Caledonian Sleeper

[WF4HA5HE]

They should have built a bigger lounge, even if they wanted to maintain a separate club one. Anyone with a berth ticket at minimum (and seats tbh) should have a lounge area to wait.

I agree with this 100%. Caladonian sleeper market the sleeper as a premium experience which most of the time costs premium prices so to expect half the train to tough it out in the main concourse at Euston which is usually rammed anyway even at that time of night has always seemed strange to me. I think seated and classic solo room passengers should atleast have a dedicated area at Euston even if that's just seats and some plug sockets I mean I often see classic rooms going for £250 upwards.

 

[Meerkat]

How much CS business is repeat? Just seems like the kind of treatment/price combo you can only get away with if you can fill your trains with one time passengers.

 

[theironroad]

How much CS business is repeat? Just seems like the kind of treatment/price combo you can only get away with if you can fill your trains with one time passengers.

I'd imagine quite a lot are one time only, but historically at least Scottish MPs, some broadcasters and Scots working in London but returning home every week have been a market too.

Obviously, many of these people aren't paying out of their own pocket and would be interesting to see how many of those who are paying out of their own pocket/business have switched away from the CS to day trains or air (especially Inverness, Aberdeen).

 

[norbitonflyer]

I've used it several times. I don't think the new lounge is better (or worse) than the previous arrangements at Euston, and the ambience on the platform could only really be improved by using a different station altogether.

 

[03_179]

A bit of a out there question.
My mate and his brother are off to either Scotland or Penzance on the sleepers (they just want to do a sleeper I think).
While he is a trim 16 stone his brother is quite large at 19 stone. Does the upper bed have a weight limit on either the Caley sleeper or the GWR Sleeper ?

 

[Caleb2010]

A bit of a out there question.
My mate and his brother are off to either Scotland or Penzance on the sleepers (they just want to do a sleeper I think).
While he is a trim 16 stone his brother is quite large at 19 stone. Does the upper bed have a weight limit on either the Caley sleeper or the GWR Sleeper ?

Not sure on top bunk but bottom/double perfectly ok for me and I'm 30 stone. Caledonian sleeper anyway. you do feel the base of the bed though.

 

[moffatcalum]

73971 with the southbound Aberdeen portion (30/4/24)

 

[johnr57]

I'd imagine quite a lot are one time only, but historically at least Scottish MPs, some broadcasters and Scots working in London but returning home every week have been a market too.

Obviously, many of these people aren't paying out of their own pocket and would be interesting to see how many of those who are paying out of their own pocket/business have switched away from the CS to day trains or air (especially Inverness, Aberdeen).

I did regard myself as a regular customer!

Until recently I was based in Edinburgh , having moved from North Yorkshire. Most of my work at that time was Kent, Essex and London centric and usually only single days . My typical journeys would be southbound the lowlander ( regarding it as travel & hotel cost) and returning home on the 1930 from King’s Cross.
I found it somewhat efficient southbound as I would often be in my day location well in advance of my scheduled appointment time as the sleeper invariably arrived early and HS1 got me to deepest Kent well before 9am

I now live in Northallerton and those trips are no where near as convenient, requiring hotel in the expensive south - I have on occasion considered Northallerton- Edinburgh to get the sleeper as before as with advanced and splits the overall costs are sometimes are similar and it is more convenient.

 

[driverd]

Not sure on top bunk but bottom/double perfectly ok for me and I'm 30 stone. Caledonian sleeper anyway. you do feel the base of the bed though.

I'm 11 1/2 stone and feel the base of the bed - I think it's more a poor mattress scenario and not something weight specific!

 

[Mainliner]

I now live in Northallerton and those trips are no where near as convenient, requiring hotel in the expensive south - I have on occasion considered Northallerton- Edinburgh to get the sleeper as before as with advanced and splits the overall costs are sometimes are similar and it is more convenient.

