Caledonian Sleeper

[Steve Harris]

Aberdeen arrival time suddenly 'amended' as well.

Ditto Fort William !

 

[henryb]

So we can:

Slag them off for running the Highlander.

Slag them off for cancelling the Lowlander.

They just can't win, can they?

I would argue (from someone that was on it) that they made the right call running it - they got passsengers to their destination (albeit with delay) and they got a full refund.

 

[paninaro]

I would argue (from someone that was on it) that they made the right call running it - they got passsengers to their destination (albeit with delay) and they got a full refund.

I wasn't on it but do use the Sleeper and these are my thoughts exactly. I'd rather sleep on the train and get to my destination, albeit late, than any combination of cancellation, taxis, minibuses, early day time trains the next day etc.

 

[sh24]

I wasn't on it but do use the Sleeper and these are my thoughts exactly. I'd rather sleep on the train and get to my destination, albeit late, than any combination of cancellation, taxis, minibuses, early day time trains the next day etc.

exactly. Better late than scrabbling around for a hotel followed by an early morning train.

 

[JamieL]

Likewise. As a regular user, I would much rather the service ran late than just cancelled.

 

[Class15]

I would argue (from someone that was on it) that they made the right call running it - they got passsengers to their destination (albeit with delay) and they got a full refund.

I wasn't on it but do use the Sleeper and these are my thoughts exactly. I'd rather sleep on the train and get to my destination, albeit late, than any combination of cancellation, taxis, minibuses, early day time trains the next day etc.

I agree. I’d much, much rather arrive at Euston at 11:30 than be cancelled. Allows me a decent sleep too!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Feb 2025 ==

exactly. Better late than scrabbling around for a hotel followed by an early morning train.

Likewise. As a regular user, I would much rather the service ran late than just cancelled.

Me too.

 

[InvHst]

Id probably bet as well that they would have tried to make sure the others ran as the on train staff needed to get back to there home depot

 

[PG]

Happens all too often unfortunately.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Feb 2025 ==

Aberdeen arrival time suddenly 'amended' as well. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:60050/2025-02-22/detailed#allox_id=0

So passengers guests at all the intermediate stations get Delay Repay but Aberdeen passengers guests don't??
140mins late at Stonehave then magically 5mins late at Aberdeen - Thats blatant!!

 

[JamieL]

So passengers guests at all the intermediate stations get Delay Repay but Aberdeen passengers guests don't??
140mins late at Stonehave then magically 5mins late at Aberdeen - Thats blatant!!

Surely the time of the terminal destination station was just corrected to reflect the actual arrival? If it was changed this morning, then delay repay wouldn't be affected?

 

[Scotrail84]

Surely the time of the terminal destination station was just corrected to reflect the actual arrival? If it was changed this morning, then delay repay wouldn't be affected?

New paths were inputed/created for the Aberdeen and Fort William services as they technically start at Edinburgh, the Inverness time couldn't be amended because its a through service. As the poster says, it looks blatant but may not be how delay repay works.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Feb 2025 ==

Arrival times already amended tomorrow for most services.

 

[JamieL]

Arrival times already amended tomorrow for most services.

And very clearly publicised on the website since at least this morning.

 

[greatkingrat]

New paths were inputed/created for the Aberdeen and Fort William services as they technically start at Edinburgh, the Inverness time couldn't be amended because its a through service. As the poster says, it looks blatant but may not be how delay repay works.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Feb 2025 ==

Arrival times already amended tomorrow for most services.

It's not a new path though, all the intermediate times are unchanged, only the final arrival time at the terminus

 

[Scotrail84]

It's not a new path though, all the intermediate times are unchanged, only the final arrival time at the terminus

It is a new path though, the originals were cancelled and new ones inputed with an amended arrival time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Feb 2025 ==

And very clearly publicised on the website since at least this morning.

Picking and choosing when to amend times it seems.

 

[Class15]

It is a new path though, the originals were cancelled and new ones inputed with an amended arrival time.

