Caledonian Sleeper

[PG]

Full ticket check in the seats last time I travelled!

I'm inclined to think it didn't extend to the cabins, which is what is relevant to the ticket + room supplement issue?

 

[najaB]

I'm inclined to think it didn't extend to the cabins, which is what is relevant to the ticket + room supplement issue?

It's been a while since I did the Sleeper, but they definitely used to check tickets on boarding at Euston. Though, as others have said, they were more concerned with making sure you were in the correct berth than that you had paid the 'right' amount.

 

[BRX]

Once the train has departed any extra fare is better than nothing - an unsold berth is akin to a perishable commodity so I'd argue that it should be a discounted rate as the potential occupant can just say no thanks and remain in their seat.

They should come through to the seated coach and do a live auction for empty berths...

 

[airantraigh]

problem is trying to find any... all of the berths esp on the lowlander can sell out quite far in advance

 

[PG]

problem is trying to find any... all of the berths esp on the lowlander can sell out quite far in advance

Doesn't necessarily mean that all bookings actually show up...

 

[XAM2175]

Once the train has departed any extra fare is better than nothing - an unsold berth is akin to a perishable commodity so I'd argue that it should be a discounted rate as the potential occupant can just say no thanks and remain in their seat.

Agreed. This was the same principle as the late-lamented Bargain Berths. Sell them off cheap a day or two in advance if nobody has paid full price.

They should come through to the seated coach and do a live auction for empty berths...

This is all true, but it needs careful management in order to avoid devaluing the berths - otherwise people will come to view the last-minute prices as the "natural" price for the product.

Taken to extremes you end up with something like "first class" on domestic airlines in the US, where a huge chunk of passengers basically never buy market-price tickets but instead wait for upgrades to be auctioned, or even simply handed-out free to loyalty-programme members. Over time those passengers have come to view the upgrades as something to which they're effectively entitled.

However, in this one particular circumstance, from a yield-management perspective I find myself agreeing with this very astute observation:

I suspect that in practice Caledonian Sleeper would end up with more revenue from a Seated Single plus room supplement than its ORCATS share of an inter-available fare plus the supplement anyway.

 

[xotGD]

They could auction off any empty berths to the highest bidders in the seats.

 

[philthetube]

They could auction off any empty berths to the highest bidders in the seats.

that could be great on a quiet night.

 

[Sunnyside]

There's an article on the front page of the BBC business section today about sleeper services making a comeback across Europe, discussing the reasons why with quotes from passengers etc. Not one word in the article about sleeper services here in the UK, which I find totally bizarre given that this is a BBC article. It's not like there aren't recent developments (Scot Gov nationalisation, relatively recent refurbishment etc) and it would have been easy to get a couple of quotes from passengers about why they use the service and what they think of it. Surely it would make the article more relevant to most of the readership in the UK? Sometimes it seems like we have a national aversion to promoting ourselves or anything positive. Rant over!

Link for anyone interested.

Why sleeper trains are being revived across Europe

A number of rail operators are launching new sleeper train services across the continent.

www.bbc.com

 

[XAM2175]

There's an article on the front page of the BBC business section today about sleeper services making a comeback across Europe, discussing the reasons why with quotes from passengers etc. Not one word in the article about sleeper services here in the UK, which I find totally bizarre given that this is a BBC article.

Could it perhaps be because the article is focused on "new" and "revived" services, which the Caledonian Sleeper (and the Night Riviera, for that matter) are not?

 

[najaB]

Could it perhaps be because the article is focused on "new" and "revived" services, which the Caledonian Sleeper (and the Night Riviera, for that matter) are not?

They're also, to some people's minds, not in Europe either.

 

[43096]

They're also, to some people's minds, not in Europe either.

If the U.K. isn’t in Europe, then where is it? Perhaps my map is wrong?

 

[BRX]

I think we are all quite familiar with the fact that "Europe" is very commonly used as shorthand for "Continental Europe", in the UK. Even by those of us who are in no doubt that the UK is in fact, culturally and geographically part of Europe.

 

[najaB]

If the U.K. isn’t in Europe, then where is it? Perhaps my map is wrong?

"Fog in The Channel, Europe cut off".

There is a sizable number of people who consider Europe to be "them over there what speak foreign".

 

[43066]

"Fog in The Channel, Europe cut off".

There is a sizable number of people who consider Europe to be "them over there what speak foreign".

Have you ever flown a light aircraft across The Channel? Rest assured, it can happen.

However I think you’re confusing “Europe” with “the EU”: they’re two very different concepts.

It’s an issue many staunch remainers suffer from, in my experience .

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Mar 2023 ==

If the U.K. isn’t in Europe, then where is it? Perhaps my map is wrong?

Indeed, and nobody even on the leave side of the debate ever appeared to suggest that the UK geographically isn’t in Europe, so I’m unsure as to why the point has been raised, other than some lame dig at Brexit!

Back on topic: how is the sleeper recently? I haven’t used it since the new stock was introduced, I am considering sampling it this year.

 

[Bald Rick]

Back on topic: how is the sleeper recently? I haven’t used it since the new stock was introduced, I am considering sampling it this year.

