Caledonian Sleeper

[Bill57p9]

You can certainly do it - you'll see people getting on and off the seated carriage at intermediate stops in both directions - but the impression has been for a long time that CS only do it reluctantly and really would prefer to get shot of the duty.

It's rather disappointing to see it removed from the Scotrail timetable, giving potential users of the WHL the impression that there are fewer services than actually are available to them.

It does still seem to come up in online journey planners though.

Whilst it is available to passengers between Fort William and Edinburgh, the train is classed as Reservations Compulsory and therefore may not stop at request stops without a booking. In particular Glasgow Queen Street often gets skipped northbound if running late.
A friend of mine used it for hillwalking a couple of years ago, got an ear bashing from the TM for not having a reservation who also wouldn’t sell a ticket.

 

[andyedinburgh]

Accessing club car from Fort William

My son and I have a classic twin in a couple of days time from FW to Euston, although we're actually staying in Roybridge

Is it possible to catch the train from Roybridge or will they assume we have missed it and given our berths away by then?

Also, any tactics to get a seat in the club car to see the views on the way down? I understand it's quite popular and priority is given to club ticket holders.

Thanks for the info.

And any tips for getting into the club car - is it basically likely to be full from the off from FW?

 

[BRX]

Whilst it is available to passengers between Fort William and Edinburgh, the train is classed as Reservations Compulsory and therefore may not stop at request stops without a booking. In particular Glasgow Queen Street often gets skipped northbound if running late.
A friend of mine used it for hillwalking a couple of years ago, got an ear bashing from the TM for not having a reservation who also wouldn’t sell a ticket.

I wonder how passengers are supposed to know this - it comes up on the NRE journey planner without any indications that reservations are necessary, and shows an anytime ticket as being valid.

 

[185143]

Whilst it is available to passengers between Fort William and Edinburgh, the train is classed as Reservations Compulsory and therefore may not stop at request stops without a booking. In particular Glasgow Queen Street often gets skipped northbound if running late.
A friend of mine used it for hillwalking a couple of years ago, got an ear bashing from the TM for not having a reservation who also wouldn’t sell a ticket.

I got an ear bashing at Fort William for the same thing one night when I rolled in on a 156 with a rover and saw a required 66. The TM asked if I had a reservation, I said I didn't and completely understood if I couldn't get on.

Still got a lecture and boarded thinking "fair enough, he did have a point if I'd actually needed to travel, as opposed to just red penning the loco." Wasn't amused with that fresh in mind to board a completely empty carriage, which remained empty until Rannoch at least, where I got off!

 

[Carlisle]

I got an ear bashing at Fort William for the same thing one night when I rolled in on a 156 with a rover and saw a required 66. The TM asked if I had a reservation, I said I didn't and completely understood if I couldn't get on.

Still got a lecture and boarded thinking "fair enough, he did have a point if I'd actually needed to travel, as opposed to just red penning the loco." Wasn't amused with that fresh in mind to board a completely empty carriage, which remained empty until Rannoch at least, where I got off!

So much for the Scottish Government being very pro public transport, sounds like they should intervene here if they really are .Or should we just be content Scotland’s railways aren’t embroiled in ongoing disputes & strikes?

 

[185143]

So much for the Scottish Government being very pro public transport, sounds like they should intervene here if they really are .Or should we just be content Scotland’s railways aren’t embroiled in ongoing disputes & strikes?

This was in the Serco era in fairness!

 

[Bill57p9]

I wonder how passengers are supposed to know this - it comes up on the NRE journey planner without any indications that reservations are necessary, and shows an anytime ticket as being valid.

Indeed - I just tried it. It is currently (1820) saying no tickets available for tonight, presumably because <2hours before departure but Anytime Day Single available for tomorrow.

RTT & the FAB Digital timetable both show it as Reservations Compulsory (I had the wrong word earlier), so it must be there in the train information in the timetable plan.

I do agree that it is very poor show for ScotRail to omit it from their timetables: Do they do the same for LNER and (what is left of) XC services between Edinburgh and Aberdeen? Or TPE between Glasgow Central and Motherwell?

EDIT: Likewise, the northbound Inverness portion seats are open to all between Kingussie and Inverness.

EDIT 2: Just looked - ScotRail have indeed dropped other operator’s services from their timetables, leaving apparent large holes between Edinburgh and Aberdeen.

