Caledonian Sleeper

[Ellwill]

On the occasion I head up into Fife to visit family I generally prefer travelling by day with LNER in first than using Caledonian. Highland arrives far too early in the morning and Lowland necessitates changing at Waverley. Pricing is also a major gripe with classic rooms on the Lowland typically asking about £50 more than an Advance 1st without the benefit of a complimentary catering offer...

 

[Peter C]

I've just seen this from BBC News (translated from Scottish Gaelic to English by Google):

Caledonian Sleeper gu Birmingham

Bidh seirbheis trèana oidhche a' Chaledonian Sleeper a' frithealadh air Birmingham bhon ath-bhliadhna.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Caledonian Sleeper night train service will serve Birmingham from next year.

The company said this was the biggest change to the service's timetable in 30 years.

The Caledonian Sleeper is owned by the Scottish Government .

From January, services between Inverness, Aberdeen and Fort William in the north and London in the south will visit Birmingham, in central England.

All central stops, including Glasgow and Edinburgh, will still be served by the trains, which will also visit Birmingham International Station.

Apologies if this has already been mentioned!


-Peter

 

[alistairlees]

I've just seen this from BBC News (translated from Scottish Gaelic to English by Google):

Caledonian Sleeper gu Birmingham

Bidh seirbheis trèana oidhche a' Chaledonian Sleeper a' frithealadh air Birmingham bhon ath-bhliadhna.

www.bbc.co.uk

Apologies if this has already been mentioned!


-Peter

Indeed. It has been silently live for a day.

 

[Bill57p9]

I've just seen this from BBC News (translated from Scottish Gaelic to English by Google):

Caledonian Sleeper gu Birmingham

Bidh seirbheis trèana oidhche a' Chaledonian Sleeper a' frithealadh air Birmingham bhon ath-bhliadhna.

www.bbc.co.uk

Apologies if this has already been mentioned!


-Peter

It has been mentioned buried earlier in the thread.
The schedules have been loaded into TRUST and are showing in RTT.
Northbound Highlander will depart Birmingham International at 2242, southbound arrive 0620. Scheduled to then avoid Birmingham New Street.
The Lowlander is unchanged.

 

[JamesT]

I've just seen this from BBC News (translated from Scottish Gaelic to English by Google):

Caledonian Sleeper gu Birmingham

Bidh seirbheis trèana oidhche a' Chaledonian Sleeper a' frithealadh air Birmingham bhon ath-bhliadhna.

www.bbc.co.uk

Apologies if this has already been mentioned!


-Peter

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crl51yj5pp1o Is the article from the English version of the BBC website.

 

[reastreetmetro]

The Caledonian Sleeper will link Scotland with Birmingham from January in the biggest timetable change in 30 years, according to the overnight train's operators.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crl51yj5pp1o.amp

Rather exciting new opportunity for us Brummies to travel on the sleeper.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Caledonian Sleeper will link Scotland with Birmingham from January in the biggest timetable change in 30 years, according to the overnight train's operators.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crl51yj5pp1o.amp

Rather exciting new opportunity for us Brummies to travel on the sleeper.

Handy for a lot of places, including Milton Keynes/Rugby and even the North West where it provides a more civilised boarding/alighting time than Crewe but at a far lower cost and time penalty than going all the way to Euston first.

 

[Davester50]

Don't forget that the Aberdeen portion serves plenty of destinations other than Aberdeen...

Quite, the civilised parts of the country, and then Fife.
Although I've basically given up using the Sleeper from Dundee after giving the new stock a fair go, I just don't get as good a sleep on the new cars, St Andrews, Dundee and Aberdeen are large enough to justify the portion.
It's the lowlander which is more on a shoogly peg with the ever later and earlier services to Edinburgh.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's the lowlander which is more on a shoogly peg with the ever later and earlier services to Edinburgh.