It’s been 4 years since I used it, but I have only today been talking to a couple of people who have used it recently who thought it was excellent. And also excellent value - which I know is not a view shared by many on this thread. However the fact that it routinely sells out rather suggests that many people think it is good value

 

[43066]

It’s been 4 years since I used it, but I have only today been talking to a couple of people who have used it recently who thought it was excellent. And also excellent value - which I know is not a view shared by many on this thread. However the fact that it routinely sells out rather suggests that many people think it is good value

Thanks. Similar length of time for me, I think. Possibly a little longer.

I’m keen to sample the new stock now that its teething issues seem to have been dealt with, and may make a weekend of it. Speaking of value, I think they offer a priv discount for the cabins, too?

 

[Bald Rick]

Thanks. Similar length of time for me, I think. Possibly a little longer.

I’m keen to sample the new stock now that its teething issues seem to have been dealt with, and may make a weekend of it. Speaking of value, I think they offer a priv discount for the cabins, too?

Yes, 75% off, but you will have to get in early for the priv discount. The quotas on each train for priv travel are typically only a couple of cabins, and if you want to go at popular times these will go early. I booked mine 12 weeks out, and they were for Sunday or Monday northbound. Getting a Thursday or Friday northbound will be tricky (but is doable).

 

[43066]

Yes, 75% off, but you will have to get in early for the priv discount. The quotas on each train for priv travel are typically only a couple of cabins, and if you want to go at popular times these will go early. I booked mine 12 weeks out, and they were for Sunday or Monday northbound. Getting a Thursday or Friday northbound will be tricky (but is doable).

Many thanks, and a good shout. I’d better get booking!

 

[najaB]

Have you ever flown a light aircraft across The Channel? Rest assured, it can happen.

However I think you’re confusing “Europe” with “the EU”: they’re two very different concepts.

Perhaps you didn't recognise the "Fog in Channel" reference, but it was a paraphrase of an actual newspaper headline from the 1930s, so nothing to do with the EU or Leave/Remain, old bean.

 

[43066]

Perhaps you didn't recognise the "Fog in Channel" reference, but it was a paraphrase of an actual newspaper headline from the 1930s, so nothing to do with the EU or Leave/Remain, old bean.

I vaguely remember it in my GCSE history course. I wasn’t reading newspapers in the 1930s, so I’m not the quickest study .

I still think you’re might be a little confused as to whether Europe means the EU. Read up on your geography and geopolitical history and you’ll soon work it out, old bean.

Regarding the rest, my experience of it is being thwarted by fog as a VFR pilot, and having to beat our way (expensively) back to Biggin on the Bump. Subsequent sorties to continental Europe were fabulous, both France and Belgium. And I can confirm we are linked to the same geographical continent, old fruit.

Fully back on topic!

I can’t wait to try the Caledonian again. It’ll be one damnsight cheaper than flying myself to France and back, especially with priv discount. Can’t say fairer than that.

 

[Cowley]

Enough of the Brexit stuff already!

 

[03_179]

SWMBO and I are on the sleeper tomorrow night.

Not been on one since 1991 when we came back from Inverness.

Once I'm back and sorted/recovered I'll be writing up my experience on the trip.

 

[najaB]

SWMBO and I are on the sleeper tomorrow night.

Once I'm back and sorted/recovered I'll be writing up my experience on the trip.

Heading north or south?

 

[03_179]

North ...

 

[al78]

I am tempted to use the sleeper later this year to cycle the Gaick Pass over a weekend. Unfortunately at £270 each way for the cheapest cabin which equates to being more expensive than my week's self catering accommodation in Braemar last June, it is hard to justify. It would be cheaper to book a day train in advance, take a couple of days leave and spend a couple of nights in a B&B.

 

[BRX]

£270 each way

A scenario where I'd look into the room supplement option: £130 each way plus a £205 super off peak return London-Inverness (which I think is valid?) would be cheaper. Still not cheap, but cheaper.

Or is there a quota for room supplements which means they run out before the all-in prices do?

 

[al78]

A scenario where I'd look into the room supplement option: £130 each way plus a £205 super off peak return London-Inverness (which I think is valid?) would be cheaper. Still not cheap, but cheaper.

Or is there a quota for room supplements which means they run out before the all-in prices do?

If I understand this correctly, does a room supplement apply in addition to a standard ticket purchased but where using the sleeper is a viable option (i.e. not purchasing seated accommodation on the sleeper). For example, I buy a ticket from London to Inverness which isn't tied to a specific train, I can buy a room supplement and travel on the sleeper in a cabin?

 

[alistairlees]

If I understand this correctly, does a room supplement apply in addition to a standard ticket purchased but where using the sleeper is a viable option (i.e. not purchasing seated accommodation on the sleeper). For example, I buy a ticket from London to Inverness which isn't tied to a specific train, I can buy a room supplement and travel on the sleeper in a cabin?

Yes

 

[najaB]

Yes

Subject to any route restrictions. For example, you wouldn't (AFAIK) be able to use a 'VIA YORK' ticket to travel between London and Edinburgh.