Caledonian Sleeper

[Peter Mugridge]

Does anybody know why all caledonian sleeper services were cancelled last night?

Fault with the overhead wires - but I don't know where. I suspect the Willesden area, affecting the ecs from Wembley to King's Cross.

 

[Steve Harris]

Fault with the overhead wires - but I don't know where. I suspect the Willesden area, affecting the ecs from Wembley to King's Cross.

You are probably right. As I saw a 1Z99 movement from Wembley Yard to Wembley Depot (which I would have a guess as a diesel loco heading to the Depot to potentially assist in the ECS move).

 

[MadMac]

Notwithstanding electrification/platform length(s)/route clearance/route knowledge/traction knowledge…..

Paddington-Oxford-Banbury-Leamington Spa-Coventry-Birmingham International.

 

[SteveElbows]

Fault with the overhead wires - but I don't know where. I suspect the Willesden area, affecting the ecs from Wembley to King's Cross.

Some of the disruption status updates at the time even used the word depot, and it was certainly at the London end.

They did get one of the trains out of the depot and to Kings Cross eventually, while I was still watching the diagrams, but they'd already cancelled by that stage and it very many hours late.

 

[popeter45]

You still need a platform that can take two engines and a 16 coach train, of which there aren't very many.

Kensington Olympia is Long enough i suppose if you allow the locomotives to be off platform

 

[nom de guerre]

Fault with the overhead wires - but I don't know where. I suspect the Willesden area, affecting the ecs from Wembley to King's Cross.

Yes, an OHLE fault within the Wembley depot complex was discovered yesterday morning which resulted in a short section of the route at the southern end of the depot being BTET.

You are probably right. As I saw a 1Z99 movement from Wembley Yard to Wembley Depot (which I would have a guess as a diesel loco heading to the Depot to potentially assist in the ECS move).

1Z99 was 66548, borrowed from the front of the double headed 6V80 in Wembley Yard at c2130 to drag 3S66 through the isolated section. This was unfortunately delayed en route to the stock by a separate signalling fault, which may have proved the final straw re cancellation.

Not the Modern Thrusting Dynamic Railway’s finest hour, I’m afraid.

 

[Bill57p9]

Come to think of it, Waterloo-West London Junction (Clapham)-Latchmere Junction-Kensington Olympia-West London Junction (Willesden)-WCML. I am trying to recall whether there is an electrification gap between the third rail and overhead. And whether GBRf’s 92s are still dual voltage equipped.

Not CS, but I do remember the Night Riviera taking that route (then down the Acton Bank) in the early 90s to connect to/from Eurostar.

Anyway, I’ll put my crayons away.

 

[BRX]

And whether GBRf’s 92s are still dual voltage equipped.

I think they basically are. Occasionally they run between Dollands Moor & Wembley on third rail, usually just light engine. There are a couple that are mostly dedicated to tunnel work though, so whether the same would apply to all the ones used on the sleeper I'm not sure.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Best thing is to look at https://www.openrailwaymap.org/ and trace the lines out of Kings Cross. You'll quickly see how limited the options are, and that's before considering any operational limits like needing electrification.
There are no chords off the ECML that face the right direction until Peterborough and that 1) is unelectrified 2) still doesn't get you to Birmingham International.

Reversal shoulnt be an issue - sleepers from Euston do so to get to the ECML
.
Either using the North London incline or the connection to the Goblin at Harringay (both electrified). But they are only useful if the block is bettween Euston and Camden or Willesden respectively.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Apr 2026 ==

Come to think of it, Waterloo-West London Junction (Clapham)-Latchmere Junction-Kensington Olympia-West London Junction (Willesden)-WCML. I am trying to recall whether there is an electrification gap between the third rail and overhead. And whether GBRf’s 92s are still dual voltage equipped.

There is no gap. The Shepherds Lane curve was put in specifically to allow ECS Eurostars to get between North Pole depot and Waterloo - and if course had to be electrified to serve that purpose.

