Caledonian Sleeper

[najaB]

Just think about that. The train splits at Waverley. How are you even getting the Aberdeen portion into Haymarket P0? All in all, even with the barest scrutiny, it’s totally impractical.

What's the first station that the Aberdeen portion passes through on leaving Waverley...?

 

[43096]

What's the first station that the Aberdeen portion passes through on leaving Waverley...?

And how does it leave Waverley given that the reason it’s not running to Aberdeen is a shortage of crew?

You’ve not thought it through.

 

[Davester50]

What I think we've learned is that if you want to take the sleeper, Fort william is your best bet!

Not if you live in the East Coast...

 

[HST274]

Not if you live in the East Coast...

Very true! Also as someone mentioned earlier the Night Riviera is by far a more superior sleeper 'experience' IMO so maybe that is the best way to swing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Very true! Also as someone mentioned earlier the Night Riviera is by far a more superior sleeper 'experience' IMO so maybe that is the best way to swing.

If what you want to do is have the experience of using a sleeper train, I'd certainly go for the Riviera at the moment, more reliable (and a much simpler operation) and loads cheaper, and I think the lounge is back open too (but might be wrong).

However, the Sleepers won't wash their face (to the extent they ever do) on people wanting to have the experience of a sleeper train, so the one you'll use is the one that goes where you want to go.

 

[HST274]

(but might be wrong).

From a video I saw a couple of months ago I think that is correct. P

 

[Davester50]

so the one you'll use is the one that goes where you want to go.

Quite. I think quite a lot of that is forgotten by posters here.
It's a form of public transport to get from A to B. (Or more accurately S to L).

 

[JonathanH]

What's the first station that the Aberdeen portion passes through on leaving Waverley...?

First stop - Inverkeithing - but you seem to be forgetting that it can't even leave Edinburgh without the requisite staff. Even to get to Haymarket platform 0 or the loops at Dalmeny it needs to have a guard and sleeper attendants aboard.

 

[Bill57p9]

Maybe Belmond would like to give the CS franchise a go. They do at least understand how to charge for and actually deliver a luxury hotel on wheels, though their Royal Scotsman efforts could hardly be described as "public transport".

Seriously though I worry that the current farce risks doing terminal damage to the service. I am somewhat surprised that the media haven't swooped in on families kicked out of their berths rooms at 4am night after night.

In terms of rail replacement, I don't know whether Stagecoach still have their sleeper coaches - I believe they no longer run as sleepers but may still be in the fleet configured for daytime operating. They would at least offer horizontal travel. Alternatively there is an XC service which follows the northbound Aberdeen from Edinburgh: ECS to Dundee then normal service to Aberdeen. (I suspect that the TM boards at Edinburgh, so surely some arrangement could be reached at very little cost to the railway overall)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maybe Belmond would like to give the CS franchise a go. They do at least understand how to charge for and actually deliver a luxury hotel on wheels, though their Royal Scotsman efforts could hardly be described as "public transport".

It just needs to go back to being marketed as more of a youth hostel on rails - functional and affordable - like the Riviera is. There wouldn't be anywhere near the outrage about these issues if it was.

 

[crossani]

In terms of rail replacement, I don't know whether Stagecoach still have their sleeper coaches - I believe they no longer run as sleepers but may still be in the fleet configured for daytime operating.

Doubt it - Megabus Gold was cancelled over 4 years ago.

 

[cambsy]

I had an ex Megabus Gold, Sleeper coach, a couple years back, from Bristol to Cardiff, , which then went on to form a Cardiff-Bristol-Heayjrow and Gatwick service, i do not know if they are still doing this service or not,

 

[XAM2175]

It just needs to go back to being marketed as more of a youth hostel on rails - functional and affordable - like the Riviera is. There wouldn't be anywhere near the outrage about these issues if it was.

But that dredges up the old question - how do the fares people would expect to pay for said service compare to the costs of operating it? If the outcome of such a change is to significantly reduce revenue without a corresponding drop in operating costs, they're worse off than they would be if they could just manage to run the bloody hotel/cruise service as advertised.

 

[Techniquest]

Doubt it - Megabus Gold was cancelled over 4 years ago.

