Caledonian Sleeper

[Bald Rick]

If they can fill the seats on a Tuesday in December they must be doing something right.

The Tuesday before Christmas, lots of people travelling for the hols already.

Looks like the Scottish Government is going to hike up the fares by nearly 9% from Jan 1st.
If you thought it was already extortionate just wait till next year!

Given how frequently it sells out, I‘m surprised it‘s not more.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2023 ==

So is there a market for a lower cost version for all those displaced business travellers, domestic travellers and enthusiasts ?.

There might be a market, but who is going to pay the subsidy? A lower priced sleeper ‘offer’ is still going to cost much the same to provide.

Scot Gov are justifying the high subsidy on the existing sleeper on the basis that it helps bring relatively wealthy tourists to Scotland to spend their pounds, euros, dollars, yen and yuan.

 

[Sealink]

Looks like the Scottish Government is going to hike up the fares by nearly 9% from Jan 1st.
If you thought it was already extortionate just wait till next year!

Bring back Bargain Sleepers!

Tried it once, paid £39 from Inverness... had a cabin to myself

#YEMV

 

[alistairlees]

Bring back Bargain Sleepers!

Tried it once, paid £39 from Inverness... had a cabin to myself

#YEMV

Rooms already sell out for between £140 and £400 so there is no need for this to happen.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I am not sure we can rule out the CS getting repeat customers - I use the service semi-regularly for business and leisure travel - I am sure I am not alone. It is convenient, time-efficient, reliable and very comfortable. Try saying all that about any other long distance UK train! I would use it more if capacity wasn't so limited in Winter!

For me, if I was in the market, I prefer overnight/sleeper - but at a reasonable price. Gone are those days.

Looks like the Scottish Government is going to hike up the fares by nearly 9% from Jan 1st.
If you thought it was already extortionate just wait till next year!

Demand > Supply = price rises, but its only roughly what inflation is.

The Tuesday before Christmas, lots of people travelling for the hols already.




Given how frequently it sells out, I‘m surprised it‘s not more.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2023 ==



There might be a market, but who is going to pay the subsidy? A lower priced sleeper ‘offer’ is still going to cost much the same to provide.

Scot Gov are justifying the high subsidy on the existing sleeper on the basis that it helps bring relatively wealthy tourists to Scotland to spend their pounds, euros, dollars, yen and yuan.

I agree. Needs someone to come up with an operational model that someone else could justify subsidising. Cannot see it happening unless an ecological argument can be made but then that's probably faster day trains - HS2 anybody !.

 

[ScotTrains]

Bring back Bargain Sleepers!

Tried it once, paid £39 from Inverness... had a cabin to myself

#YEMV

What a rip off! I used to get the bargain berths for £19. The Scotrail advance loyalty card would then get you Euston lounge access too! Long gone are those days.

Anyway, if the sleeper can still book out despite the forthcoming 9% hike (over 2x the current rate of inflation) then good for them. Think I'll stick to flying BA £30 with 1st class lounge using my emerald status.

 

[Blindtraveler]

And after a not particularly pleasant night in the seats back in the autumn, stelios can sleep easy as his profits from me are safe every time I go to Scotland

 

[Iskra]

And after a not particularly pleasant night in the seats back in the autumn, stelios can sleep easy as his profits from me are safe every time I go to Scotland

I’ve done the unthinkable and booked a trip in the seats to Aberdeen in February. Starting from Crewe so 2 hours less to worry about, and I did 54 hours on the California Zephyr so should be fine. It’s only one night and £55 is very reasonable compared to the berth fares, which I was prepared to pay once only to try it and when with my partner. This will complete the 3 CS Highlander routes for me

 

[Blindtraveler]

I’ve done the unthinkable and booked a trip in the seats to Aberdeen in February. Starting from Crewe so 2 hours less to worry about, and I did 54 hours on the California Zephyr so should be fine. It’s only one night and £55 is very reasonable compared to the berth fares, which I was prepared to pay once only to try it and when with my partner. This will complete the 3 CS Highlander routes for me please tell me you're not about to do something really really stupid like book to go straight back on a horrible azuma

 

[Iskra]

No, Scotrail HST to the Central Belt and then Avanti in First back down South I’m not a fan of Azuma’s on long journeys.

 

[Gaelan]

I’ve done the unthinkable and booked a trip in the seats to Aberdeen in February. Starting from Crewe so 2 hours less to worry about, and I did 54 hours on the California Zephyr so should be fine. It’s only one night and £55 is very reasonable compared to the berth fares, which I was prepared to pay once only to try it and when with my partner. This will complete the 3 CS Highlander routes for me

Having just gone straight from the Caledonian Sleeper onto Amtrak (Lake Shore Limited + Empire Builder), I’m afraid to report Amtrak (especially with their new leather seats) is much better. I’m quite tall though - my main issue with the CS was legroom and a poorly designed footrest.

