Caledonian Sleeper

[A S Leib]

When I used it to travel from Glasgow to Bristol for a morning meeting, I used to get the sleeper to Taunton and another train back to Bristol, in order to arrive at a sensible time.

I wonder how much custom from stops like those came from people living nearby but wanted / needed to leave the other end late in the evening. A stop at three in the morning isn't (typically) convenient for business, but if e.g. you have a meeting in Aberdeen starting at 16:00 and live in Preston without having to be do anything the following morning, the current Highlander times probably aren't terrible (if you can get back to sleep after waking up before half past four).

 

[Scotrail84]

Does anyone know what's going on with the ticketing engine on the Caledonian Sleeper website? It shows no availability on several dates if you want a return but has loads of seats/beds if you want to book each journey separately. It also has several dates where it's showing no availability on its own site but the seats are available on the Trainline (but nowhere else) and are giving sensible seat numbers if you click through enough to see them. I think their website did this previously and someone found a way round it in one of the prior 562 pages but I can't find it!
I'm tempted to book the Trainline seats as that's the best dates for me, but I'm not sure who I'd speak to in order to confirm it's definitely valid. I suspect Trainline will say it is or they wouldn't be selling it, CS will say they can't see Trainline booking details.

Contact their live chat and point out the anomaly to them, they may be able to resolve it for you.

 

[glenbogle]

No, Trainline says there's 5 tickets left, and I went to the CS website first!

Dates are 31 Jan Lon to Inverness for the Trainline issue. I think it's some other dates around then as well but I can't remember which ones I was testing it on.

The singles vs returns was on Lon to Fort William route on various dates in the last week of January, returning the first week of February, ie all in the period where they've got engineering works going on. It was happening before they introduced the 25% off for those dates as well (I've been leaving it hoping the website would fix itself)

Only running 3 services to Fort William per week January/early February. Check Journey Updates on the Cal Sleeper website.

 

[JonathanH]

Only running 3 services to Fort William per week January/early February. Check Journey Updates on the Cal Sleeper website.

Alternate days to Aberdeen and Fort William.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What's the reason for that?

 

[alistairlees]

Does anyone know what's going on with the ticketing engine on the Caledonian Sleeper website? It shows no availability on several dates if you want a return but has loads of seats/beds if you want to book each journey separately. It also has several dates where it's showing no availability on its own site but the seats are available on the Trainline (but nowhere else) and are giving sensible seat numbers if you click through enough to see them. I think their website did this previously and someone found a way round it in one of the prior 562 pages but I can't find it!
I'm tempted to book the Trainline seats as that's the best dates for me, but I'm not sure who I'd speak to in order to confirm it's definitely valid. I suspect Trainline will say it is or they wouldn't be selling it, CS will say they can't see Trainline booking details.

The issue with the Glasgow and Inverness services for a few selected dates was resolved last night. There’s still an issue with fort William seats on the dates when it alternates with Aberdeen services which will hopefully be fixed shortly.

 

[Cat Lechat]

The issue with the Glasgow and Inverness services for a few selected dates was resolved last night. There’s still an issue with fort William seats on the dates when it alternates with Aberdeen services which will hopefully be fixed shortly.

Thank you Alistair! Now I just need to decide whether I'm braving it in the seats or paying for a bed

 

[Scotrail84]

More hefty delays last night on both Lowlander services it seems. Loco issues according to Twitter. Southbound made up a lot of time but the Northbound is well down.

 

[Mordac]

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Review of a sleeper train in Norway with the airplane style pods we were told would be too unsafe.

 

[JohnMcL7]

What's happening with the Inverness portion tonight? It looks like the normal departure was cancelled and the train went to Edinburgh empty.

 

[JonathanH]

What's happening with the Inverness portion tonight? It looks like the normal departure was cancelled and the train went to Edinburgh empty.

Locomotive failure - possibly that the 73 can't supply ETS - passengers go by coach and then join the train in Edinburgh in the carriages they would have travelled in from Inverness
https://sleeper.scot/travel-updates/

Monday 18th November – Inverness to London Euston Service Alteration

We are sorry to advise that tonight’s Inverness to Euston service will start at Edinburgh Waverley. This is because of a locomotive failure.

All guests will be transported to Edinburgh via rail replacement service.

Buses will depart Inverness at approximately 22:00 and call at all intermediate stations before arriving at Edinburgh where guests will join their booked accommodation.

Guests are entitled to a 50% refund as a result of this disruption and if booked directly with us, this will be processed automatically back to the card used to make the purchase.

Please contact us on Live Chat if you have any questions.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience this will cause.