No it’s not, it’s a new schedule, but if it shares the timings with another schedule, it’s the same path.

 

[Scotrail84]

No it’s not, it’s a new schedule, but if it shares the timings with another schedule, it’s the same path.

I think you knew what I meant though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2025 ==

FTW Southbound 70+ late. Diverting via Falkirk High to make up time.

 

[enginedin]

FTW douthbound 70+ late. Diverting via E+G.

this is what many people seem pretty confused about - you claim to not have anything against the Sleeper, but what's the point of giving service-by-servuce updates when the Sleeper is late? You don't do it for Scotrail, or LNER, or Avanti West Coast, or Cross Country. I guess many people are interested why you care so much about publicising what you see as the shortcomings of Caledonian Sleeper specifically.

It's also forum etiquette not to use short codes for stations, or jargon like E+G. It might have been used elsewhere in this thread, but it's 588 pages long so it's not reasonable for people not familiar with these acronyms to flick back through all these posts to find out what they mean.

 

[GordonT]

this is what many people seem pretty confused about - you claim to not have anything against the Sleeper, but what's the point of giving service-by-servuce updates when the Sleeper is late? You don't do it for Scotrail, or LNER, or Avanti West Coast, or Cross Country.

It could be argued that it's no bad thing to be reminded that despite the marketing of hotel quality experience and the pricing of the sleeper TOC which distinguishes it from the daytime TOCs, it is not immune from disruption on a fairly regular basis regardless of whether specific instances are down to CS or are outwith their control.

 

[JamieL]

It could be argued that it's no bad thing to be reminded that despite the marketing of hotel quality experience and the pricing of the sleeper TOC which distinguishes it from the daytime TOCs, it is not immune from disruption on a fairly regular basis regardless of whether specific instances are down to CS or are outwith their control.

The issue is though, it is not giving an accurate picture. Take this morning for example. The focus of ScotRail84's discussion was of one of the trains being late to end destination - but others arrived at destinations bang on time. The Fort William portion of the Highlander passed my house at its unusual time despite flooding and surface water everywhere from yesterday's terrible weather (a yellow weather warning). Remember there are seven scheduled CS arrivals everyday it operates and so cherry-picking postings to focus on one being late is giving a false impression. Moreover, it doesn't tally with the 'lived experience'. I find the CS one of the most reliable north/south travel options - in my three years of semi-regular use I have only ever had one delay to end destination. In contrast I have have lost hours on the motorway due to a crashes/closure, have endured horrific conditions on day trains when an incident has occurred that has disrupted flow and have suffered flight cancellations.

 

[87015]

Blatant fiddling of the performance figures - which are then used as evidence of how “good” they are - should quite rightly be called out as bringing the industry into disrepute. Other operators don’t, so why are they obsessed with p-coding arrival times, and who are they getting to sign it off given the portions are to anyone’s reality the previous nights trains so should only be being p-coded before 2200 A4C not A4B.

 

[JamieL]

FTW Southbound 70+ late. Diverting via Falkirk High to make up time.

this is what many people seem pretty confused about - you claim to not have anything against the Sleeper, but what's the point of giving service-by-servuce updates when the Sleeper is late?

It is worth highlighting that he also gives quite selective information. Take his post above for example - "FTW Soundbound 70+ late". This is what that actually looked like:


So only 55 down at Edinburgh (which isn't a destination for the Highlander Sleeper, merely where it joins up). So let's see how it faired as it headed south:



Well, look at that! It arrived on time! Early in fact given the EUS arrival time had extra time baked in due to the heavy rain/flooding/Yellow weather warning in the North.

 

[styles]

4th most punctual operator according to the latest ORR stats.

Least cancellations of any operator by a country mile (0.2%, next closest is c2c at 1.4% and worst is Northern at 6.5%).

Obviously it can throw travel plans massively off if the sleeper is cancelled compared to a one-off daytime service mind.