 

[Iskra]

Having just gone straight from the Caledonian Sleeper onto Amtrak (Lake Shore Limited + Empire Builder), I’m afraid to report Amtrak (especially with their new leather seats) is much better. I’m quite tall though - my main issue with the CS was legroom and a poorly designed footrest.

Yes I am sure that is the case, but I won’t even be on the CS for 8 hours so imagine I will get by okay And if not I can sleep on the Scotrail HST on the way home

 

[A S Leib]

As the tickets for Edinburgh to Fort William on the ScotRail app I've seen so far are all £40 and starting from Euston it's £36 for a seat for the day I want to travel, if I were to buy a ticket from Euston and ask in advance if I can join at Edinburgh, how likely would that be to be approved? (Sleeper tickets are fully refundable if done over a week before travel, so not a massive issue if not.)

I've taken the approach of an anytime day single from Edinburgh to Dumbarton Central (£13.55) and one from Dumbarton Central to Fort William (£19.50) - slightly cheaper anyway, and I've definitely got a seat reservation for the Sleeper (via social media; GWR's website doesn't seem to like giving seat reservations for the Caledonian Sleeper).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've taken the approach of an anytime day single from Edinburgh to Dumbarton Central (£13.55) and one from Dumbarton Central to Fort William (£19.50) - slightly cheaper anyway, and I've definitely got a seat reservation for the Sleeper (via social media; GWR's website doesn't seem to like giving seat reservations for the Caledonian Sleeper).

I got the GWR site to do one before, unless they've blocked it since.

 

[156421]

I got the GWR site to do one before, unless they've blocked it since.

I have used the GWR site for this multiple times. It only fails when there are no seats left.

 

[A S Leib]

I got the GWR site to do one before, unless they've blocked it since.

The Sleeper service shows up on the seat reservation site for me but it doesn't let me select 'off-peak single' or any other ticket type so I can't make a reservation.

 

[JonathanH]

The Sleeper service shows up on the seat reservation site for me but it doesn't let me select 'off-peak single' or any other ticket type so I can't make a reservation.

It seems to allow me to select an anytime day single, but not an off peak one, and not more than two weeks out.

There may still be a restriction on how long in advance the tickets can be booked.

 

[A S Leib]

There may still be a restriction on how long in advance the tickets can be booked.

It doesn't give me the option to book Sleeper seat reservations for 3rd January, let alone more than twelve weeks in advance.

 

[Essexman]

I'm looking at the sleeper to Inverness as part of an All Line Rover (22nd Jan) but it is coming up at £195 sleeper supplement which is only £3 less than the price without rover (both Club with senior railcard).
I assumed there would be a better discount. Is this typical or do CS not get much share of rover tickets so they don't give much discount?

 

[island]

I'm looking at the sleeper to Inverness as part of an All Line Rover (22nd Jan) but it is coming up at £195 sleeper supplement which is only £3 less than the price without rover (both Club with senior railcard).
I assumed there would be a better discount. Is this typical or do CS not get much share of rover tickets so they don't give much discount?

Railcard discounts don’t apply to sleeper supplements (whereas they would to a full ticket).

 

[Gaelan]

Railcard discounts don’t apply to sleeper supplements (whereas they would to a full ticket).

This is correct. Also, even without a railcard, the cheapest price tier on club tickets (£165) is cheaper than the room supplement (always £195).

Finally, note that Club supplements require a first-class rover.

 

[Essexman]

This is correct. Also, even without a railcard, the cheapest price tier on club tickets (£165) is cheaper than the room supplement (always £195).

Finally, note that Club supplements require a first-class rover.

Thanks.
It will be a first class rover but I won't be including the sleeper at another £195.

 

[londonboi]

Often wondered on this does anyone know what seats are the forward facing seats going southbound on the seated coach. When i have been going to book it and have a seat in the past it is hard to work out which way would be facing forwards on the southbound direction the carriage diagram dont really show you the direction of travel both ends of the diagram say "end of train" but which end is forward lol

 

[route101]

Often wondered on this does anyone know what seats are the forward facing seats going southbound on the seated coach. When i have been going to book it and have a seat in the past it is hard to work out which way would be facing forwards on the southbound direction the carriage diagram dont really show you the direction of travel both ends of the diagram say "end of train" but which end is forward lol

Usually if the diagram shows the club car you can fathom which direction the seated coach is in.