Rightly so too, it was awful! I discussed my experience of it to some length at the time, I fell victim to the website's promise of a great sleep, good service and all that. Yeah, nothing of the sort happened.

As for the Cally Insomnie, I discussed my experience of it in October 2020. Short answer from me is that I am in absolutely no rush to try it again, although I did like the quilt and pillow

 

[Nova1]

Arrive at 4:00, kicked off at 4:15, three hour bus journey

Sounds fun. https://twitter.com/DylanReports/status/1422227348334723074?s=20

 

[najaB]

First stop - Inverkeithing - but you seem to be forgetting that it can't even leave Edinburgh without the requisite staff. Even to get to Haymarket platform 0 or the loops at Dalmeny it needs to have a guard and sleeper attendants aboard.

In my previous travels on the sleeper, the same sleeper attendant that checked me in at Euston woke me up north of Inverkeithing. Do they now change staff at Edinburgh?

 

[Meerkat]

Arrive at 4:00, kicked off at 4:15, three hour bus journey

Sounds fun. https://twitter.com/DylanReports/status/1422227348334723074?s=20
View attachment 100701

No offer of a partial refund?
I would probably be committed to getting the sleeper at that point but would not be wanting a 3 hour coach journey - would rather have partial refund that would cover some breakfast and a day train from Edinburgh.

 

[STINT47]

It looks like passengers are not offered any sort of partial refund or compensation when a bus is used unless they arrive late and can claim delay repay.

They offer a full refund if you do not travel but let people know at such a late time that most have little choice but to make the journey.

At this point as you are aware of the bus replacement and have chosen to continue you are deemed to have accept ed and be happy with the new situation and they do not offer any form of compensation accordingly.

Yes people can cancel and get a refund but making alternatives at short notice is not easy so most will have to travel and they can then say you agreed to the bus.

Someone with far more legal knowledge than me should probably try taking them to court over false marketing/unethical treatment of customers.

 

[Highlandspring]

Right now it feels even more like the sleeper is in a death spiral than the previous low of the last weeks of the mk3s/first weeks of the mk5s.

 

[HST274]

To be honest I feel like a very strongly worded email would probably get a 20% refund or a voucher but still nowhere near good enough and it would require said email to get anything

 

[gallafent]

I would probably be committed to getting the sleeper at that point

You say that, but I was, many years ago, left behind by the Caledonian Sleeper (which had been “retimed to depart earlier” apparently, … the first I heard about that, despite having a booking, so they had my contact details, and knew the times for which I had booked) on Watford Junction station: I saw it pulling away as my local service to the station was pulling in — that's about as committed as one can be!

I took the local service back home, booked an EasyJet to Glasgow for the following morning, slept for a few hours, got up, drove to Luton Airport, … and made the meeting I was attending (in Dunblane) approximately on time (maybe half an hour late, can't remember). The total cost, including parking, was lower. I got more sleep.

So being committed to something is relative, I guess. And loyalty can be fickle. And is easy to destroy.

 

[HST274]

You say that, but I was, many years ago, left behind by the Caledonian Sleeper (which had been “retimed to depart earlier” apparently, … the first I heard about that, despite having a booking, so they had my contact details, and knew the times for which I had booked) on Watford Junction station: I saw it pulling away as my local service to the station was pulling in — that's about as committed as one can be!

I took the local service back home, booked an EasyJet to Glasgow for the following morning, slept for a few hours, got up, drove to Luton Airport, … and made the meeting I was attending (in Dunblane) approximately on time (maybe half an hour late, can't remember). The total cost, including parking, was lower. I got more sleep.

So being committed to something is relative, I guess. And loyalty can be fickle. And is easy to destroy.

But... you went to Luton so two sides to every coin (joke)

 

[185143]

You say that, but I was, many years ago, left behind by the Caledonian Sleeper (which had been “retimed to depart earlier” apparently, … the first I heard about that, despite having a booking, so they had my contact details, and knew the times for which I had booked) on Watford Junction station: I saw it pulling away as my local service to the station was pulling in — that's about as committed as one can be!

