Caledonian Sleeper

[Kite159]

Oh yes, the 'Cally Insomnie' experience is how I used to describe it. Comfortable seats on the MK2s, to be fair, but the brake noise was never fun and the lack of acceptable temperature control never helped matters. You were guaranteed a rubbish night if there were no eye masks in the seat pocket, happened to me more than once!

Thankfully, the days of doing sleeper journeys on the seats are long behind me. Same with doing so by coach, I'd rather not make the journey than book onto the seats or onto a coach! It's no doubt better now, but I still wouldn't do it again through choice. Too old for that nonsense!

Ah the old temperature control on the Mk2s where it could be roasting hot one stage before turning into a freezer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ah the old temperature control on the Mk2s where it could be roasting hot one stage before turning into a freezer.

The Mk2 seated coaches had a very odd heating arrangement which appeared to be some sort of blown-air heating from under the floor, which seemed to flip-flop mechanically using some sort of baffle from one end of the coach to the other (you could hear it doing so). I've never come across that arrangement in any other rolling stock. It was about as useful as lighting a match and waving it out of the droplight.

I've long wondered why they were like that rather than standard ankle-cooking radiators with roof level aircon, but never quite found out.

 

[181]

Is there such a thing as a comfortable seated sleeper coach?

Compartment stock if it's empty enough? (Not great with more than two people in a compartment, obviously).

I once spent a night in a German coach where if I remember rightly the whole seat tilted back quite a long way, a bit like the chairs that the blood donation service use but with more padding. It wasn't as good as a couchette but I think I got more sleep than I'd expect on the way to Scotland.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Compartment stock if it's empty enough? (Not great with more than two people in a compartment, obviously).

I once spent a night in a German coach where if I remember rightly the whole seat tilted back quite a long way, a bit like the chairs that the blood donation service use but with more padding. It wasn't as good as a couchette but I think I got more sleep than I'd expect on the way to Scotland.

Apart from a proper sleeper or couchette - or maybe a half-empty compartment - the only time I remember having a half-decent night's sleep travelling in a seat (whether on a train, ship, coach or plane) is one of the times I was in Scandinavia years back. I think it must have been either heading north from Helsinki one night, up to Kemi or somesuch; or maybe it was an overnight leg of the journey coming back down "the other side" in Sweden afterwards. However it was mid-summer at the time, and for much of my time over there it hardly got dark overnight - I found this had an effect on me, making me need very little sleep. So perhaps it wasn't really the wonders of Scandiwegian railway carriage seating which was responsible for making me think I'd got a good night's sleep!

 

[BRX]

The seats used to be a cheap way of getting to Fort William or Inverness - at around the £40 or £50 mark each way, they cost the same or a bit less than the best you can generally expect to do with an advance ticket booked some time beforehand. And while you couldn't be guaranteed there'd be any on a walk-up basis, mostly you could get one at moderately short notice.

The pricing has now changed though, and Inverness at least seems to be £75 for a seat. While that's not ludicrously expensive, and it's still a bit less (per leg) than a super off peak return, it's no longer the cheapest option, as you can often do better than that using advance tickets on day trains.

For me it's swung my preference towards just getting the day train if I want to do the journey at reasonable cost. Doing the seats (for me at least) partly wipes out the next day thanks to not really getting any sleep, and that was worth accepting in exchange for saving some cash, but if I can just travel on a day train, for less, then the argument for the sleeper seats is considerably weakened.

 

[paul1609]

On Saturday just gone there was a missing day train due to staff illness between Fort William and the Oban portion at Crianlarich. We were bussed via Glencoe, which proved to be incredibly scenic and 20 minutes quicker!

You were unlucky if it only saved 20 mins, timewise rail has not been competitive with road since the Ballachulish bridge opened in the late 1970s. Most locals would use the bus in preference to the train.

 

[Falcon1200]

the only time I remember having a half-decent night's sleep travelling in a seat (whether on a train, ship, coach or plane) is one of the times I was in Scandinavia years back.

I once had an excellent sleep stretched out in a German compartment en route overnight to Munich. However towards the end of the journey the train doubled as a commuter service and I awoke, dishevelled and drooling, to see four smartly dressed German commuters staring at me from the seat opposite.....