I live in Northumberland, and on a few occasions travelled to Edinburgh to take the sleeper south (before the advent of the much more expensive new stock). As you say, the arrival time in London is convenient, but I wouldn’t do it now, at the current prices.

On one occasion, my northbound train was delayed, and the guard came through taking notes of people’s destinations, for onward travel purposes. He raised an eyebrow when I said London, but fortunately I made the sleeper connection!

 

[Caleb2010]

I'm 11 1/2 stone and feel the base of the bed - I think it's more a poor mattress scenario and not something weight specific!

I tend to whack up the heating and sleep on top of the covers, they give that extra bit of cushioning

 

[BRX]

I wonder how they get away with it. It really can't leave a good impression for tourists or anyone departing or arriving on the sleeper.

I realise that the rubbish trucks etc need somewhere to exit the station, but the area is really poor. I'd imagine waiting in a warehouse loading dock is more glamorous.



They should have built a bigger lounge, even if they wanted to maintain a separate club one. Anyone with a berth ticket at minimum (and seats tbh) should have a lounge area to wait.

In connection with the above post, the whole P1 area is grim. Maybe CS should have a dedicated entrance on the street direct to a big lounge, where people could sit and then board the train which would be alongside. For the premium prices charged for berths, especially club, they really should up their game. Imagine business/first airline ticket holders being forced to wait in the stairwell at the gate for boarding.

I don't think a larger lounge is necessary, just a little bit more organisation and information. So that any passenger arriving at P1 knows what's going on. Some relatively simple signage could explain that "club" passengers can go to the lounge, and that the highlander & lowlander are separate departures. It could also display the time at which general boarding will open, and ideally this would match the info on people's tickets. The crowd could be separated into different groups for each portion of the train even if it's not possible to start checking people in at that point.

In the past they've had various systems; I'm sure at one point there were little check-in posts with signs above. Now it seems to have degraded into an arrangement where most of the passengers don't know what's going on and some get anxious about whether they are even waiting for the right train.

 

[Meerkat]

Can you really only use the lounge if you are club? At that time of night and at that price?! A comfy chair in a warm room should be the minimum provision.

 

[theironroad]

I don't think a larger lounge is necessary, just a little bit more organisation and information. So that any passenger arriving at P1 knows what's going on. Some relatively simple signage could explain that "club" passengers can go to the lounge, and that the highlander & lowlander are separate departures. It could also display the time at which general boarding will open, and ideally this would match the info on people's tickets. The crowd could be separated into different groups for each portion of the train even if it's not possible to start checking people in at that point.

In the past they've had various systems; I'm sure at one point there were little check-in posts with signs above. Now it seems to have degraded into an arrangement where most of the passengers don't know what's going on and some get anxious about whether they are even waiting for the right train.

CS passengers, especially berth, but all really, deserve a dedicated lounge area. Hanging around the bin movement area behind the buffers on P1 is a appalling way to treat people who've paid serious money for the trip. In inclement weather, when cold, windy or rain, waiting by those gates isn't fun.

A boarding time ( and alighting time) is displayed when booking, but it's not unusual for the CS set to leave Wembley late and be delayed into Euston. The hosts board at EUS and don't start their checks, key prep etc until then. Actual boarding time can often not be the advertised time.

What would be a good idea,is maybe having separate digital screens at entrance and on platform (controlled by CS) to show which platform zone their respective carriage is located. ( can show where: club, classic, seats, lounge, cycle, luggage etc.

What doesn't help is I believe there used to be more hosts, almost 1 per carriage where now they seem more thinly spread and while having CS staff at platform entrance is a good idea to offer help to those who need it, why they insist on checking every ticket to signpost where to go (only for ticket to be checked before boarding at relevant carriage destination) slows things down. especially for regular and semi regular passengers who know where to go.

 

[paul1609]

How much CS business is repeat? Just seems like the kind of treatment/price combo you can only get away with if you can fill your trains with one time passengers.