I took the local service back home, booked an EasyJet to Glasgow for the following morning, slept for a few hours, got up, drove to Luton Airport, … and made the meeting I was attending (in Dunblane) approximately on time (maybe half an hour late, can't remember). The total cost, including parking, was lower. I got more sleep.

So being committed to something is relative, I guess. And loyalty can be fickle. And is easy to destroy.

How much compensation did you get for that if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Bald Rick]

There wouldn't be anywhere near the outrage about these issues if it was.

Indeed, because it wouldn’t be running at all, as it would be unaffordable for the taxpayer!

But... you went to Luton so two sides to every coin (joke)

To be fair, if you are going to Luton airport from most directions you are fairly well insulated from Luton itself. It’s basically North Harpenden airport, much more civilised.

 

[185143]

I've just remembered something with all these cancellations.

In the last fortnight of Mk3s, I was booked to go from Crewe to Fort William. I'd booked with the expectation of Mk5s but was informed 2 weeks before travel that this now wasn't happening and it'd be Mk3s. Here's £20 as a goodwill gesture, or you can choose not to travel and get a full refund. Cash, as well mind, for both the refund and the gesture.

Then I recieved another email about 5 days before travel, a day or so after reading words to this effect in a facebook group, saying that the Fort William portion was now cancelled until the new stock was in service, so I could either choose not to travel and get a full refund or travel to Dundee and alight for a 3 hour bus ride and recieve a 50% refund. They said the bus would arrive for around 09:15, before the train would have done...

Bit different at the moment seemingly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Becoz COVID innit. The standard awful excuse from every company that doesn't care about its customers the world over. A bit like security is the excuse for anything bad in an airport.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Becoz COVID innit. The standard awful excuse from every company that doesn't care about its customers the world over. A bit like security is the excuse for anything bad in an airport.

Precisely this. It's just a lame (and very tiresome excuse) for not giving a toss.

It never has been easy to get anyone to actually answer a telephone of late (assuming you can actually track-down a number), but the number of automated answering systems that trot-out the "we are experiencing an extremely high volume of calls.............. " line is pathetic. I'm sure humans will lose the power of one to one speech in my lifetime?

 

[Bletchleyite]

In my previous travels on the sleeper, the same sleeper attendant that checked me in at Euston woke me up north of Inverkeithing. Do they now change staff at Edinburgh?

You need one guard for the combined train, you need three for the portions...

 

[BRX]

Not to specifically excuse CS, but it is in fact the case that we are just coming out (hopefully) of a global pandemic that's massively disrupted almost every industry in the world and had significant personal consequences for a large number of people in the UK. So...yeah, Covid can often be an easy excuse for things but it's also an entirely real problem for any operation relying on staff being physically present.

In 'normal' times I'd agree that being chucked out at 4am would be totally unacceptable and indicative of terrible management but it's not normal times. There are also people who've had travels disrupted by having to spend a week or two in solitary confinement in a hotel at their own expense. I know people who literally can't travel to their home country at all. Maybe a little perspective is required?

 

[185143]

Not to specifically excuse CS, but it is in fact the case that we are just coming out (hopefully) of a global pandemic that's massively disrupted almost every industry in the world and had significant personal consequences for a large number of people in the UK. So...yeah, Covid can often be an easy excuse for things but it's also an entirely real problem for any operation relying on staff being physically present.

In 'normal' times I'd agree that being chucked out at 4am would be totally unacceptable and indicative of terrible management but it's not normal times. There are also people who've had travels disrupted by having to spend a week or two in solitary confinement in a hotel at their own expense. I know people who literally can't travel to their home country at all. Maybe a little perspective is required?

On the whole, people who have had to quarantine in hotels have been aware of the arrangement before booking to travel and have still done so.

The Covid problem is exacerbated by the poor Industrial Relations, so yes it is still indicative of terrible management to kick you out of a luxury hotel with minimal notice, despite having the alteration planned for a few days *and then not compensate your guests accordingly*. I'd listen to an argument that people in the seats don't need compensating, but people who've paid a three figure sum and then get turfed out onto a bus absolutely do. If a hotel kicked me out after 7 hours I'd rightfully be expecting compensation from Travelodge, never mind a high end establishment.