It will be interesting to see if the new later LNER services have any impact on loadings. I think HS2 could kill it if ever built in full (ha!) but it'll be safe until then bar serious cost cutting just making the subsidy non-viable (e.g. in a Reform Government scenario or Scottish independence).

 

[Davester50]

It will be interesting to see if the new later LNER services have any impact on loadings.

Yes, Although I feel Edinburgh will always be a bigger tourist draw than Glasgow.

I think HS2 could kill it if ever built in full (ha!)

Well yes.

The Birmingham stop makes sense, as it's not the first time I woke up and was in the West Midlands. It's another market to open at little cost to CS.
Is it going to be more of an origin or destination though?

 

[rower40]

Another consequence of the current arrangement is that if you want to take a bicycle to Fort William, you have to get up in the middle of the night to move it, even if you're travelling in a sleeper berth.

You're not a real cyclist unless you take your bike to bed with you...

 

[Oxfordblues]

I can see the forthcoming 22:42 from Birmingham International to the Highlands being very popular. A night out in the pubs of Digbeth, then waking-up on Rannoch Moor!

 

[Mojo]

A number of off-topic posts concerning domestic flights have been split to a new thread which can be found here
Companies banning domestic flights for staff travel

Please keep this thread relevant as it it very hard to find out information relating to today's big news - the addition of a new stop at Birmingham Int'l.

 

[Cross City]

Just for clarification. The services stopping at BHI won't be calling at Glasgow or Edinburgh? As they don't appear to be purchasable from BHI unlike Aberdeen, Fort William or Inverness.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just for clarification. The services stopping at BHI won't be calling at Glasgow or Edinburgh?

Not for passenger purposes, though if you did want to travel to Glasgow you could book to Dalmuir and travel back, or Stirling for Edinburgh. (I don't know if the doors are all released at Glasgow Queen St on the Highlander, it does call for boarding towards FW but I don't know if it's local door only).

 

[Cross City]

Not for passenger purposes, though if you did want to travel to Glasgow you could book to Dalmuir and travel back. (I don't know if the doors are all released at Glasgow Queen St on the Highlander, it does call for boarding towards FW but I don't know if it's local door only).

Thanks.

Seems a bit of a missed opportunity to either not put a stop in or have the Lowlander stop at BHI too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Seems a bit of a missed opportunity to either not put a stop in or have the Lowlander stop at BHI too.

The Lowlander would stop at very unsocial times if it did.

The FW portion actually serves both Glasgow (for local passengers towards FW) and Edinburgh (for the shunt). You might get away with getting off at Glasgow if all doors are released (I don't know if they are) or failing that go to Dalmuir and back. At Edinburgh you'd be able to alight as the coach change happens there (if you did want to try it book to Dalmuir), but it's at 4am and you might have trouble getting out of the station at that time.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Not for passenger purposes, though if you did want to travel to Glasgow you could book to Dalmuir and travel back, or Stirling for Edinburgh. (I don't know if the doors are all released at Glasgow Queen St on the Highlander, it does call for boarding towards FW but I don't know if it's local door only).

Is it not the case that if it’s running late and nobody has booked to get on at Queen Street it can be diverted and try to recover time? If so, booking to Dalmuir and hoping to bale at GQS might be a bit risky

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it not the case that if it’s running late and nobody has booked to get on at Queen Street it can be diverted and try to recover time? If so, booking to Dalmuir and hoping to bale at GQS might be a bit risky

It's not that risky because Dalmuir and back would only take about half an hour.

 

[185143]

Is it not the case that if it’s running late and nobody has booked to get on at Queen Street it can be diverted and try to recover time? If so, booking to Dalmuir and hoping to bale at GQS might be a bit risky

Yes, and in my experience it often is.

Last time I was on the Fort William, a couple of seated passengers were intending to alight at Queen Street. The crew were aware and had no issue with it... until we went down the E-G!

They were told to alight at Dalmuir and make their way back.