 

[InOban]

You were unlucky if it only saved 20 mins, timewise rail has not been competitive with road since the Ballachulish bridge opened in the late 1970s. Most locals would use the bus in preference to the train.

And not just because it's quicker. The coach seats are more comfortable and warmer in winter.

 

[Blindtraveler]

If the whl did not have tourists and freight to prop it up it would long since have been done away with and given over for example to the National cycle network as economically it is a basket case.

 

[Essexman]

So was the big announcement on 7th really just a new advert?

 

[Bletchleyite]

And not just because it's quicker. The coach seats are more comfortable and warmer in winter.

Matter of opinion there. The actual coach seats may be better, but they're narrower and have much less legroom, while I generally find coaches too hot - you can put a jacket on, I can't strip off.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I don't think anyone booking a seat on any sleeper train anywhere is expecting to have a great nights sleep. I remember doing long distance trains in Europe and North America on seats and barely slept a wink, but didn't expect otherwise. Even when I got a double seat I'd have to curl up or stretch out awkwardly to get anything close to lie flat sleep and you can't set your own temperature or light levels or minimise noise and disturbance from others...but then no one could reasonably expect to do so in an open seated coach.

But is the same on a long haul flight. No one books a cheap economy seat to the far East expecting to get 8 hours sleep and arrive fully refreshed. If you want a better chance of that you buy the product that is specifically designed to be and is marketed as a bed.

I am one of the lucky ones then. On 12 hour flights I used to sleep SOLIDLY for 9 or so hours. I put it down to years of commuting on 2HAPs from Sole Street to Victoria / Holborn Viaduct !. I would not pay £75 for that option on the sleeper though.

 

[InOban]

Matter of opinion there. The actual coach seats may be better, but they're narrower and have much less legroom, while I generally find coaches too hot - you can put a jacket on, I can't strip off.

The coaches are air-conditioned, I think.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The coaches are air-conditioned, I think.

Most coaches are air-conditioned, but in my experience the temperature is generally set too warm for me.

I've used that coach before (due to the long-time lack of a Sunday morning train meaning it was the only way to get back to the South East that day - taking the evening one you couldn't get much further than the Central Belt) but I'd take a 156 in preference any day.

 

[DelW]

Compartment stock if it's empty enough? (Not great with more than two people in a compartment, obviously).

I remember as a teenager (so many decades ago), a large group of us travelling to a scout camp in Scotland via an overnight train from Birmingham New St to Glasgow Central. There were eight of us per reserved compartment, and we spent some time trying to work out a way of arranging ourselves so everyone could sleep. Suffice to say none of them really worked!

 

[D6130]

but I'd take a 156 in preference any day.

Have you travelled on a refurbished ScotRail 156 with Fainsa Sophia seats for five and a half hours from Glasgow to Mallaig or vice-versa?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Have you travelled on a refurbished ScotRail 156 with Fainsa Sophia seats for five and a half hours from Glasgow to Mallaig or vice-versa?

The refurbished ScotRail 156s do not have the awful Sophia, they have the contoured-based ironing board, which I find a very good seat. I've not done 5.5 hours on one, but I've done Northern Manchester Airport-Barrow (about 2 hours if I recall) on those, and the Southern MKC-East Croydon throughout (about 2 hours) on original ironing boards with no issues. I've also done the S&C on a Northern 158 with the same seats and it was great - bags of legroom on the original fully aligned layout. It's not a Grammer IC3000, but it's really not bad. I find the same level of comfort on the contoured-base ironing board as the Grammer E3000 "Desiro seat" and I have done Bletchley-Liverpool in one go on those (about 4.5 hours) with no ill effects.

Rather that than any bus, unless it had 2+1 seating.

 

[Essexman]

I have found that the old adage is true - the best way to sleep on the sleeper is a return journey having travelled on the sleeper the night before.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have found that the old adage is true - the best way to sleep on the sleeper is a return journey having travelled on the sleeper the night before.

That is definitely true. Also applies, in my experience, to any form of night conveyance - buses, trains, ferries, planes, whatever.

For me, it needs to be all of dark, horizontal, not moving and quiet. Miss one of those and no chance.

