Caledonian Sleeper

[driverd]

I've taken the sleeper five times between Aberdeen and London and the first three times the Aberdeen leg didn't run. The last time I arrived into Euston 90 minutes late (though that wasn't the sleeper's fault).

On the bright side, delay repay means it's quite economical!

You're definitely incredibly unlucky. I must have used the sleeper atleast 20 times over the last 10 years and only once had a cancellation.

I find it very reliable indeed.

 

[AberdeenBill]

On the bright side, delay repay means it's quite economical!

Indeed, on my last trip, i received the full refund for the return leg. Makes a massive difference and normally would not really bother me to be a bit late, although on this occasion i needed to get to work.

 

[philthetube]

I wonder what the £95 subsidy would be if there was no delay repay to pay?

 

[Bletchleyite]

£95 is surprisingly not that bad. It sounds high, but in reality with improvements in quality it should be possible to get it breaking even, which is surprising.

I'd have thought it would be far, far higher than that.

 

[Cowley]

Ok just to keep this one on the current subject I’ve split off some of the posts into the new thread below.

Sweet dreams.

Sleeper trains: Individual sleeping pods or sharing a cabin with a stranger. Which is more preferable?

Something something "police advice" was what CS said when I asked them a while ago. However my guess is they fill the trains up anyway so there's no incentive to allow sharing. Perhaps also some solo travelers who would have otherwise shared opt for single rooms. mods note - split from this...

www.railforums.co.uk

Edit: also some posts relating to reprioritising the Fort William/Aberdeen portions have been moved to the following thread:

Caledonian Sleeper: Should Fort William portion be prioritised over Aberdeen?

Ive used the West Highland sleeper at various frequencies over 30 years which means using the Aberdeen Lounge car northbound. I like to think Im fairly sociable but Ive yet to meet another passenger actually travelling to an Aberdeen line station. I think that the business case is likely that...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[williamn]

I just booked for London to Aberdeen for March and have just noted the train is scheduled to leave Euston at 20.15, an hour earlier than usual I think. Anyone know why? Can't see this mentioned on the CS service alterations pages. Should I presume boarding will be at the very early time of 19.30?

 

[The Planner]

I just booked for London to Aberdeen for March and have just noted the train is scheduled to leave Euston at 20.15, an hour earlier than usual I think. Anyone know why? Can't see this mentioned on the CS service alterations pages. Should I presume boarding will be at the very early time of 19.30?

Carstairs, so it needs time to mess about reversing etc at Wembley to go ECML.

 

[Trainbike46]

Carstairs, so it needs time to mess about reversing etc at Wembley to go ECML.

If it's going up the ECML, why not just have it start at King's X?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it's going up the ECML, why not just have it start at King's X?

I'm fairly sure this has happened in the past but the formation has to be shortened as there's no platform long enough for the whole thing.

 

[popeter45]

I'm fairly sure this has happened in the past but the formation has to be shortened as there's no platform long enough for the whole thing.

am i having a false memory or didnt they do that during the pandemic when the reformed what route they ran leading to shorter consists?

 

[Trainbike46]

ah, that explains it then!

 

[Blindtraveler]

Sleeper out of kings cross is just carnage for the passengers. Shortened formation, LNER staff not really interested in providing any kind of customer service for it it and just out and out chaos. The Wembley reverse is slow and no doubt resource hungry but I suspect from a customer satisfaction level for hotel on rails HQ it's just easier this way

 

[Essexman]

I wonder what the £95 subsidy would be if there was no delay repay to pay?

I would have thought that most of it is claimed back from other parties by CS.
I think that most of the delays are due to factors that would be attributed to Network Rail or to the company supplying locomotive haulage.

 

[A7rud]

I notice that coaches 15012/12 15111/12/13 have not been used lately. Are they laid up for the winter months, and if so. does anyone know where they are stored?

 

[merry]

The Wembley reverse is slow and no doubt resource hungry

Actually, given the stock is hauled into Eusypn by a pilot, maybe not so much. Form the train in reverse, main loco on the buffer end and have it hauled out of Euron to Wembley by the pilot. Reverse only requires the pilot uncoupled at Wembley, instead of running light fron Euston after the train departs. Likely similar resource use, but the reverse is slower for the service train of course.
Unless I am grossly oversimplifying...

 

[deltic]

£95 is surprisingly not that bad. It sounds high, but in reality with improvements in quality it should be possible to get it breaking even, which is surprising.

