Caledonian Sleeper

[Norther Monkey]

Yes there's not much to write home about between Aberdeen and Inverness. Some nice views between Dyce and Inverurie which I used to like looking at when heading home from working in Aberdeen, back when one could enjoy a beer on Scotrail!

I've seen similar views expressed a few times on this forum. I travelled this route earlier in the week. Whilst no Settle-Carlisle or HML most of it was very pleasant on a bright autumn morning. In particular Inverurie to Keith had some lovely rolling Aberdeenshire countryside.

 

[31160]

With the strikes affecting the Saturday morning arrivals, is there anybody in the know to be able to confirm that the ECSs to Inverness, Ft William and Aberdeen will run Sunday daytime to ensure the services run as booked Sunday evening

 

[Scotrail84]

With the strikes affecting the Saturday morning arrivals, is there anybody in the know to be able to confirm that the ECSs to Inverness, Ft William and Aberdeen will run Sunday daytime to ensure the services run as booked Sunday evening

Realtime Trains | 5M16 1030 Polmadie Car M.D. to Inverness | 02/10/2022

Real-time train running information for 5M16 1030 departure from Polmadie Car M.D. to Inverness on 02/10/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Caleb2010]

I noticed that it loses and gains coaches at a few places on the way, can’t see there being a few sleeper coaches at Forres for it to exchange.

Obviously the split at Aberdeen is the Aberdeen portion coming off the train but Forres!!!!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Realtime Trains | 5M16 1030 Polmadie Car M.D. to Inverness | 02/10/2022

Real-time train running information for 5M16 1030 departure from Polmadie Car M.D. to Inverness on 02/10/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I noticed that it loses and gains coaches at a few places on the way, can’t see there being a few sleeper coaches at Forres for it to exchange.

Obviously the split at Aberdeen is the Aberdeen portion coming off the train but Forres!!!!

Stab in the dark.
Loses/gains/swaps loco ?.
Switch to road coaches for part of journey ?.

 

[Caleb2010]

It’s ECS, wouldn’t need road coaches for ecs!!

Could be loco at Aberdeen, but still can’t get my head around why either at Forres!!

 

[zwk500]

Stab in the dark.
Loses/gains/swaps loco ?.
Switch to road coaches for part of journey ?.

Most obvious answer is data error.

 

[adrock1976]

Most obvious answer is data error.

It could be said that there is no such thing as data (or computer) error, as the data is displayed as how a human being has inputted it or programmed the computer.

A computer can only do and output what information and instructions a human being has input.

This is how I have never bought into the phrase "there must have been an error with the computer" as a ruse to cover up dreadful customer service.

 

[zwk500]

It could be said that there is no such thing as data (or computer) error, as the data is displayed as how a human being has inputted it or programmed the computer.

A computer can only do and output what information and instructions a human being has input.

This is how I have never bought into the phrase "there must have been an error with the computer" as a ruse to cover up dreadful customer service.

Not 100% correct in this case - the system is set up to automatically append data codes to stops depending on various train types, which the planner is then required to check and modify accordingly. Technically this would be a failure of data validation not data input.

 

[marks87]

It could be said that there is no such thing as data (or computer) error, as the data is displayed as how a human being has inputted it or programmed the computer.

A computer can only do and output what information and instructions a human being has input.

This is how I have never bought into the phrase "there must have been an error with the computer" as a ruse to cover up dreadful customer service.

At least 555 sub-postmasters would respectfully disagree.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It could be said that there is no such thing as data (or computer) error, as the data is displayed as how a human being has inputted it or programmed the computer.

A computer can only do and output what information and instructions a human being has input.

This is how I have never bought into the phrase "there must have been an error with the computer" as a ruse to cover up dreadful customer service.

Crap in = crap out. The thing with computers is that they are fast and accurate. But they will not use common sense and question the answer they arrive at or the data they are given.

At least 555 sub-postmasters would respectfully disagree.