 

[Bill57p9]

There is no gap. The Shepherds Lane curve was put in specifically to allow ECS Eurostars to get between North Pole depot and Waterloo - and if course had to be electrified to serve that purpose.

I was thinking of the northern end but said the wrong thing. I meant between the North Pole and WCML

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I was thinking of the northern end but said the wrong thing. I meant between the North Pole and WCML

It's juiced; the Southern service from East Croydon to Watford Junction demonstrates that.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I was thinking of the northern end but said the wrong thing. I meant between the North Pole and WCML

Southerns services use that link

 

[Steve Harris]

Reversal shoulnt be an issue - sleepers from Euston do so to get to the ECML
.
Either using the North London incline or the connection to the Goblin at Harringay (both electrified). But they are only useful if the block is bettween Euston and Camden or Willesden respectively.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Apr 2026 ==

I think you will find the point being made was that there shouldn't be a reversal during the actual service (rather than ECS moves*) as there really isn't enough 92's /suitable loco's to facilitate it. (ie top and tail).

*Of course when the ECS moves happen a loco is released when the actual service departs allowing the loco to be used on the following ECS service etc.

 

[zwk500]

I was thinking of the northern end but said the wrong thing. I meant between the North Pole and WCML

Theres an overlap of third rail and overhead between thr A40 and North Pole Jn that can (subject to TOC policy) support changeover on the move.

 

[BRX]

I think you will find the point being made was that there shouldn't be a reversal during the actual service (rather than ECS moves*) as there really isn't enough 92's /suitable loco's to facilitate it. (ie top and tail).

It's what happens at Wembley yard when the sleeper leaves from Euston but is diverted via ECML.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I think you will find the point being made was that there shouldn't be a reversal during the actual service (rather than ECS moves*) as there really isn't enough 92's /suitable loco's to facilitate it. (ie top and tail).

But any CS service to/ from Euston via the ECML does just that. It runs top and tail ECS into Euston and, in passenger service, back to Wembley where the loco at the country end is detached and the train runs, gaving reversed, via the North London Line to join the ECML in the Holloway area.
It would likewise be possible for a train to top and tail out of Kings Cross, detach the country end loco in the Finsbury Park area, reverse, and then run via the North London Line to join the WCML.
As I said, only useful if Euston is closed but the WCML is ooen beyond Willesden.

 

[zwk500]

Notwithstanding electrification/platform length(s)/route clearance/route knowledge/traction knowledge…..

Paddington-Oxford-Banbury-Leamington Spa-Coventry-Birmingham International.

The ECS would need 2 reversals (1 at Kensal Green Loop or Wembley Central to get out of Wembley Depot, then 1 at Acton ML P3/Ealing Broadway/Hanwell Bridge loop to get into Paddington).
Not impossible by any stretch, but certainly more awkward.

It would likewise be possible for a train to top and tail out of Kings Cross, detach the country end loco in the Finsbury Park area, reverse, and then run via the North London Line to join the WCML.

the two locations the train could reverse are Copenhagen Jn for the North London Incline, where detaching the country end loco would cause a lot of issues, and Harringay/Ferme Park area, where the only passenger rated line would be the Harringay Park Curve to Gospel Oak. I dont think the curve is electrified. Harringay Flyover is not passenger rated (although Goods Line Authority could be issued, as presumably happens for the use of Wembley Yard).

As I said, only useful if Euston is closed but the WCML is ooen beyond Willesden.

This isnt that uncommon, as its usually possible to keep 2 of the 4 tracks open. However, at what point does it become better for everybody to just run direct from Wembley depot to Watford Junction?

Theres also the matter of getting from Birmingham International to the ECML - even discounting the need for non-electric traction and then longer time take to do the loop of Aston and Soho Jns, you still need engineering works to be left clear of a route (via Leicester or Derby) to get the train through.

 

[Steve Harris]

But any CS service to/ from Euston via the ECML does just that. It runs top and tail ECS into Euston and, in passenger service, back to Wembley where the loco at the country end is detached and the train runs, gaving reversed, via the North London Line to join the ECML in the Holloway area.

