Caledonian Sleeper

[Watershed]

the idea that all four of the major London airports all shot up to £300+ is just silly

I was hardly going to go to another London airport (during an ASLEF overtime ban severely affecting Luton & Gatwick rail services, no less) after arriving at Heathrow at 18:45. And yes, all flights yesterday were over £300 no matter how many times you try and suggest otherwise. Silly prices, no doubt, but there are some who are willing to pay those prices for a distress purchase.

 

[Cowley]

So you are basing on cost? Surely then a £25 Megabus would have been cheaper than £80 on the sleeper for a seat? But if comparing a Thurs flight with the sleeper:

View attachment 147836
...and its only one of the rubbish cabins!


Maybe so - but the idea that all four of the major London airports all shot up to £300+ is just silly.

I think we need to leave this side discussion there for now. If anyone wants this split off then let us know which posts and we’ll look into it.

Thanks

 

[paninaro]

Does CS ever upgrade people at the gate as it were ? - ie from a Seat to a Berth.

I've been upgraded from a Classic to a Double if that counts. I've always wondered if there was a problem with my booked berth, or it was somehow related to the fact I got on later than my booked departure point (Corrour rather than Fort William, having notified them in advance). Something like my booked berth got resold to someone who turned up at Fort William and they kept the double, in case I didn't actually get on

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does CS ever upgrade people at the gate as it were ? - ie from a Seat to a Berth.

It has happened when the seated coach has been unusable for some reason, but certainly not often.

 

[JonathanH]

Does CS ever upgrade people at the gate as it were ? - ie from a Seat to a Berth.

It has happened when the seated coach has been unusable for some reason, but certainly not often.

More often in Mark 2 / Mark 3 days than now, as would be expected given new rolling stock, but only because of the seated coach being unavailable as you note.

I've seen people ask to upgrade from the seats once onboard. Last week, a couple asked but retracted their request once they were quoted a cost of £200.

 

[williamn]

Currently on the Glasgow bound Lowlander with a failed locomotive at Carlisle. Told train won’t be splitting so we’ll all be going to Edinburgh.

 

[trebor79]

Currently on the Glasgow bound Lowlander with a failed locomotive at Carlisle. Told train won’t be splitting so we’ll all be going to Edinburgh.

You'd have though they'd give you the option of getting the next Avanti service to Glasgow. Given they're going to have to get you there from Edinburgh anyway...

 

[Falcon1200]

I wonder why the whole train went to Edinburgh, in such circumstances it has usually been Glasgow, in my experience.

 

[43096]

I wonder why the whole train went to Edinburgh, in such circumstances it has usually been Glasgow, in my experience.

Can both portions and three locomotives (the dead one, the rescue loco and the loco to take the train to Polmadie) fit in the platform at Glasgow Central?

There may also be the question of where most passengers were going.

 

[JamieL]

Is the Lowlander shortened at this time of year like the Highlander? If so, presumably all portions would have fitted in Glasgow. Perhaps the decision to goto Edinburgh was demand driven - presumably a fair amount of tourist traffic for the Christmas Market there?

 

[Gaelan]

Is the Lowlander shortened at this time of year like the Highlander? If so, presumably all portions would have fitted in Glasgow. Perhaps the decision to goto Edinburgh was demand driven - presumably a fair amount of tourist traffic for the Christmas Market there?

That’d presumably be announced beforehand, not onboard when it’s too late to sell any tickets to Edinburgh!

 

[Bletchleyite]

That’d presumably be announced beforehand, not onboard when it’s too late to sell any tickets to Edinburgh!

Perhaps more based on how many passengers are on board for each? I suspect it's more operationally driven, though.

 

[JamieL]

That’d presumably be announced beforehand, not onboard when it’s too late to sell any tickets to Edinburgh!

Perhaps more based on how many passengers are on board for each?

Yes, the latter is what I meant. The tourist market for Edinburgh is presumably quite strong at this time of year.

It does sound a little disappointing they didn't allow disembarkation at Carlisle and ticket acceptance on Avanti.

 

[Gaelan]

Yes, the latter is what I meant. The tourist market for Edinburgh is presumably quite strong at this time of year.

It does sound a little disappointing they didn't allow disembarkation at Carlisle and ticket acceptance on Avanti.

Still a little confused as to how this would work. The sleeper is mandatory-reservation (and actually so, not the fake kind LNER and Avanti do), so there will never be more Edinburgh-bound passengers on board than Edinburgh-bound seats/berths. Unless you're suggesting a large number of passengers booked tickets to Glasgow with a plan to immediately change onto a ScotRail to Edinburgh?

 

[JamieL]

Still a little confused as to how this would work. The sleeper is mandatory-reservation (and actually so, not the fake kind LNER and Avanti do), so there will never be more Edinburgh-bound passengers on board than Edinburgh-bound seats/berths. Unless you're suggesting a large number of passengers booked tickets to Glasgow with a plan to immediately change onto a ScotRail to Edinburgh?

Just speculating that there might be more passengers in the Edinburgh portion than the Glasgow portion on this specific train. No idea if that is the case, just guessing that Edinburgh demand dominates the tourist market at present.

As someone else stated, it is more likely to be Operational reasons.

 

[paul1609]

Is the Lowlander shortened at this time of year like the Highlander? If so, presumably all portions would have fitted in Glasgow. Perhaps the decision to goto Edinburgh was demand driven - presumably a fair amount of tourist traffic for the Christmas Market there?

Unless its changed in the last couple of years the market to Edinburgh is much stronger than to Glasgow all year round especially northbound. The only busy days on the Glasgow section are Thursday and Friday night. I think its been that way ever since the West Coast Modernisation was completed.