On the Fort William service very few in terms of individuals. In my time of going up from Kent to Garelochead I only knew of maybe a handful of regulars. The owners of the Bridge of Orchy Hotel, One of the Owners of one of the Rannoch Estate and his wife. According to the staff I was the only passenger that ever alighted/ joined at Garelochead. However theres lots of repeat group bookings via various things at Bridge of Orchy, Courour and Spean Bridge. Theres also group bookings from a lot of International Railtour operators. Theres a poster on here whos associated with an Australian Operator who brings a large party each year I think. its also very popular with rail employees both Uk and International

 

[norbitonflyer]

I have used all of them except the Aberdeen several times. Since the Mark 5s came in I think Inverness 4, Glasgow 2, Edinburgh 1, Fort William 2, and many times with the Mark 3s, when I still had relatives living near Edinburgh.

 

[JamieL]

How much CS business is repeat? Just seems like the kind of treatment/price combo you can only get away with if you can fill your trains with one time passengers.

I am a semi-regular on the Fort William portion as it is such a time efficient way to travel. I don't think the cost is disproportionate to other travel once you add up the costs of travel to/from airports (in time and money), extra luggage charges, the hassle of security/boarding/luggage restrictions, boredom of airport waiting etc. The ease of boarding at my local station late evening and arriving in Euston before 0800 is fantastic. No wasted time on day of departure, a full day free upon arrival and no early morning dash to the airport.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I am a semi-regular on the Fort William portion as it is such a time efficient way to travel. I don't think the cost is disproportionate to other travel once you add up the costs of travel to/from airports (in time and money), extra luggage charges, the hassle of security/boarding/luggage restrictions, boredom of airport waiting etc. The ease of boarding at my local station late evening and arriving in Euston before 0800 is fantastic. No wasted time on day of departure, a full day free upon arrival and no early morning dash to the airport.

That sums up what I see as the advantages of sleeper travel but for me it is now too costly.

A simpler and cheaper product (less glamorous room) would suffice for me. You are always going to get negatives from those of us who were used to the cheaper predecessor.

Time marches on and it is now aimed at a different market. I feel it has become a heavily advertised once in a lifetime experience nowadays rather than a bread and butter service relying on repeat business. But the competition (day-trains, air, coach and car) has perhaps eaten away at the market for the regular traveller.

 

[BRX]

There are plenty of people who use the Fort William sleeper more than once. Not necessarily regulars in the sense of many trips per year, but people who might use it once or twice, most years.

I'm one of those (but mixture of Fort William and Inverness).

The prices are more expensive than I'd like but they still make sense compared to other options if there are two of you traveling (so you can share a cabin). As a solo traveller not so much.

 

[Robert Ambler]

How much CS business is repeat? Just seems like the kind of treatment/price combo you can only get away with if you can fill your trains with one time passengers.

I know people who use the Caledonian Sleeper multiple times per year.
Last time I travelled on it I sat at a table in the club car with a freelance journalist who made a return trip every week. He was on first name terms with all the stewards which considerably speeded up our drinks service!

 

[Caleb2010]

I know people who use the Caledonian Sleeper multiple times per year.
Last time I travelled on it I sat at a table in the club car with a freelance journalist who made a return trip every week. He was on first name terms with all the stewards which considerably speeded up our drinks service!

I’m one of the repeat customers! I travel around once a month - sometimes more and see several people who travel regularly each time!

I don’t tend to use the club car, sometimes the formation is formed with the club car and/or the accessible car a**e about face and wheelchair accessibility isn’t available, but then every time this has happened- the stewards always offer to collect anything I order!

Splendid service!

 

[Meerkat]

I know people who use the Caledonian Sleeper multiple times per year.
Last time I travelled on it I sat at a table in the club car with a freelance journalist who made a return trip every week. He was on first name terms with all the stewards which considerably speeded up our drinks service!