I'd have thought it would be far, far higher than that.

Interested to know you think they will turn a £95 per head subsidy into breakeven. I used to use it occasionally for work but find it difficult to justify the £200+ fare for the present service now.

 

[JonathanH]

I notice that coaches 15012/12 15111/12/13 have not been used lately. Are they laid up for the winter months, and if so. does anyone know where they are stored?

They don't exist. The fleet is
15001-15011
15101-15110
15201-15214
15301-15340

(75 vehicles)

 

[Siemens Trains]

Interested to know you think they will turn a £95 per head subsidy into breakeven. I used to use it occasionally for work but find it difficult to justify the £200+ fare for the present service now.

That may be your own position (and mine) but I often see sleeper journeys fully booked, even with berths priced in excess of £200. Squeezing another £95 from the average head may not be easy but it doesn't sound totally impossible. Might be a different matter if it was £950 per head.
Having said that, is it particularly important to break even on routes carrying rich people or those who don't need to travel? Setting fares could become very subjective rather than the consistent, rigorous and logical system we have today....... Actually, maybe it's worth a try after all.

 

[JamieL]

Given the vast taxpayer subsidies to the railway network, I am not sure.why people are getting hot under the collar about the Caledonian Sleeper.

 

[Meerkat]

Given the vast taxpayer subsidies to the railway network, I am not sure.why people are getting hot under the collar about the Caledonian Sleeper.

Thats how subsidies get so big, if everything is "its just a bit more". Look after the pennies etc
Also subsidies should have a benefit to society - subsidising wealthy folk's holidays is pretty questionable.

 

[JamieL]

Thats how subsidies get so big, if everything is "its just a bit more". Look after the pennies etc
Also subsidies should have a benefit to society - subsidising wealthy folk's holidays is pretty questionable.

It is supporting connectivity for communities across Scotland- as well as mitigating the impact upon Scotland of the DfT management of the WCML.

 

[Trainbike46]

It is supporting connectivity for communities across Scotland- as well as mitigating the impact upon Scotland of the DfT management of the WCML.

The sleeper is clearly important for connectivity for communities on the west highland line and north of Inverness.

I do wonder how @Bletchleyite would make up the subsidy difference, so would be interested if you would be willing to share (possibly in a new thread?)

 

[Meerkat]

The sleeper is clearly important for connectivity for communities on the west highland line and north of Inverness.

I do wonder how @Bletchleyite would make up the subsidy difference, so would be interested if you would be willing to share (possibly in a new thread?)

Can locals afford such significant fares?

 

[Trainbike46]

Can locals afford such significant fares?

Some will be able to, some won't
connectivity isn't just important for locals, tourism is an important part of the highland economy - and there are ways to travel on the sleeper that aren't that expensive (I will not be sharing details for obvious reasons)

 

[jfowkes]

If the main reason for the sleeper existing is providing an extra couple of services around the Highlands, that could be done far cheaper with a few extra DMUs for ScotRail.

 

[Trainbike46]

If the main reason for the sleeper existing is providing an extra couple of services around the Highlands, that could be done far cheaper with a few extra DMUs for ScotRail.

As i understand it, the reason the sleeper exists is because scotgov believes the link to london is important for places north of the central belt.

 

[Meerkat]

As i understand it, the reason the sleeper exists is because scotgov believes the link to london is important for places north of the central belt.

There are cheaper and quicker ways to get from London to Scotland. The number of passengers it brings is tiny, and I would bet almost all of them were going anyway.
I reckon it’s political. The Scots politicians ranted about Westminster cutting the service then UKG called their bluff by offering to pay half (??) the cost of the new trains. So now they are stuck with it and had to make it unaffordable to most in order to reduce the subsidy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do wonder how @Bletchleyite would make up the subsidy difference, so would be interested if you would be willing to share (possibly in a new thread?)

I wasn't thinking any more complex than upping fares, particularly in the premium cabins. It books full a lot of the time so I think you probably would get that.

 

[Meerkat]

I wasn't thinking any more complex than upping fares, particularly in the premium cabins. It books full a lot of the time so I think you probably would get that.

Are there set prices then, rather than pure yield pricing?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are there set prices then, rather than pure yield pricing?

The fares are yield managed, yes, though as with all Advances there are fixed tiers with quotas. Fare increases can be done by increasing the price on those tiers and by changing the balance of availability towards the higher ones.