The CS is a lovely adventure, but if I want to actually be awake when I arrive, then day trains and a hotel are the only way. Wish I could sleep on it!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Mar 2022 ==

They should be working. They were last week. But they appear not to be. We will have to investigate what the cause is.

So they are now working again. Thanks to whoever fixed it!

 

[miami]

I have found that the old adage is true - the best way to sleep on the sleeper is a return journey having travelled on the sleeper the night before.

I had a lovely trip from London to Glasgow a few years ago, I'd flown in from Delhi on a day flight (left the hotel about 3AM UK time), yomped across London, met up for dinner with some people, then got on the train north. Crafty nightcap before we got to Watford then I slept straight through to kicking out time the next morning.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I had a lovely trip from London to Glasgow a few years ago, I'd flown in from Delhi on a day flight (left the hotel about 3AM UK time), yomped across London, met up for dinner with some people, then got on the train north. Crafty nightcap before we got to Watford then I slept straight through to kicking out time the next morning.

Am I the only one who finds that (unless to massive excess, which is more passing out than sleeping) alcohol makes me less likely to sleep?

 

[al78]

Am I the only one who finds that (unless to massive excess, which is more passing out than sleeping) alcohol makes me less likely to sleep?

No, it is very hit and miss with me, and the consensus seems to be that alcohol before bed might help you drop off quicker, but the quality of sleep will be worse.

 

[Tormod]

I'm looking forward to finally getting on the "new" sleeper to FTW tomorrow. Fingers crossed that everything works, including the food and drink!

 

[xotGD]

When I was somewhat younger we'd do seven overnights back to back on a Freedom of Scotland. In the seats, often having to bale in the early hours at some random location. After the first couple of nights of being awake, sleeping became easier.

I always use "overnight" rather than "sleeper" to describe such services. Due to being awake.

 

[jfollows]

I've slept OK on the (Mark 3) sleepers to Scotland, not brilliantly, but OK. The seats are an interesting option to read about here.
I remember my first ever all-line rover, when Mark 1 sleepers were in use. Sleeping wasn't easy to start with. Last night was Leeds-King's Cross including shunting (by 08 shunter I believe) at Doncaster onto the Newcastle portion. No clue about that, slept soundly through the whole journey!

 

[Cheshire Scot]

When I was somewhat younger we'd do seven overnights back to back on a Freedom of Scotland. In the seats, often having to bale in the early hours at some random location. After the first couple of nights of being awake, sleeping became easier.

Likewise, sometimes Carlisle and back (but I managed not to get overcarried on the outward leg) or sometimes the GLQ/EDB to INV or that southbound working, and occasionally the 01.00 to Oban, but I don't think I ever did the 01.05 Perth to Aberdeen. Sadly no similar options today.

I'm looking forward to finally getting on the "new" sleeper to FTW tomorrow. Fingers crossed that everything works, including the food and drink!

Look forward to hearing of your experience.

 

[Keverton1978]

On April 03rd the INV-EUS service is timetabled to arrive in Euston at 09:05. The service is using the ECML and appears to reverse in Wembley Yard. Not being overly familiar with the CS operation, can someone explain this move?

 

[Cheshire Scot]

On April 03rd the INV-EUS service is timetabled to arrive in Euston at 09:05. The service is using the ECML and appears to reverse in Wembley Yard. Not being overly familiar with the CS operation, can someone explain this move?

Wow, 52 minutes in Wembley Yard just when people would like to be getting off, so near and yet so far!

 

[Kite159]

Wow, 52 minutes in Wembley Yard just when people would like to be getting off, so near and yet so far!

I remember doing one of those trips a couple years ago, people were getting up ready to alight when the train was passing Finsbury Park, only to still be an hour+ away from Euston. Don't think they were best pleased as they were hoping for an early arrival!

 

[Mag_seven]

On April 03rd the INV-EUS service is timetabled to arrive in Euston at 09:05. The service is using the ECML and appears to reverse in Wembley Yard. Not being overly familiar with the CS operation, can someone explain this move?

In order to get into Euston after coming off the ECML it has to reverse in Wembley Yard - I'm not quite sure what exactly you want explained?