Caledonian Sleeper

[Gonzoiku]

Well... if I was going to get delayed for several hours, I'd much rather it be on the Sleeper than an ordinary train - at least I'd be able to lie down comfortably...

As would I, but...
A train fault (in Mark 3 days) caused the northbound Highlander to be curtailed at Edinburgh, where we were permitted to sleep on until 6am, whereupon we were decanted into taxis for the remaining journey. We were explicitly not permitted back on the train (which was heading for Inverness, the stabling point back then) as the crew were out of hours, which is of course the inevitable corollary of several hours' delay.

GZ

 

[chalky80]

I'm currently on board the Northbound lowlander, running 60+ late which is kind of a know risk. What's intrigued me is the brief explanation from the host was the delay being caused by waiting for crew exchange from the southbound lowlander at Preston (i.e in middle of the night).

I knew there was a crew rest/change at Preston but it seems a rather risky dependency to require the opposite trains to meet. Is this normal working practice?

Having now watched a slow plodding 66 trundle past on the fast line at Carstairs, I sense I'm not making my 8am meeting.

From RTT I'd guess the southbound had coupling trouble at Carstairs.

 

[Gonzoiku]

I knew there was a crew rest/change at Preston but it seems a rather risky dependency to require the opposite trains to meet. Is this normal working practice?

Yes, normal for the sleeper crews. If not done that way, there would be a need for drivers with route knowledge for the entire route, and passed for the unusual traction used on the sleeper who would furthermore end up spending the day away from base. And probably drivers plural for each train, so as not to run out of hours, I guess.

GZ

 

[JamieL]

Seems to have made up some time - Glasgow and Edinburgh arrivals are slated for 0803 and 0804 respectively.

 

[RGM654]

Yes, normal for the sleeper crews. If not done that way, there would be a need for drivers with route knowledge for the entire route, and passed for the unusual traction used on the sleeper who would furthermore end up spending the day away from base. And probably drivers plural for each train, so as not to run out of hours, I guess.

GZ

What happens if the train going one way is severely delayed? Does the other one have to wait? And what if one train is cancelled?

 

[DelW]

What happens if the train going one way is severely delayed? Does the other one have to wait? And what if one train is cancelled?

It's not unique to the sleeper, the Heart of Wales is worked the same way with crews swapping over at Llandrindod or (not for much longer) Llanwtryd.

If one train is late, the other has to wait at the crossing point until it arrives (occasionally it has been possible to switch to the other crossing point).

If one train is cancelled, the other runs to the crossing point then has to return to its origin. Through passengers have wait for buses or taxis to be called out. Last autumn TfW were outstationing a minibus on daily standby at Llanwrtyd.

There are probably other lines that work similarly.

 

[Christmas]

The totem interactive station information screen has been removed from Ardlui without trace. Is it being repaired or are they all being removed?

 

[GordonT]

It's not unique to the sleeper, the Heart of Wales is worked the same way with crews swapping over at Llandrindod or (not for much longer) Llanwtryd.

If one train is late, the other has to wait at the crossing point until it arrives (occasionally it has been possible to switch to the other crossing point).

If one train is cancelled, the other runs to the crossing point then has to return to its origin. Through passengers have wait for buses or taxis to be called out. Last autumn TfW were outstationing a minibus on daily standby at Llanwrtyd.

There are probably other lines that work similarly.

The West Highland Line relies on crews exchanging trains for the same reason.

 

[paul1609]

The totem interactive station information screen has been removed from Ardlui without trace. Is it being repaired or are they all being removed?

I think Ardlui is the second least used station on the Glasgow to Fort William route (after Roy Bridge), I imagine it rarely if ever gets a sleeper passenger.

 

[johnr57]

I think Ardlui is the second least used station on the Glasgow to Fort William route (after Roy Bridge), I imagine it rarely if ever gets a sleeper passenger.

Sorry should have paid attention when I read this!

 

[sh24]

Which is the least used?

Roy Bridge - as mentioned in the post you quoted.

 

[johnr57]

Roy Bridge - as mentioned in the post you quoted.

Just a bit slow at the back of the class

 

[Deepgreen]

It's not unique to the sleeper, the Heart of Wales is worked the same way with crews swapping over at Llandrindod or (not for much longer) Llanwtryd.

If one train is late, the other has to wait at the crossing point until it arrives (occasionally it has been possible to switch to the other crossing point).

If one train is cancelled, the other runs to the crossing point then has to return to its origin. Through passengers have wait for buses or taxis to be called out. Last autumn TfW were outstationing a minibus on daily standby at Llanwrtyd.

There are probably other lines that work similarly.

While the crew exchange regime may work OK with other services, when applied to the single sleeper in each direction, with understandably slow and 'delicate' passengers, it seems bizarre that the cancellation of the train in one direction automatically leads to the cancellation of the other, with all the logistical issues that must ensue to take care of the passengers. I understand the operational reasons but the explanation to, for example, northbound passengers at Preston, that 'the southbound train has been cancelled so we are also cancelling yours' is a hard reason to expect passengers to swallow.

 

[Morayshire]

The totem interactive station information screen has been removed from Ardlui without trace. Is it being repaired or are they all being removed?

If you are meaning the large LCD screen which seemed to do nothing but cycle through an advert for the sleeper non stop, then the one at Arbroath has gone. The hole for its plinth has been backfilled in with concrete as well.

 

[Statto]

The Lowlander is timed for 7 hours 25 minutes, the driver would have put up in a hotel should they drive the whole route, with the crew changes at Preston the driver can sleep in their own bed once the shift is finished, without the extra expence of the TOC putting them up in a hotel.