 

[Kite159]

EDIT: Likewise, the northbound Inverness portion seats are open to all between Kingussie and Inverness.

If anything that will probably get dropped as from memory there is an earlier Perth - Inverness train which goes in front of the sleeper to cater for any commuters for Inverness (whereas previously the sleeper was the first train to arrive from the south.

Certainly I've been on the Fort William portion which hasn't stopped at Glasgow Queen Street when running over an hour late (rather than the more usual detour via Falkirk to recover lost time).

 

[sh24]

Thanks for the info.

And any tips for getting into the club car - is it basically likely to be full from the off from FW?

Boarding at Crianlarich in peak season I was pleasantly surprised to have a choice of seats in the Club car. So you should have a good chance.

 

[BRX]

Indeed - I just tried it. It is currently (1820) saying no tickets available for tonight, presumably because <2hours before departure but Anytime Day Single available for tomorrow.

RTT & the FAB Digital timetable both show it as Reservations Compulsory (I had the wrong word earlier), so it must be there in the train information in the timetable plan.

I do agree that it is very poor show for ScotRail to omit it from their timetables: Do they do the same for LNER and (what is left of) XC services between Edinburgh and Aberdeen? Or TPE between Glasgow Central and Motherwell?

EDIT: Likewise, the northbound Inverness portion seats are open to all between Kingussie and Inverness.

EDIT 2: Just looked - ScotRail have indeed dropped other operator’s services from their timetables, leaving apparent large holes between Edinburgh and Aberdeen.

Thought this deserved its own thread:

Scotrail omitting other operators' services from timetables

Maybe this has been going on for a while, but it seems that Scotrail's current "paper" timetables completely omit any services that aren't run by Scotrail. This means that anyone using these timetables will get a false impression of what travel options they have. This seems a very...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[fraser158]

If anything that will probably get dropped as from memory there is an earlier Perth - Inverness train which goes in front of the sleeper to cater for any commuters for Inverness (whereas previously the sleeper was the first train to arrive from the south.

Certainly I've been on the Fort William portion which hasn't stopped at Glasgow Queen Street when running over an hour late (rather than the more usual detour via Falkirk to recover lost time).

There was an earlier Perth to Inverness train but it is now a Kingussie to Inverness train, having run ECS from Inverness.

 

[55002]

Highlander going via Aberdeen tonight apparently. 4D47 is blocking the normal route, seized axle on 66122.

 

[swaldman]

Highlander going via Aberdeen tonight apparently. 4D47 is blocking the normal route, seized axle on 66122.

ooch. That must take a while...

 

[BRX]

I was on the sleeper last night.

It was the first time I've seen one of the concertina type toilet doors (the one along the corridor that you use if you've not got an ensuite) that was actually working and not at a wonky angle, semi-attached to a jumble of broken mechanism at the top.

The downside to it "working properly" is that it's now rather easy to slice your finger off, if you mistakenly put it where the door closes onto a sort of blade like frame profile, with some considerable force thanks to the spring loaded door mechanism. I would not be surprised if at some point CS finds someone complaining they injured themselves.

 

[marks87]

ooch. That must take a while...

Just over an hour late into Edinburgh, 50 minutes late leaving, but more than made it up for an on-time arrival into Euston.

Realtime Trains | 1M16 2045 Inverness, Aberdeen and Fort William to London Euston | 05/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 1M16 2045 departure from Inverness, Aberdeen and Fort William to London Euston on 05/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Amaranthe]

As you can use the Caledonian Sleeper as a 'regular' train to Glasgow along the West Highland line, you can hail it down can you not? It's in place of a Scotrail, and normal fares are valid.

While that was my understanding ... I note that the CS in not shown at all on the current Scotrail timetable.

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/media/29411/download?inline

It certainly used to be.

Plus I've seen in mentioned on this very thread that CS had made it more difficult to travel on a scotrail ticket on the service by making it difficult to reserve a seat on the service.

So I won't be so sure that it's an easy service to just flag down and catch. As JonathanH said I think a call to CS customer service would be a good idea to be on the safe side.

Staff I spoke to the other week seem really confused as they've been told they can't leave anyone standing on platforms but can't have anyone standing on the train.