Kinda a shame the Night Riviera is bundled up with GWR in the stats, as it means there's not really another sleeper service to compare against.

I travel by the sleeper for work and have never had a significant delay or cancellation - I think it's just more noteworthy when it does happen. In fact I regularly find it arrives early heading north.

 

[ruaival]

I travel by the sleeper for work and have never had a significant delay or cancellation - I think it's just more noteworthy when it does happen. In fact I regularly find it arrives early heading north

Back in First Scotrail days I was the Passenger Watch eyes & ears on the Sunday night Up Lowlander out of Edinburgh every week.

Just one significant delay of more than 15-20 minutes - trackside fatality in Cumbria added 3h to the journey - and several early wake up calls passing through Watford around 30 minutes before time.

Good service schedule for reliable business London arrivals.

 

[Statto]

Quite amusing that tonight's Highlander is on approach to Crewe, some 30 minutes early.

 

[leightonbd]

There is an anomaly in that users (me) like it, it is busy/ popular (I couldn’t book the trips I wanted in either Dec or early Feb), and yet vulnerable. When it goes wrong, it goes catastrophically wrong; either total canx or mammoth delays (or, more recently, your room has no shower …). When it’s good, you take it for granted.

That’s life on the sleeper!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There is an anomaly in that users (me) like it, it is busy/ popular (I couldn’t book the trips I wanted in either Dec or early Feb), and yet vulnerable. When it goes wrong, it goes catastrophically wrong; either total canx or mammoth delays (or, more recently, your room has no shower …). When it’s good, you take it for granted.

That’s life on the sleeper!

Well... if I was going to get delayed for several hours, I'd much rather it be on the Sleeper than an ordinary train - at least I'd be able to lie down comfortably...

 

[BRX]

This "Dreamsuite" concept makes the claim: "Designed to meet all UK and EU safety standards, DreamSuite™ overcomes previous concerns with lie-flat safety compliance."

It positions passengers longitudinally with direction of travel. It somehow overcomes concerns that CS apparently weren't able to.

Dreamsuite - Future Travel Studio

DreamSuite™ is an innovative flat-bed seat concept for sleeper train services.

dreamsuite.futuretravelstudio.com

DreamSuite™ is a transformative seat solution that can be implemented on existing rolling stock - avoiding the need to construct costly sleeper railway carriages and giving existing rolling stock an alternative use.

This ground-breaking seat design not only caters to overnight journeys but also has the potential to be extended to long-distance day services in Europe and globally.

The concept maximises comfort and offers commercial efficiencies and flexibility, providing customers with seating arrangements that meet their specific travel needs, be they families, wheelchair users or business travellers.

Customers will enjoy a personal and spacious seating environment with DreamSuite™ that provides a high level of comfort unprecedented in rail travel.

 

[Indigo Soup]

It somehow overcomes concerns that CS apparently weren't able to.

Or rather thinks it does. Has it actually been submitted to a regulator?

 

[Flying Snail]

This "Dreamsuite" concept makes the claim: "Designed to meet all UK and EU safety standards, DreamSuite™ overcomes previous concerns with lie-flat safety compliance."

It positions passengers longitudinally with direction of travel. It somehow overcomes concerns that CS apparently weren't able to.

No it doesn't, the seats/beds interlink with each alternating direction.

The Norwegian lie-flat seats are also bi-directional.

 

[BRX]

No it doesn't, the seats/beds interlink with each alternating direction.

The Norwegian lie-flat seats are also bi-directional.

I mean that the passengers lie parallel with the travel direction. As you say alternating beetwen head first and feet first. But this design involves sleeping passengers travelling head first which supposedly is what CS decided was not possible.

 

[JamieL]

Head (or feet) first travel would mean the cabins would need to completely reconfigured. It would mean cabins both sides of the corridor (meaning only one window accessible for viewing the scenery. Where would the ensuite go? The cabin window would be at your back.when using the bed as a chair. Etc