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I thought it was that the mattresses were thicker, and therefore on the Mk3 they could be folded up in situ - on the Mk5 they must physically be removed from the train. I’m sure there are trends though - on an average night X number are solo travellers and Y number are twin travellers, and therefore you could have some coaches setup for single use, and some for double. Obviously would always be more twins than were to be expected, so would need a “subject to availability” disclaimer, but for those who specifically wanted no upper mattress, the new booking engine is much better at coping with different grades of travel ….
I think the fixed upper bunk is a major defect of the present design or operation in terms of the attractiveness of the sleeper for solo travel. It makes the room seem much more cramped if you're standing up, and either bunk distinctly claustrophobic to try to sleep in - quite apart from the contortions needed to get in and out of bed (already mentioned) and the lack of space to sit up in bed. It's a big step in the wrong direction compared with the previous stock, and I for one now avoid the sleeper after being a regular user for years, entirely for this reason.
You must be very tall - I am 190cm and can sit quite comfortably on the lower bunk with the top one deployed. If they folded it up there would be less space for baggage or the detached ladder.
You must be very tall - I am 190cm and can sit quite comfortably on the lower bunk with the top one deployed. If they folded it up there would be less space for baggage or the detached ladder.
In any case most people want to lie on the bed, not sit on it? The Fort William and Inverness are probably the only exception, but people will often go to the lounge car on those if there's space.\
Luggage is a good point, the upper bunk does provide a handy luggage rack if travelling solo.
The fact that it *can* be folded away (with or without mattress) indicates that during the design process it was felt that enough people would prefer this during solo occupancy to warrant it being made possible.
I thought it was that the mattresses were thicker, and therefore on the Mk3 they could be folded up in situ - on the Mk5 they must physically be removed from the train.
The night riviera folds them/unfolds them on a whim and no longer has fixed formation set up. Indeed, they even have instructions in the cabin for travellers to fold it away/put it down should they so wish
Increases the work of the cleaning team the next day, as it invariably messes up the bedding.
Thanks to ditching the superior BR design of folding shelf and cover over sink which is badly missed for storage.
Increases the work of the cleaning team the next day, as it invariably messes up the bedding.
Thanks to ditching the superior BR design of folding shelf and cover over sink which is badly missed for storage.
When i was travelling on CS last night i was thinkin the same thing. The only capacity now is putting your luggage under the bed, which does not work with a large suitcase. Apart from the folding shelf at the foot of bed and the sink cover there was also the very usful shelf that ran the width of room at high level. The little pull down trays at side of bed were also useful when having breakfast in room. Notwithstanding all that i still think overall the new rooms are better.
When i was travelling on CS last night i was thinkin the same thing. The only capacity now is putting your luggage under the bed, which does not work with a large suitcase. Apart from the folding shelf at the foot of bed and the sink cover there was also the very usful shelf that ran the width of room at high level. The little pull down trays at side of bed were also useful when having breakfast in room. Notwithstanding all that i still think overall the new rooms are better.
I wouldn't say the new classic rooms are better. The Mark 3s were very dated in the fabric, but superior in the layout.
Not sure why anyone thought an Argos Style computer desk pull out drawer and keeping the sink open all night was a better option than a shelf and cover.
I would hope that both beds are changed regardless of whether one was nominally not used. You never know what has been done on it even though it may appear pristine.
Staff on the train don't make announcements because there's a lot of people on the train who are asleep. And do you expect someone in bed awake to get up and find a member of staff?
You tick on the breakfast card if you want to be informed of disruption or not. Presumably they will wake people to tell them the extent of thr delay of they've asked to be informed.
On the Night Riviera when being served breakfast I've always been told we're on time and into Penzance in X minutes.
You tick on the breakfast card if you want to be informed of disruption or not. Presumably they will wake people to tell them the extent of thr delay of they've asked to be informed.
On the Night Riviera when being served breakfast I've always been told we're on time and into Penzance in X minutes.
This makes me think the Night Riviera suffers less from delays - it would be nice to think delays on CS would be rare enough that how they are handled is less of an issues but reality raises its ugly head.
I can see one reason for people not actually on the train needing to know how the service is doing. If you are meeting someone at/near the end of their journey it would be nice to know what you are aiming for. Particularly with tighter and tighter parking restrictions many driving to meet will be under pressure to not arrive too early as well as not too late.
This makes me think the Night Riviera suffers less from delays - it would be nice to think delays on CS would be rare enough that how they are handled is less of an issues but reality raises its ugly head.
I can see one reason for people not actually on the train needing to know how the service is doing. If you are meeting someone at/near the end of their journey it would be nice to know what you are aiming for. Particularly with tighter and tighter parking restrictions many driving to meet will be under pressure to not arrive too early as well as not too late.
Booked to sit at Taunton at least this week. Back in the day when I used to do it regularly it waited at Bristol TM or Westbury for an hour where the two guards used to swap over.