Very true and a very important point. That the powers at the top could not consider the idea that the software was badly written and badly tested. A blind faith in their beloved new and expensive system. Conjecture follows on my part but but I consider it likely that they rushed and glossed over minor imperfections.

As a former programmer I have often seen and fixed errors that were just plain bad programming. Other errors could be described as features. One program doing a job that is in fact defined differently for two or more other departments. Oh yes I have seen (executed) bug fixes that obviously created a new bug for another department. The fact that no one takes the time to notice is depressing at the least AND can be down right dangerous to your civil liberties.

 

[Trainbike46]

Does someone know how reliable CS services are?

Specifically, if I were to take a CS service Glasgow to london (arriving at 0707) to connect into the 0816 eurostar service, am I taking a big risk of missing the eurostar?

 

[D6130]

Assuming that you will be travelling standard class on Eurostar, I wouldn't rely on it. You're supposed to check-in at St Pancras an hour before departure and the queues can be long and slow at the moment....not to mention the walking time from Euston - which could be 10 or 15 minutes, depending on the traffic lights and how much luggage you are carrying or wheeling

 

[185143]

Does someone know how reliable CS services are?

Specifically, if I were to take a CS service Glasgow to london (arriving at 0707) to connect into the 0816 eurostar service, am I taking a big risk of missing the eurostar?

In a word...

 

[trebor79]

Does someone know how reliable CS services are?

Specifically, if I were to take a CS service Glasgow to london (arriving at 0707) to connect into the 0816 eurostar service, am I taking a big risk of missing the eurostar?

It usually arrives quite early and IME they like to turf you out well before 7.
But there's always risk of a very long delay, and as other have said you need to factor in check in times at St Pancras.
Personally in this case I'd get an evening train down and stay in London overnight. Somewhere like the Zedwell off Leicester Square (in the old Trocadero building) can be surprisingly cheap and peaceful.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does someone know how reliable CS services are?

Specifically, if I were to take a CS service Glasgow to london (arriving at 0707) to connect into the 0816 eurostar service, am I taking a big risk of missing the eurostar?

I wouldn't. I would go for a Eurostar an hour or two later and if on time go for a leisurely breakfast.

 

[Mag_seven]

Does someone know how reliable CS services are?

Specifically, if I were to take a CS service Glasgow to london (arriving at 0707) to connect into the 0816 eurostar service, am I taking a big risk of missing the eurostar?

Does your ticket have CIV protection? If so provided your connection time is legitimate then in the event of late running you can get booked on the next available Eurostar. However I don't think an 07.07 arrival at Euston connecting into an 08.16 departure from St Pancras International is legitimate for CIV protection.

 

[D6130]

Does your ticket have CIV protection? If so provided your connection time is legitimate then in the event of late running you can get booked on the next available Eurostar. However I don't think an 07.07 arrival at Euston connecting into an 08.16 departure from St Pancras International is legitimate for CIV protection.

Is Caledonian Sleeper a member of CIV? I would be rather surprised if they were.

 

[31160]

Hello I was on the Ft William beds last night (Sunday) and RTT has it up to Westerton and I saw Motherwell and Carstairs on the way to Edinburgh,I assume it went Central Low Level on the way? Anyone able to confirm

 

[JonathanH]

Hello I was on the Ft William beds last night (Sunday) and RTT has it up to Westerton and I saw Motherwell and Carstairs on the way to Edinburgh,I assume it went Central Low Level on the way? Anyone able to confirm

Yes, via Glasgow Central Low Level and Whifflet
https://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackI...=TD&Detailed=True&Reverse=True&Estimate=False

 

[31160]

Yes, via Glasgow Central Low Level and Whifflet
https://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackI...=TD&Detailed=True&Reverse=True&Estimate=False

Lovely thanks

 

[ajrm]

Is Caledonian Sleeper a member of CIV? I would be rather surprised if they were.

The point is that the OP should buy a Caledonian Sleeper ticket to the destination London International CIV, assuming they've already bought the Eurostar ticket, which then allows travel on the next available train if the connection is missed. Not sure if there's a minimum connection time to qualify though.