As I said, only useful if Euston is closed but the WCML is ooen beyond Willesden.

It's what happens at Wembley yard when the sleeper leaves from Euston but is diverted via ECML.

Yes BUT the extra loco required to run the services to Wembley yard on the first northbound service can also be used on the second service. It wouldn't be possible if that "extra" loco has to run to somewhere like Birmingham, as it wouldn't get back to London in time for the second service !!! (And I'm sure your both well aware that was the point I was making).

Afterall, this nonsense discussion started because someone suggested that Birmingham should still be served when the service started from King's Cross (during the WCML engineering works).

 

[DelW]

the two locations the train could reverse are Copenhagen Jn for the North London Incline, where detaching the country end loco would cause a lot of issues, and Harringay/Ferme Park area, where the only passenger rated line would be the Harringay Park Curve to Gospel Oak. I dont think the curve is electrified. Harringay Flyover is not passenger rated (although Goods Line Authority could be issued, as presumably happens for the use of Wembley Yard).

The Harringay curve was due to be electrified in 2018 with the rest of Gospel Oak to Barking, so I assume that was indeed done. Not that that makes it a likely route for the sleeper of course.

 

[Bald Rick]

The Harringay curve was due to be electrified in 2018 with the rest of Gospel Oak to Barking, so I assume that was indeed done. Not that that makes it a likely route for the sleeper of course.

It was indeed done.

 

[zwk500]

The Harringay curve was due to be electrified in 2018 with the rest of Gospel Oak to Barking, so I assume that was indeed done. Not that that makes it a likely route for the sleeper of course.

It was indeed done.

I stand corrected, and relieved!

 

[CW2]

Perth to Inverness is currently blocked, so 1M16 departing early from Inverness and running via Aberdeen tonight.

 

[Chorley Cake]

Perth to Inverness is currently blocked, so 1M16 departing early from Inverness and running via Aberdeen tonight.

Do you know what’s happened ? Something in the Pitlochry area I think.

 

[hexagon789]

Do you know what’s happened ? Something in the Pitlochry area I think.

Just being reported as a track defect between Dunkeld & Birnam and Pitlochry.

 

[TheWierdOne]

Perth to Inverness is currently blocked, so 1M16 departing early from Inverness and running via Aberdeen tonight.

If a passenger is unable to get to Inverness in time for the earlier departure what’s the procedure? Would they get taxied down to the central belt to meet one or other of the sleepers or put up in a hotel with a full refund and travel the next day?

 

[CW2]

If a passenger is unable to get to Inverness in time for the earlier departure what’s the procedure? Would they get taxied down to the central belt to meet one or other of the sleepers or put up in a hotel with a full refund and travel the next day?

Caledonian Sleeper are usually pretty proactive in those circumstances. They either: 1) arrange road transport to Perth / Edinburgh; or 2) offer to rebook to a later date; or 3) offer a full refund.

In some circumstances they might cover overnight accommodation and validate daytime travel with other operators for the following day, but the circumstances would have to be exceptional ( i.e. a convincing reason why you couldn't use the road transport provided).

 

[InvHst]

Sinkhole discovered

 

[TheLancsNinja]

Down Highlander has taken the Highland Main Line, so looks like they resolved the sinkhole or have at least got a temporary fix sorted until bigger works can be scheduled

 

[CW2]

Tonight's 1M16 ex Invert is 66789 (in retro BR livery) + 73968. Driver confirmed the 73/9 is providing ETS only. Apparently this particular specimen is "a bit temperamental".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Apr 2026 ==

Tonight's 1M16 ex Invert is 66789 (in retro BR livery) + 73968. Driver confirmed the 73/9 is providing ETS only. Apparently this particular specimen is "a bit temperamental".

For "Invert" read "Inverness" (unless I have got that upside down).

 

[Kite159]

Isn't that usually the case when the sleeper is hauled by a 66+73. The 66 doing all the work with the 73 just there to provide power to the coaches?