 

[Christmas]

If you are meaning the large LCD screen which seemed to do nothing but cycle through an advert for the sleeper non stop, then the one at Arbroath has gone. The hole for its plinth has been backfilled in with concrete as well.

Another ridiculous waste of money. There was a button on it to speak to someone or for audible information to be relayed but yes, largely just an expensive screen.

Someone should be held accountable for their removal if they were working without issue.

 

[Mike395]

The other thing those screens housed was a decent wifi hotspot - particularly useful at places like Corrour so sad if that's gone.

 

[185143]

The other thing those screens housed was a decent wifi hotspot - particularly useful at places like Corrour so sad if that's gone.

Very much so. I was pleasantly surprised at Roy Bridge to find that, while the screen didn't work, the WiFi did.

 

[Christmas]

The Sleeper information screens have been removed from all stations on the West Highlands line, Dumbarton Central and Dalmuir. What a disgraceful move.

The cost cutting from Scottish Rail Holdings and Transport Scotland is disgusting and it's the public purse that's paying for the contractors to remove what should have been a benefit for passengers.

 

[paul1609]

I suspect that a lot of the intermediate stations dont actually have any sleeper passengers. I used Garelochead on and off over 30 years and in that time I never saw another person join or alight from the sleeper and that includes joining the down sleeper for hillwalking trips in the seats. In recent years I used to wait in the pub until the train was 20 mins or so away, so the information screens were never any use to me. I used to use Dalmuir occasionally to be picked up for one of the dry docks in Ayrshire or the South Clyde and never saw another passenger there either although at various times there were crew changes there.
i think if you were matching the stopping pattern to sleeper demand without any operational constraints the stopping pattern of the sleeper would be something on the lines of Dumbarton C, Helensburgh U, Arrocher & T, Crianlarich, Tyndrum U, Bridge of Orchy, Rannoch, Courour, Spean Bridge, Fort William.

 

[HighlandStorm]

As others have mentioned, very retrograde step to remove these as at quite a few stations they provided the only connectivity. So they benefited more than just sleeper passengers. Indicative of how stupid it is having the sleeper siloed apart from ScotRail when under the same publicly owned holding entity.

Wonder how many years of running costs has been spend to remove them, let alone the initial capital cost.

More worryingly, does it suggest the Fort William sleeper will not be around much longer? Axing Fort William and Aberdeen highlander portions would substantially simplify operations and make managing the cracking issue and stock availability easier. While allowing ScotGov to point out the Highlander still runs!

Can Inverness take a slightly longer sleeper?

 

[alistairlees]

More worryingly, does it suggest the Fort William sleeper will not be around much longer?

No

 

[Bletchleyite]

No

FW is increasingly popular. If they were going to simplify by axing a portion I'm pretty sure it'd be Aberdeen, whose popularity has reduced a lot.

 

[Samsanbor]

The Sleeper information screens have been removed from all stations on the West Highlands line, Dumbarton Central and Dalmuir. What a disgraceful move.

The cost cutting from Scottish Rail Holdings and Transport Scotland is disgusting and it's the public purse that's paying for the contractors to remove what should have been a benefit for passengers.

What are the benefit for passengers of those totems?
They are only essentially an electronic advert device, like those in popular squares in big cities.
All the relevant information of all operators calling at locations are displayed on the station's screens anyway.
They are 24hrs on, 7 days over 7, wasting electricity, maintenance's costs, cleaning, etc ...and who pays for that?
For sure will cost less to the taxpayer a one off removal than a prolonged maintenance.

 

[sturmey_archer]

The totems must have a high up-front cost. Is it common for this kind of equipment to be leased instead, or on some sort of service contract? Often wi-fi hotspots have third party support contracts, so it seems plausible. The provider would then be obliged to remove the kit if someone decided to stop paying the monthly fee.

 

[ajrm]

The Sleeper information screens have been removed from all stations on the West Highlands line, Dumbarton Central and Dalmuir. What a disgraceful move.

The cost cutting from Scottish Rail Holdings and Transport Scotland is disgusting and it's the public purse that's paying for the contractors to remove what should have been a benefit for passengers.

It would be interesting to know where the idea came from in the first place when Serco won the franchise: suggested by the bidder, or suggested by TS? Ditto the now-closed lounges.

 

[Deepgreen]

What are the benefit for passengers of those totems?
They are only essentially an electronic advert device, like those in popular squares in big cities.
All the relevant information of all operators calling at locations are displayed on the station's screens anyway.
They are 24hrs on, 7 days over 7, wasting electricity, maintenance's costs, cleaning, etc ...and who pays for that?
For sure will cost less to the taxpayer a one off removal than a prolonged maintenance.

As has been mentioned several times, they provided wi-fi hotspots for all users of the stations. Given that the screen elements hadn't worked for some time, I imagine maintenance had ceased anyway, so that cost was already gone.

 

[boabt]

Email just received from Caledonian Sleeper - Caledonian Sleeper lounges at Leuchars, Dundee and Perth station are closing permanently this week.

Noticed that today. It's fair enough, Dundee is a small station and having a lounge that would be used by just a few people for a tiny part of the day seemed daft.

I also saw that they removed the Caledonian Sleeper interactive machine in Arbroath last week.

 

[Deepgreen]

Noticed that today. It's fair enough, Dundee is a small station and having a lounge that would be used by just a few people for a tiny part of the day seemed daft.

I also saw that they removed the Caledonian Sleeper interactive machine in Arbroath last week.

I wonder what the business case was for the lounge at Dundee. I find it hard to imagine it being justified on usage, so what else could drive it?

 

[Carntyne]

I wonder what the business case was for the lounge at Dundee. I find it hard to imagine it being justified on usage, so what else could drive it?

The excitement of spending taxpayers money on stuff that isn't needed is probably the driver behind it.