 

[island]

Does your ticket have CIV protection? If so provided your connection time is legitimate then in the event of late running you can get booked on the next available Eurostar. However I don't think an 07.07 arrival at Euston connecting into an 08.16 departure from St Pancras International is legitimate for CIV protection.

Minimum connection time is:
Euston 15 minutes
Euston to London Intl CIV 8 minutes
London Intl CIV 35 minutes
Total 58 minutes, so it is a valid connection. Not one that I'd chance booking myself, though...

 

[Techniquest]

Minimum connection time is:
Euston 15 minutes
Euston to London Intl CIV 8 minutes
London Intl CIV 35 minutes
Total 58 minutes, so it is a valid connection. Not one that I'd chance booking myself, though...

Nor would I, even if it is technically valid. I would allow a bare minimum of 2 hours, partly for connecting, partly for food but also partly to have a good stretch of legs etc after being on the sleeper all night and ahead of another lengthy sit-down.

Of course, the better way to do it is to go to London the day before and be sure of the connection working.

 

[alistairlees]

The point is that the OP should buy a Caledonian Sleeper ticket to the destination London International CIV, assuming they've already bought the Eurostar ticket, which then allows travel on the next available train if the connection is missed. Not sure if there's a minimum connection time to qualify though.

These were removed at least 5 years ago

 

[XAM2175]

These were removed at least 5 years ago

They show on BR Fares:

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

Though I accept that this is no indication that they're actually available to purchase.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Presumably you could add a Sleeper supplement to the relevant Euro Saver as an alternative?

Anecdotally, though, Eurostar are reasonable about it if you leave a sensible gap. TOCs not necessarily quite as much so, nor connections on the mainland if there are any.

 

[ScottDarg]

Scottish Transport Minister Jenny Gilruth has announced that the current Serco sleeper contract will be terminated on 25/06/2023 and that work is underway to determine how services can continue to be delivered after that date:-

Ministerial decision on Serco Caledonian Sleeper contract

Transport Minister Jenny Gilruth has today confirmed that a decision has been made in respect of the Serco Caledonian Sleeper contract.

In an answer to Parliament Ms Gilruth said:

“I can confirm that today Serco Caledonian Sleepers Limited has been advised that its proposal to rebase the Franchise Agreement with Scottish Ministers for the provision of Caledonian Sleeper rail services has been rejected on the grounds of not representing value for money to the public.

“Additionally, I can confirm that a notice was served today which confirms that the Scottish Ministers will terminate the Franchise Agreement with Serco Caledonian Sleepers Limited on 25 June 2023.

“Work is underway to determine arrangements for the continued provision of Caledonian Sleeper rail services beyond 25 June 2023 and this will be updated to Parliament once determined.

“It is worth noting that Serco Caledonian Sleepers Limited has, broadly, delivered well and significantly improved Caledonian Sleeper services over the last 7 years.”

Ministerial decision on Serco Caledonian Sleeper contract | Transport Scotland

www.transport.gov.scot

 

[Speed43125]

Thread on Contract not being extended here:

Serco Caledonian Sleeper contract will NOT be extended

https://twitter.com/transcotland/status/1577624020652007424?s=46&t=PQgh7bv8yB3Wz-OIiiNxUg Serco Caledonian Sleeper’s current agreement will come to an end on 25 June 2023. @JennyGilruth says that the decision has been taken to ensure the Sleeper service represents value for money. Read more...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Mag_seven]

For discussion of the decision to terminate the Serco CS contract, please use this thread:

Serco Caledonian Sleeper contract will NOT be extended

https://twitter.com/transcotland/status/1577624020652007424?s=46&t=PQgh7bv8yB3Wz-OIiiNxUg Serco Caledonian Sleeper’s current agreement will come to an end on 25 June 2023. @JennyGilruth says that the decision has been taken to ensure the Sleeper service represents value for money. Read more...

www.railforums.co.uk