Caledonian Sleeper

[trebor79]

As a matter of interest, what compensation do hotels offer their guests when the fire alarm goes off in the middle of the night and everyone has to rush outside in their dressing gowns ? Never happened to me, but there was a hotel just down the road from a former workplace where this was an occasional source of entertainment for the night shift.

Happened to me once in Edinburgh, about 2am in the morning. Nothing by way of apology or anything, we were just allowed to shuffle back in once it was confirmed there was no fire. I was particularly intrigued when the couple emerging from the room opposite mine turned out to be a very elderly gent with a great big smile on his face, and a rather scantily clad young lady with a face like thunder. I was quite young and naive and it took me a while to twig what was going on there!

 

[6Z09]

Scottish Socialist Voice.
Page 11 for an article on the Caledonian Sleeper dispute.

 

[Butts]

Scottish Socialist Voice.
Page 11 for an article on the Caledonian Sleeper dispute.

Is it's circulation in double figures ?

 

[Journeyman]

Is it's circulation in double figures ?

I admire your optimism!

 

[6Z09]

I admire your optimism!

If you don't want to read it dont, no need for sarcasm.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2021 ==

Is it's circulation in double figures ?

No idea, good article probably not suit apologists for Serco though.
A view from the front line

 

[Journeyman]

If you don't want to read it dont, no need for sarcasm.

It's hardly a reputable source.

No idea, good article probably not suit apologists for Serco though.
A view from the front line

You don't do nuance, do you?

 

[6Z09]

It's hardly a reputable source.

You don't do nuance, do you?

Tell us why it's not reputable?
A factually correct article by an employee, not really what many on here want to hear.

 

[Journeyman]

Tell us why it's not reputable?
A factually correct article by an employee, not really what many on here want to hear.

Because it's a publication that represents the extreme left-wing fringe of political belief, who are going to present Serco as Evil Capitalist Scumbags, because it suits their aims to do so.

I've seen people sweat blood to keep the service running during hard times. I was one of them.

 

[Butts]

Tell us why it's not reputable?
A factually correct article by an employee, not really what many on here want to hear.

I notice it's only published once a fortnight - looks like a poor mans Mc Morning Star.

How do you know it was factually correct and not embellished ?

 

[6Z09]

Because it's a publication that represents the extreme left-wing fringe of political belief, who are going to present Serco as Evil Capitalist Scumbags, because it suits their aims to do so.

I've seen people sweat blood to keep the service running during hard times. I was one of them.

Well the article is written by a front line worker so you should appreciate that point of view, should not? It's front line staff who are "sweating blood "certainly not a shower of jokers working from home throughout the past 18 months

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2021 ==

I notice it's only published once a fortnight - looks like a poor mans Mc Morning Star.

How do you know it was factually correct and not embellished ?

Because I read the article!

 

[Journeyman]

I notice it's only published once a fortnight - looks like a poor mans Mc Morning Star.

How do you know it was factually correct and not embellished ?

Well, you and I both know how to answer that question. It's not just a paper with a particular political bias, it's published by an actual political party, with views and policies that most people would consider pretty extreme (hence its current complete lack of representation at any level of Scottish government). I agree with some of their policies, but not all of them by a long shot, and I'm able to recognise that it suits their agenda to present Serco as The Enemy.

The truth is, of course, much more complicated than that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2021 ==

Well the article is written by a front line worker so you should appreciate that point of view, should not? It's front line staff who are "sweating blood "certainly not a shower of jokers working from home throughout the past 18 months

It's possible for a front line worker to be wrong, have an axe to grind, or have a political agenda, and therefore misrepresent things.

Because I read the article!

How do you know it's all true? Genuine question.

 

[6Z09]

Well, you and I both know how to answer that question. It's not just a paper with a particular political bias, it's published by an actual political party, with views and policies that most people would consider pretty extreme (hence its current complete lack of representation at any level of Scottish government). I agree with some of their policies, but not all of them by a long shot, and I'm able to recognise that it suits their agenda to present Serco as The Enemy.

The truth is, of course, much more complicated than that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2021 ==


It's possible for a front line worker to be wrong, have an axe to grind, or have a political agenda, and therefore misrepresent things.