 

[JonathanH]

Often wondered on this does anyone know what seats are the forward facing seats going southbound on the seated coach. When i have been going to book it and have a seat in the past it is hard to work out which way would be facing forwards on the southbound direction the carriage diagram dont really show you the direction of travel both ends of the diagram say "end of train" but which end is forward lol

The forward facing seats going southbound on the trunk leg when on the WCML are the ones in rows 6 to 11, as the guard / luggage compartment generally leads. Obviously there are reversals involved further north.

 

[alistairlees]

Often wondered on this does anyone know what seats are the forward facing seats going southbound on the seated coach. When i have been going to book it and have a seat in the past it is hard to work out which way would be facing forwards on the southbound direction the carriage diagram dont really show you the direction of travel both ends of the diagram say "end of train" but which end is forward lol

Every train (except the Glasgow service) reverses at some point during the journey, so it's not the easiest of things to convey. It's on the list of things to do though.

 

[Samsanbor]

Often wondered on this does anyone know what seats are the forward facing seats going southbound on the seated coach. When i have been going to book it and have a seat in the past it is hard to work out which way would be facing forwards on the southbound direction the carriage diagram dont really show you the direction of travel both ends of the diagram say "end of train" but which end is forward lol

It depends.
What do you mean for going southbound? It's the Highlander going south or the Lowlander going south?
All services will require a shunt to join/split to/from another portion at Edinburgh Waverley or Carstairs and, for example, if you were sitting facing forward at the beginning of your journey you will be likely facing backwards after your train has joined/splitted another portion at one of these locations.
Also, sometimes the seat coach it's not in its usual position (rear/front of formation) or can also be "wrong turned" due to operational reasons, all of this will have an impact as well.
It can be hard as you said to figure out the running direction and it might change during the journey anyway.

 

[Deafdoggie]

It depends.
What do you mean for going southbound? It's the Highlander going south or the Lowlander going south?
All services will require a shunt to join/split to/from another portion at Edinburgh Waverley or Carstairs and, for example, if you were sitting facing forward at the beginning of your journey you will be likely facing backwards after your train has joined/splitted another portion at one of these locations.
Also, sometimes the seat coach it's not in its usual position (rear/front of formation) or can also be "wrong turned" due to operational reasons, all of this will have an impact as well.
It can be hard as you said to figure out the running direction and it might change during the journey anyway.

The Glasgow portion doesn't turn at all in either direction.
The trains are in the same formation otherwise the split/join doesn't work.
If travelling from Glasgow on the lowlander you won't change direction. On everything else you will change direction either at Edinburgh (Highlander) or Carstairs (Lowlander from Edinburgh)

 

[BRX]

I don't think the CS website is clear about the refund policy. If I am looking at ticket options, I'm presented with something like this:



Ok, so I can choose according to type of accommodation. For each type of accommodation there appears to be only one ticket type. Clicking on "more info" tells me more about the accommodation type - it doesn't tell me about ticket type or conditions as such.

Near the bottom of that page there's this button:



At first sight, it suggests that I can get a full refund if I cancel 7 days or more before travel. But there's a little doubt in my mind because maybe "cancellations" means when the train itself is cancelled?

So I click in the "read more" button and I get this:



Above the table it says that I can only get a refund on their "Flexible Tickets and room supplements". Am I buying a "Flexible Ticket"? The ticket I've been offered is specific to a date, so I'm not really sure that I am. It's not described anywhere as a "flexible ticket".

So... I go to the https://www.sleeper.scot/tickets/ page of the website and under "rooms" there is this:



Well, this suggests that there are two types of tickets ... "Caledonian Sleeper Tickets" and "Caledonian Sleeper Dedicated Tickets". And that the refund option is only available on the latter.

How am I meant to know whether I am being offered a "Caledonian Sleeper Ticket" or a "Caledonian Sleeper Dedicated Ticket"?

 

[Caleb2010]

I’ve always found them the easiest of the TOCs when buying and occasionally refunding!

I’ll agree the wording could be changed but they are all Caledonian Sleeper dedicated tickets if they include a reservation for the Caledonian Sleeper!

What the panel is telling you is pretty self explanatory and clear. You buy a ticket from them for the sleeper - up to 12 months ……… etc

If you’ve bought a ticket valid on the sleeper and need it refunded then ……..!

Dedicated sleeper tickets as opposed to ones for national rail (CS used to sell tickets for any operator- not sure if they still do!)

That’s my interpretation anyway.

 

[BRX]

I’ve always found them the easiest of the TOCs when buying and occasionally refunding!

It ought to be really, seeing as they seem to be the only operator allowed to sell tickets for their own services and their own services alone. There should be very little complexity in assessing and processing a refund as they don't have to involve themselves in the messiness of multi-leg journeys.