 

[JohnMcL7]

Thanks for the information

 

[Scotrail84]

Locomotive failure - possibly that the 73 can't supply ETS - passengers go by coach and then join the train in Edinburgh in the carriages they would have travelled in from Inverness
https://sleeper.scot/travel-updates/

If thats the case the train will need completely shutdown to run empty, a lot of isolations required too, then reinstated at Edinburgh. The set will also be absolutely freezing until an ETH supply is connected. External temperatures are also not favourable for dead running.

 

[JonathanH]

If thats the case the train will need completely shutdown to run empty, a lot of isolations required too, then reinstated at Edinburgh. The set will also be absolutely freezing until an ETH supply is connected. External temperatures are also not favourable for dead running.

Presumably that is why it has left Inverness at 1915 (actually 1936) rather than 2045. Nominally two hours to get it up to temperature in Edinburgh before it needs to set off for London. I note that the quoted text suggests that the coach is setting off at 2200 so passengers won't be in Edinburgh until after 0100.

 

[Scotrail84]

Presumably that is why it has left Inverness at 1915 (actually 1936) rather than 2045. Nominally two hours to get it up to temperature in Edinburgh before it needs to set off for London.

The sets are never left 'off' a supply for any longer than is necessary, engines run all day at Inverness and a shore supply is used at Clayhills. 90 emergency minutes battery power, and once they die its game over.

It will still have to wait until the 92 for the Southbound is tied up, that driver doesn't book on until around midnight IIRC.

 

[PG]

The sets are never left 'off' a supply for any longer than is necessary

Were the Mk3s the same or could they be left off?

 

[Scotrail84]

Were the Mk3s the same or could they be left off?

Mk3s didn't have to be shut down to run dead in tow, they'd just be on batteries until they ran out, however it was standard practise to move passengers from a knackered coach. Thats more often than not no longer possible due to the fact the sleeper now regularly books out the train leaving zero rooms for contingencies. Even with short formed services they book every last berth. Absolute madness given the state ion the MK5s.

More delays last night. Southbound Highlander late, Northbound Aberdeen and Fort William into delay repay territory as well. All too common now sadly.

 

[JamieL]

Mk3s didn't have to be shut down to run dead in tow, they'd just be on batteries until they ran out, however it was standard practise to move passengers from a knackered coach. Thats more often than not no longer possible due to the fact the sleeper now regularly books out the train leaving zero rooms for contingencies. Even with short formed services they book every last berth. Absolute madness given the state ion the MK5s.

More delays last night. Southbound Highlander late, Northbound Aberdeen and Fort William into delay repay territory as well. All too common now sadly.

At least we can rely on you to keep us informed on each and every delay! My last journey on the CS was Sunday night and it was on time (early into Euston infact) and as good as ever.

 

[Scotrail84]

At least we can rely on you to keep us informed on each and every delay! My last journey on the CS was Sunday night and it was on time (early into Euston infact) and as good as ever.

People are free to do their own research about the service. Since this is a sleeper discussion thread though, any delays are an appropriate topic for discussion.

 

[JamieL]

People are free to do their own research about the service. Since this is a sleeper discussion thread though, any delays are an appropriate topic for discussion.

I don't disagree but there are 5 departures every evening and 5 arrivals every morning, so comments about one or two delays aren't really that representative or useful IMHO. The reasons behind a delay are of course of interest.

Everyone has their own view of course but as someone who commutes weekly, the CS is by far the least hectic, most time efficient and a very reliable way to travel. Alongside a blend of travelling via day train, car and flying, the CS is a great service to have, especially in Winter.

 

[Scotrail84]

I don't disagree but there are 5 departures every evening and 5 arrivals every morning, so comments about one or two delays aren't really that representative or useful IMHO. The reasons behind a delay are of course of interest.

Everyone has their own view of course but as someone who commutes weekly, the CS is by far the least hectic, most time efficient and a very reliable way to travel. Alongside a blend of travelling via day train, car and flying, the CS is a great service to have, especially in Winter.

This morning the NB Aberdeen was late due to a power failure affecting signals between Burntisland and Kirkcaldy.

No idea why the FTW was late. An educated guess would be the locos being late up from Craigentinny for some reason.

 

[Butts]

At least we can rely on you to keep us informed on each and every delay! My last journey on the CS was Sunday night and it was on time (early into Euston infact) and as good as ever.

What are the actual punctuality figures for the CS ?

 

[JamieL]

What are the actual punctuality figures for the CS ?

In my experience it is good. When going to London, the Highlander normally arrives a little before 0800. When going north, I get off at Helensburgh and it arrives at 0630.