I've just come back off an 14 day all line rover trip and took the sleeper I think the 10th July with the plan to go to Mallaig and back and get the 17:37 back from Fort William to Glasgow but that was cancelled and the sleeper staff said no guarantee I'd be able able to board the sleeper that night in the seated coach to Glasgow as it was fully booked so I missed out on Mallaig all together.

Not the only major disappointment of the trip but need to find a TfW thread for my other major disappointment.

 

[tom1649]

Why doesn't the Scottish Government reintegrate Caledonian Sleeper into Scotrail? They are both publically owned and would save on costs by removing unnecessary duplication.

 

[Scotrail84]

Why doesn't the Scottish Government reintegrate Caledonian Sleeper into Scotrail? They are both publically owned and would save on costs by removing unnecessary duplication.

That will probably happen in the long term but at the moment it will stay separate from ScotRail. I agree it makes sense to merge them though.

 

[35B]

Why doesn't the Scottish Government reintegrate Caledonian Sleeper into Scotrail? They are both publically owned and would save on costs by removing unnecessary duplication.

They may, but change also costs money, and the duplication may not be as huge as all that.

 

[Clansman]

Made a return journey on the sleeper last week to London and both ways lots of rattling from the berth doors and interconnecting doors. Seems like this problem is getting worse. Once upon a time you could jam a sock in the door and it would supress the vibration but not even that works anymore.

I wonder if this is something that will ever get fixed or has it just been accepted that it goes with the territory of the Mk5s these days?

 

[Samsanbor]

Why doesn't the Scottish Government reintegrate Caledonian Sleeper into Scotrail? They are both publically owned and would save on costs by removing unnecessary duplication.

What do you mean by duplication?

 

[AberdeenBill]

Made a return journey on the sleeper last week to London and both ways lots of rattling from the berth doors and interconnecting doors. Seems like this problem is getting worse. Once upon a time you could jam a sock in the door and it would supress the vibration but not even that works anymore.

I wonder if this is something that will ever get fixed or has it just been accepted that it goes with the territory of the Mk5s these days?

Even worse when in a Club Room as you also have a continual rattle from the toilet door.

 

[BlueLeanie]

What do you mean by duplication?

Aren't there separate Caledonian Sleeper information screens on all served ScotRail stations?

 

[paul1609]

Why doesn't the Scottish Government reintegrate Caledonian Sleeper into Scotrail? They are both publically owned and would save on costs by removing unnecessary duplication.

What locos would Scotrail use to haul the Mk5 coaches? I suspect if you had to build new locos tha cost would be such that youd just withdraw the services.

 

[swaldman]

They may, but change also costs money, and the duplication may not be as huge as all that.

I imagine most of the duplication is on back office systems. HR, procurement, and so on and so forth. I'm sure there would be savings there if it were handled by Scotrail again.

On the operational side... I'm no expert, but you have crews with different training doing different jobs on different stock on different routes. So I doubt that many economies are to be found?

Speculating a tad, I suspect that the major benefit of the old arrangement with Scotrail was that cross-subsidy was possible - that the true cost to government of affordable sleeper fares was hidden within the larger Scotrail settlement. But that shouldn't be an issue now, given no affordable fares...

 

[Davester50]

Aren't there separate Caledonian Sleeper information screens on all served ScotRail stations?

They're bought and paid for, I'd imagine.
It's back office duplication I'd imagine, with purchasing, HR, and other functions that are simple wins for consolidation with a re-amalgamated ScotRail/Sleeper franchise.

 

[MrJeeves]

Even worse when in a Club Room as you also have a continual rattle from the toilet door.

I had that until I realised I hadn't shut the door all the way, then it stopped.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's back office duplication I'd imagine, with purchasing, HR, and other functions that are simple wins for consolidation with a re-amalgamated ScotRail/Sleeper franchise.

Indeed. Also traincrew - no need to have dedicated drivers and guards for north of Edinburgh, for instance - in ScotRail days they were just crewed by ScotRail crews.

 

[Samsanbor]

Aren't there separate Caledonian Sleeper information screens on all served ScotRail stations?

Yes, there are.
So, is the OP referring to a "duplicate of informations screens"?

 

[swaldman]

Indeed. Also traincrew - no need to have dedicated drivers and guards for north of Edinburgh, for instance - in ScotRail days they were just crewed by ScotRail crews.

I'd assumed that the sleepers' drivers were hired in with the locos? Or does it not work that way?
Fair point about guards, I guess.