains, ie each coach having less capacity than a day vehicle and only making one journey per day, makes that inevitable.

I don't really consider the subsidy argument to be valid. The entire railway is a subsisdised entity. Overall, the CS provides rail services to businessmen and tourists - both very high value groupings - which makes the public sector enablement valid. Equally, the seated carriage offers low price connectivity options for those that can travel that way.

Though the cost of the sleeper accommodation is similar to that of a hotel but the standard similar to that of a youth hostel.

Standfast the size, the compartments are actually very good.

 

[capital12]

Though the cost of the sleeper accommodation is similar to that of a hotel but the standard similar to that of a youth hostel.

With the ride quality of the CAF coaches and the small uncomfortable mattress that you can feel the base through I think the youth hostel problem trumps it!

The sleeper comfort is how I’d imagine trying to sleep in a cement mixer!

 

[35B]

Pretty much all rail services have been run with public subsidy for over a century. The CS operation may require more subsidy than daytime services, but I think the principle that there's a public benefit in investing in affordable, environmentally-friendly transport is well established.

CS tests that principle to the limit, given the level of subsidy, high fares, and limited usage.

 

[signed]

CS tests that principle to the limit, given the level of subsidy, high fares, and limited usage.

My experience looking around the booking process is that there are very little times where Caledonian Sleeper is not full, especially in peak season, despite the £200+ most days

 

[zwk500]

The CS operation may require more subsidy than daytime services, but I think the principle that there's a public benefit in investing in affordable, environmentally-friendly transport is well established.

At roughly £1 subsidy for every £1 revenue (IIRC), I would question how far the subsidy for the CS falls into the 'affordable' category.

 

[styles]

With the ride quality of the CAF coaches and the small uncomfortable mattress that you can feel the base through I think the youth hostel problem trumps it!

The sleeper comfort is how I’d imagine trying to sleep in a cement mixer!

I sleep like a log on the sleeper trains. Only in the beds though. I can't sleep sat upright very well anywhere.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2026 ==

At roughly £1 subsidy for every £1 revenue (IIRC), I would question how far the subsidy for the CS falls into the 'affordable' category.

Affordable for passengers was what I meant (though needs reading in the context of my proposal for a cheaper couchette service!)

Subsidy from the government was addressed in the rest of the comment, as it would be for the subsidies we prove for daytime trains, buses, primary schools, hospitals, etc. They serve a public benefit.

 

[Port Road]

Don't forget high subsidies that we all provide to motorists too.

 

[43096]

Yes was looking for a train on Thursday (cabin - would never use the seats as I don't hate myself). Not surprised it has sold out but it shows demand outstrips supply.

I often wonder if the CS operation could be expanded and in doing so introduce some efficiencies. Why not have a dedicated Inverness bound Highlander run from King's Cross to Inverness with the maximum length possible? We know that is a major tourist route so would be an easy win. Equally bin the combined Glasgow/Edinburgh Sleepers and have a dedicated full length train going to each from Euston and King's Cross. The FW/Aberdeen Highlander could then go as a 16 car train with two seated carriages and two diner cars with a simple split at Edinburgh. This would increase capacity but would avoid all the shunting/additional staffing required for the manoeuvres at Carstairs and Edinburgh. I appreciate there isn't the rolling stock for this at this time.

That does not introduce any efficiency - quite the opposite. You need more coaches, more locomotives and more staff. For an operation that loses money hand-over-fist, you just rack up even more losses.

 

[35B]

My experience looking around the booking process is that there are very little times where Caledonian Sleeper is not full, especially in peak season, despite the £200+ most days

That is still limited usage. And the challenge is that increasing capacity at current prices would require further increases in subsidy as the sleeper doesn't cover it's marginal operating costs.

 

[sh24]

I priced the Sleeper for a regular trip to Aberdeen, booking 3 months out. £290 for a Club, £210 for a Classic. Or I can pay BA £80, another £80 for one of the airport hotels, save either £50 or £130 and have a decent nights sleep too. It's not a serious mode of transport for most people travelling on business.

 

[signed]

It's not a serious mode of transport for most people travelling on business.

It is a tourist attraction more than anything, I am sure some people on business use it, but it will always be limited