 

[InOban]

Surely a full-length train has to run into Waverley because Glasgow Central can't accommodate it?

 

[JamieL]

Surely a full-length train has to run into Waverley because Glasgow Central can't accommodate it?

Is the Lowlander full length at this time of year? The Highlander, at least the Fort William portion, is shortened significantly at present.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Is the Lowlander shortened at this time of year like the Highlander? If so, presumably all portions would have fitted in Glasgow. Perhaps the decision to goto Edinburgh was demand driven - presumably a fair amount of tourist traffic for the Christmas Market there?

It's running to load 14 at the moment judging by a number of recent videos on Twitter.

 

[InOban]

Still too long for Glasgow. AIR an 11-coach Pendolino is as long as can fit.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Still a little confused as to how this would work. The sleeper is mandatory-reservation (and actually so, not the fake kind LNER and Avanti do), so there will never be more Edinburgh-bound passengers on board than Edinburgh-bound seats/berths. Unless you're suggesting a large number of passengers booked tickets to Glasgow with a plan to immediately change onto a ScotRail to Edinburgh?

I think your missing the fact there was a locomotive failure so the Lowlander had to all go one way or the other ?. Choice was whatever was least worst and this time of year its speculated that most passengers were for Edinburgh.

 

[Gaelan]

I think your missing the fact there was a locomotive failure so the Lowlander had to all go one way or the other ?. Choice was whatever was least worst and this time of year its speculated that most passengers were for Edinburgh.

Ah, yep, thanks.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Ah, yep, thanks.

No Probs.

 

[williamn]

Yes I presume the rescue locomotive would have been previously working one of the portions, and given platform length and the fact the Edinburg portion seemed busier than the glasgow this was presumably the sensible choice. As I get my fare back and I got a lie in I’m not complaining!

 

[jagardner1984]

Just to clarify - having gone through an extremely painful process with Customer Service to book a couple of journeys on the Glasgow this week - the “view more dates” option revealed 1 or 2 rooms remaining on a handful of dates in coming weeks, and none on the others. I’m sure Edinburgh is v busy too, but the Glasgow is far from empty.

I hope the shorter train is essential for maintenance reasons and not just a hangover from the old (far higher capacity) stock, it seems rather incongruous to turn people away from a train which is substantially subsidised.

 

[JamieL]

Just to clarify - having gone through an extremely painful process with Customer Service to book a couple of journeys on the Glasgow this week - the “view more dates” option revealed 1 or 2 rooms remaining on a handful of dates in coming weeks, and none on the others. I’m sure Edinburgh is v busy too, but the Glasgow is far from empty.

I hope the shorter train is essential for maintenance reasons and not just a hangover from the old (far higher capacity) stock, it seems rather incongruous to turn people away from a train which is substantially subsidised.

I agree on the reduced capacity, it is very frustrating. I have tried to use the CS Highlander on multiple occasions now over the last few weeks with no availability.

 

[43096]

Yes I presume the rescue locomotive would have been previously working one of the portions, and given platform length and the fact the Edinburg portion seemed busier than the glasgow this was presumably the sensible choice. As I get my fare back and I got a lie in I’m not complaining!

It looks like the rescue locomotive was 92033, which was planned to be hauling the Edinburgh portion of your train forward from Carstairs. That’s why there was no split: there was no locomotive for it.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I recall that on previous occasions when the train cioouldn't be divided, either because of lack of motive power or a fault (I think a failure of the coupling at the rear of the train was an issue once) the whole train cannot go to Glasgow because, even in the shorter winter configuration, it won't fit in Glasgow Central. (Edinburgh can, of course - it handles a full-length Highlander every night). So it either goes to Edinburgh or terminates at Motherwell.

Which half is fuller is unlikely to be the determining factor. Hopping from Glasgow to Edinburgh, (or vice versa) will still get you there at a reasonable time (I've done it twice when the Edinburgh was full and the Glasgow still had space - it nicely fills the time between being turfed out of the Sleeper and things starting to open - and during the Festival season Glasgow is usually cheapoer too.

Someone suggested giving Glasgow passengers the option of taking an Avanti from Carlisle to Glasgow. The original post was made at 0738. Looking at RTT the 0756 Avanti was cancelled so the next services to Glasgow were the 0809 Scotrail via Dumfries which arrives at Central at 1035, or the 0913 Transpennine which eventualy left Carlisle half an hour late and got to Glasgow at 1113. The Sleeper got to Edinburgh at 0921.

(The 0651 Transpennine was running half an hour late so had the decision not to run the Sleeper to Glasgow been made a little earlier that might have been an option)

 

[Falcon1200]

Can both portions and three locomotives (the dead one, the rescue loco and the loco to take the train to Polmadie) fit in the platform at Glasgow Central?

Surely a full-length train has to run into Waverley because Glasgow Central can't accommodate it?

Still too long for Glasgow. AIR an 11-coach Pendolino is as long as can fit.

the whole train cannot go to Glasgow

The full length sleeper, even when 16 coaches, has on in many occasions in the past been accommodated at Glasgow Central; IIRC Platform 11 being used, usually when the train had been so delayed south of Carstairs that the Driver and Shunter were no longer available there to carry out the split and loco attachment. The only problem was when the loco to take the ECS to Polmadie was attached as this then stood beyond the platform end blocking other routes. As @43096 says however, perhaps having the dead original loco still in the train was a factor yesterday, although I would have thought the full train would have caused issues at Waverley instead, requiring two of the through platforms there.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I hope the shorter train is essential for maintenance reasons

Yes, it is. This is normal during the winter period.