 

[geoffk]

When I used the Fort William sleeper in 2012, there was a stop at Westerton at 05.55, evidently with connections to/from Central Low Level.

 

[Peter C]

Indeed. It has been silently live for a day.

It has been mentioned buried earlier in the thread.
The schedules have been loaded into TRUST and are showing in RTT.
Northbound Highlander will depart Birmingham International at 2242, southbound arrive 0620. Scheduled to then avoid Birmingham New Street.
The Lowlander is unchanged.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crl51yj5pp1o Is the article from the English version of the BBC website.

Thanks all - I did look but couldn't see anything! Thanks for the info.

-Peter

 

[Bill57p9]

When I used the Fort William sleeper in 2012, there was a stop at Westerton at 05.55, evidently with connections to/from Central Low Level.

That was when the sleeper was scheduled to run via the E&G, dating from before the reopening of the Airdrie to Bathgate line in 2010. The Westerton stop was indeed to pick up passengers connecting from Glasgow, I believe Queen Street.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When I used the Fort William sleeper in 2012, there was a stop at Westerton at 05.55, evidently with connections to/from Central Low Level.

This was before it actually called there and was mostly aimed at people joining it to go to Fort William as day passengers. Dalmuir isn't very far though!

 

[Bikeman78]

Is it not the case that if it’s running late and nobody has booked to get on at Queen Street it can be diverted and try to recover time? If so, booking to Dalmuir and hoping to bale at GQS might be a bit risky

First I've heard of that. It's a normal service train from Edinburgh to Fort William isn't it? I turned up at Queen Street and got on. There were plenty of free seats.

 

[quantinghome]

The Birmingham stop makes sense, as it's not the first time I woke up and was in the West Midlands. It's another market to open at little cost to CS.
Is it going to be more of an origin or destination though?

I'm imagining all those folk in the Highlands fed up with their drab surroundings, who can now look forward to getting away from it all with an overnight trip to Solihull...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm imagining all those folk in the Highlands fed up with their drab surroundings, who can now look forward to getting away from it all with an overnight trip to Solihull...

You jest, but they might well want to visit one of the major exhibitions at the NEC, either for personal or work reasons.

I suspect it'll be more of an origin than a destination though.

 

[SuspectUsual]

First I've heard of that. It's a normal service train from Edinburgh to Fort William isn't it? I turned up at Queen Street and got on. There were plenty of free seats.

Realtime Trains | 1Y11 2101 London Euston to Fort William | 29/09/2025

Real-time train running information for 1Y11 2101 departure from London Euston to Fort William on 29/09/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This is Sunday night's down Fort Bill - disappears off RTT between Newbridge Junction and Westerton and picks up 18 minutes by doing so. Yes, it is a normal service train from GQS but its (i) pick up only and (ii) compulsory reservation; so if nobody books to get on at Queen Street there is no requirement to go that way. (What I don't know is how long before scheduled departure time reservations close)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Realtime Trains | 1Y11 2101 London Euston to Fort William | 29/09/2025

Real-time train running information for 1Y11 2101 departure from London Euston to Fort William on 29/09/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This is Sunday night's down Fort Bill - disappears off RTT between Newbridge Junction and Westerton and picks up 18 minutes by doing so. Yes, it is a normal service train from GQS but its (i) pick up only and (ii) compulsory reservation; so if nobody books to get on at Queen Street there is no requirement to go that way. (What I don't know is how long before scheduled departure time reservations close)

Have they resolved the issue where people were blocked from making reservations for local journeys because they didn't want them stopping tickets being sold for the overnight trip? Or is that still an issue? If it is they can't really be saying it's compulsory reservation.

 

[Davester50]

You jest, but they might well want to visit one of the major exhibitions at the NEC, either for personal or work reasons.

I suspect it'll be more of an origin than a destination though.

Not just that. There's been no sleeper in that part of the world for decades, so market penetration in a new location will be harder than existing north to south users gaining another option.