I have only ever received delay repay on the CS once, compared to 50% of my journeys on Avanti. I appreciate that isn't like-for-like as the CS has more options for recovering time etc but it certainly makes it more predictable.

 

[JamesT]

What are the actual punctuality figures for the CS ?

Our Performance

Our Performance | Caledonian Sleeper. We publish reports on how we are performing. Find our reports here.

www.sleeper.scot

For long distance services such as ours, PPM is defined as those trains arriving at their final destination within 10 minutes of the planned arrival time.

23/24 Period 12 - 151/168, 89.88%

23/24 Period 13 - 152/164, 92.68%

24/25 Period 1 - 137/156 87.82%

24/25 Period 2 - 137/161 85.09%

24/25 Period 3 - 135/163 82.82%

24/25 Period 4 - 165/168 98.21%

24/25 Period 5 - 154/168 91.67%

Sounds like you would have to be relatively unlucky to be late with the sleeper.

 

[jagardner1984]

Our Performance

Our Performance | Caledonian Sleeper. We publish reports on how we are performing. Find our reports here.

www.sleeper.scot

Sounds like you would have to be relatively unlucky to be late with the sleeper.

And also highlights the nonsense of the performance statistics. Yes of course, punctuality matters. But the impact and kind of, acceptability, and what an average traveller might expect of an 11 minute delay to, for example, the Abbey Flyer, captive single track line exclusively used by on train for a 20 min journey compared to a 600 miles London to Inverness journey covering so many railways, signalling centres, weather systems, multiple shunts and haulage, is clearly wildly different, yet these statistics treat them the same. Whilst “free” stuff is always nice, I am not sure I think delay repay should be available at the level it currently is for very long distance journeys, or where there are genuine “out of our control” factors, such as a suicide or a weather related speed restriction. I’d much prefer that money was reinvested in the network. Anecdotally, the sleeper has always been on or close to time for me, and there always seems to be a “keep the show on the road” attitude to situations where other operators often throw in the towel. If nothing else, they deserve some credit for that.

 

[Winthorpe]

And also highlights the nonsense of the performance statistics. Yes of course, punctuality matters. But the impact and kind of, acceptability, and what an average traveller might expect of an 11 minute delay to, for example, the Abbey Flyer, captive single track line exclusively used by on train for a 20 min journey compared to a 600 miles London to Inverness journey covering so many railways, signalling centres, weather systems, multiple shunts and haulage, is clearly wildly different, yet these statistics treat them the same. Whilst “free” stuff is always nice, I am not sure I think delay repay should be available at the level it currently is for very long distance journeys, or where there are genuine “out of our control” factors, such as a suicide or a weather related speed restriction. I’d much prefer that money was reinvested in the network. Anecdotally, the sleeper has always been on or close to time for me, and there always seems to be a “keep the show on the road” attitude to situations where other operators often throw in the towel. If nothing else, they deserve some credit for that.

Well said.

And with the Highland Sleeper you mention , there's the milage of the Fort William and Aberdeen portions to factor in to.

 

[BRX]

See my post from just a month ago here -

Caledonian Sleeper

On average theres at least major delay or issue a week. Thats a lot. Is this anecdote or do you have some kind of numbers? Each time this comes up (the idea that the sleeper is super-unreliable) I go and look at https://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk. In the past the argument has often been about...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Gonzoiku]

In my experience it is good. When going to London, the Highlander normally arrives a little before 0800. When going north, I get off at Helensburgh and it arrives at 0630.

I have only ever received delay repay on the CS once, compared to 50% of my journeys on Avanti. I appreciate that isn't like-for-like as the CS has more options for recovering time etc but it certainly makes it more predictable.

Although over the years I have had more than one 100% refund on CS, it really doesn't matter if it's up to 30 minutes late, but it can go really badly wrong. I think Longfellow had it about right (mutatis mutandis, as they say):

There was a little girl,
Who had a little curl,
Right in the middle of her forehead.
When she was good,
She was very very good,
But when she was bad she was horrid.

GZ

 

[side effect]

Tbh I would only use the sleeper for leisure and a delay for us was more of an adventure.

Our last Eus-Inv was delayed 2hrs which meant we had less time to hang around Inverness unto we booked into our hotel.

If I never had 2 grandchildren I would try and go back and forth for as long as I could cope in the seated selection regardless of the toughness.

And I check the performance every night regardless.

 

[InvHst]

The sets are never left 'off' a supply for any longer than is necessary, engines run all day at Inverness and a shore supply is used at Clayhills. 90 emergency minutes battery power, and once they die its game over.

It will still have to wait until the 92 for the Southbound is tied up, that driver doesn't book on until around midnight IIRC.

Inverness use shore supply as well located on platform 2