At the moment it's not sitting anywhere and taking a scenic route! But there is now the half an hour at Reading to attach/detach a 57, so that eats up some of the former time.
At the moment it's not sitting anywhere and taking a scenic route! But there is now the half an hour at Reading to attach/detach a 57, so that eats up some of the former time.
Depending on who you listen to, we are technically in autumn according to some. So as an educated guess I would say it's either insurance for leaf fall, or it could of been the unavailability of another 73. I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me will correct me if I'm wide of the mark.
But, particularly when travelling south, many items will be "off" in my experience
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Now I've found this thread I've moved this post here, from the new thread I started.
Having used both the Night Riviera and the Caledonian Sleeper within the past two weeks I feel in a position to compare them.
I slept slightly better in the Mark 3s than the Mark 5s. The ride seemed better - whether this is due to the suspension or Brunel's civil engineering prowess I don't know, but I woke up several times on the Scottish trip but slept until after 6 on the Riviera.
Somehow GWR have found a way of providing more headroom in the bunk beds.
Riviera provides a lid to cover the sink.
In the Riviera sleepers (redesigned since I last used them, but still using Mark 3s) only the top bunk has a convenient shelf to put things like spectacles on (although you can use the sink cover). In the Caledonian sleeper only the bottom bunk has such a shelf.
The ladder to reach the top bunk
- Caledonian: the treads are far too narrow for comfort in bare or stockinged feet.
- Riviera: an ingenious design which folds into the doorframe when not in use, making it easier to get into and out of the bottom bunk. It also has wider rungs.
Lounge car -
- Riviera 36 seats (to serve four sleeping cars).
- Caledonian 21 seats, seven perches (to serve up to six sleeping cars). There is supposed to be a priority system for club class, but in my experience it's first come first served. Same in the lounge at Inverness - we were turned away despite having a club double ticket.
Staff - generally polite, although the Caledonian staff in the Club Car can get a bit officious - mainly because I suspect their Club Car gets much busier than the Riviera's. I was told off for entering the Club Car in my stockinged feet ("health & safety" apparently), although I doubt that the mud-caked walking boots I had left in the cabin would have been much more welcome. Also was told if we weren't having a full meal we had to use the bar stools rather than the proper seats, despite the fact that my companion was on crutches, and her legs wouldn't reach the floor from the stool even when she does have two fully functioning legs.
Arrival. At Euston they can't wait to get rid of you. At Paddington we were given the option (which we took) of not being woken until over an hour after the train had arrived.
Ticketing - I observed that Riviera seemed quite happy to take walk-up passengers in the seating (this was a godsend to many passengers arriving in the late evening at Penzance having had their flights from the Scillies cancelled earlier in the day due to fog), and will even upgrade them to a berth if one is available. (Both services have two seated coaches, but on the Caledonian that means there is only one for each destination)
Not so keen on GWR's refund policy though - no refund at less than seven days notice, only 75% at less than 14 days. And any refund has to be processed by the same means that you made the booking (whether on the GWR website or at a ticket office)
This compares with Caledonian's flexible offer, which allows changes or cancellation at 48 hours notice.
What surprises me most is how Caledonian, with a new design of carriage, have made a much less attractive offer than GWR, who have adapted carriages which are over 40 years old
The Fort William portion is usually shed+ed all year round now.
Inverness seems to have settled down to a pair of 73/9s with a single on Aberdeen. Obviously these may be revised during leaf fall season.
I believe this has been stated before some time ago, but I may be making my first Caledonian Sleeper journey next week if I can get a spare berth and I would appreciate a reminder of which days the Scottish and London attendants work Northbound and Southbound....so that I hopefully get a more relaxed Scottish crew. Thanks in advance!
I believe this has been stated before some time ago, but I may be making my first Caledonian Sleeper journey next week if I can get a spare berth and I would appreciate a reminder of which days the Scottish and London attendants work Northbound and Southbound....so that I hopefully get a more relaxed Scottish crew. Thanks in advance!
But, particularly when travelling south, many items will be "off" in my experience
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Now I've found this thread I've moved this post here, from the new thread I started.
Having used both the Night Riviera and the Caledonian Sleeper within the past two weeks I feel in a position to compare them.
I slept slightly better in the Mark 3s than the Mark 5s. The ride seemed better - whether this is due to the suspension or Brunel's civil engineering prowess I don't know, but I woke up several times on the Scottish trip but slept until after 6 on the Riviera.
That's interesting to hear. My experience is that I've generally slept better on the Mark 5s than I did on the Mark 3s. But it's difficult to know how much of that is due to external factors (perhaps I've been more tired? perhaps I've found the perfect quantity of single malt to consume in the lounge car?).
Comparing CS Mk 3 vs Mk 5, I also think the Waverley shunt is now much smoother and therefore less likely to disrupt sleep especially northbound.
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