I’m not saying there aren’t repeat users, but if they are a significant proportion of your business (particularly high spend full fare business) then you would treat them a bit better than leaving them standing around in Euston station??

 

[cb a1]

I’m not saying there aren’t repeat users, but if they are a significant proportion of your business (particularly high spend full fare business) then you would treat them a bit better than leaving them standing around in Euston station??

As a formerly regular repeat user (now occasional), I didn't really use the lounges at either end of the journey. I would tend to arrive just in time to board before the train departed.
If I arrive early at Euston, the Euston Tap is where I'll be found rather than a lounge.

 

[jagardner1984]

As a formerly regular repeat user (now occasional), I didn't really use the lounges at either end of the journey. I would tend to arrive just in time to board before the train departed.
If I arrive early at Euston, the Euston Tap is where I'll be found rather than a lounge.

In some ways, some more formalised setup with one of the many local hospitality businesses, hotels etc, where some room could be used to keep people warm and dry and a flask of tea, ideally with some form of "The train is now ready for boarding" screen, would be somewhat preferable to a corner of Platform 1 next to the bins, however lovely it may be inside.

 

[jfowkes]

I've used it several times. I don't think the new lounge is better (or worse) than the previous arrangements at Euston, and the ambience on the platform could only really be improved by using a different station altogether.

Personally I would love to see CS use St. Pancras instead of Euston. St Pancras is just a much grander station than Euston and would fit the "premium experience" thing that CS are going for. Also it would be attractive for Eurostar connections.

I realise however that there are about a trillion reasons why this is stupid and wouldn't work.

 

[trebor79]

Personally I would love to see CS use St. Pancras instead of Euston. St Pancras is just a much grander station than Euston and would fit the "premium experience" thing that CS are going for. Also it would be attractive for Eurostar connections.

I realise however that there are about a trillion reasons why this is stupid and wouldn't work.

A great idea, but it would have to use the dreary shed plonked in front of the grand old station.

 

[paul1609]

As a formerly regular repeat user (now occasional), I didn't really use the lounges at either end of the journey. I would tend to arrive just in time to board before the train departed.
If I arrive early at Euston, the Euston Tap is where I'll be found rather than a lounge.

I was the same I think in about 30 years I only used the (Virgin) lounge once and that was due to difficulties with the Highlander rolling stock which ended up with me being on the lowlander. I don't even know where the other lounges are. My Garelochead lounge of choice is the anchor.

 

[popeter45]

Personally I would love to see CS use St. Pancras instead of Euston. St Pancras is just a much grander station than Euston and would fit the "premium experience" thing that CS are going for. Also it would be attractive for Eurostar connections.

I realise however that there are about a trillion reasons why this is stupid and wouldn't work.

thinking about it potentally not that hard thou impratical

morning arrival just use arrivals like eurostar already does as they are already UK side
evening could use the old arrivals area thats now overflow as a lounge/not passport control

and i know some 92's have TVM but do they have KVB too?, so not impossible to add that back on

 

[paul1609]

thinking about it potentally not that hard thou impratical

morning arrival just use arrivals like eurostar already does as they are already UK side

evening could use the old arrivals area thats now overflow as a lounge/not passport control

and i know some 92's have TVM but do they have KVB too?, so not impossible to add that back on

UK gauge trains can't use the Eurostar platforms at St Pancras, Stratford, Ebbsfleet or Ashford as the platforms are too low and there's a huge gap between the platform and the train. Ashford has an unofficial scaffold board for the use of engineering trains!

 

[popeter45]

UK gauge trains can't use the Eurostar platforms at St Pancras, Stratford, Ebbsfleet or Ashford as the platforms are too low and there's a huge gap between the platform and the train. Ashford has an unofficial scaffold board for the use of engineering trains!

373's are pretty much UK loading gauge
also as its not the fastest loading not that much to add a few placeable steps on the platform