How do you know it's all true? Genuine question.

I have spoken to enough staff and Union sources , nothing whatsoever to doubt
about its validity. Whereas some the " "late notice staff shortage " put out by the company this week are downright lies.The train cancellations were posted on here days ago, from RTT!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2021 ==

I notice it's only published once a fortnight - looks like a poor mans Mc Morning Star.

How do you know it was factually correct and not embellished ?

It's a perfectly reputable publication, that has done good work in publicising campaigns such as the Closure of Springburn Works, Mcvities factory closure and both the Scotrail and Caledonian Sleeper disputes.
No mainstream press are in the least interested, although hundreds of jobs and people's livelihoods are under threat.

 

[Journeyman]

I have spoken to enough staff and Union sources , nothing whatsoever to doubt
about its validity. Whereas some the " "late notice staff shortage " put out by the company this week are downright lies.The train cancellations were posted on here days ago, from RTT!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2021 ==


It's a perfectly reputable publication, that has done good work in publicising campaigns such as the Closure of Springburn Works, Mcvities factory closure and both the Scotrail and Caledonian Sleeper disputes.
No mainstream press are in the least interested, although hundreds of jobs and people's livelihoods are under threat.

I think you're making your own biases very obvious.

You never get the whole story from one side.

What connections do you have with CS?

 

[6Z09]

I think you're making your own biases very obvious.

You never get the whole story from one side.

What connections do you have with CS?

Is it only those with connections to CS that are allowed an opinion?
Do connections within the industry and trade Unions not count?

 

[HST274]

Could anyone provide a link to the article if it is online? I couldn't seem to find it

 

[Journeyman]

Is it only those with connections to CS that are allowed an opinion?

No, but those with connections to them, such as myself, know that much of what you've said is wrong. You certainly don't understand how CS manage their day to day operations. I do.

Having said this, I'm not a current employee.

Do connections within the industry and trade Unions not count?

They do, but they're second hand sources subject to bias. You don't seem to understand the possible consequences of this.

Look, I know the staff on the ground do a tough job in difficult circumstances, but there’s way more to this than what you've said, and it's pretty obvious you believe that Serco are pantomime villains acting in bad faith. That is absolute nonsense.

 

[Killingworth]

Could anyone provide a link to the article if it is online? I couldn't seem to find it

Exactly. The article is apparently the cover story but most of us are unable to assess it one way or another. The subject polarises opinions and facts tend to be presented in a way that favours the point of view of the side making the presentation. That's natural.

Whatever it says the practical reality is the Caledonian Sleeper is not delivering a quality service. Just read TripAdvisor reviews as well as this Forum. That's without adding industrial action. As things stand at present the only logical course should be to withdraw it completely. Finish. Solomon's solution.

A great shame, but carrying on as it is tarnisbes the whole railway industry and the perceptions of tourists heading for Scotland.
And it's losing far too much money.

 

[6Z09]

No, but those with connections to them, such as myself, know that much of what you've said is wrong. You certainly don't understand how CS manage their day to day operations. I do.

Having said this, I'm not a current employee.

They do, but they're second hand sources subject to bias. You don't seem to understand the possible consequences of this.

Look, I know the staff on the ground do a tough job in difficult circumstances, but there’s way more to this than what you've said, and it's pretty obvious you believe that Serco are pantomime villains acting in bad faith. That is absolute nonsense.

Understand the possible consequences to what?
Several different companies are involved in the day to day running of the Caledonian Sleeper, so a good spread of people have a very good idea how this service is managed on a day to day basis!
I would wager that those that have been involved over the past couple of months have a very different view of the stewardship by Serco than you have.
What about all the horror stories on this forum, trip advisor and the like?
Continual cancellation of the Aberdeen train, passengers left to fend for themselves in finding forward trains and reservations? The list is never ending.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2021 ==

Could anyone provide a link to the article if it is online? I couldn't seem to find it

Can't get the link to upload.
The article is " An open letter to Serco "
goes on to outline working throughout the lockdowns , now treated to a pay freeze, which is actually a pay cut,as the cost of living doesn't freeze.
Serco senior management received bonuses, and the company are recruiting more management posts with bonuses in their contracts, but not a penny can be found for frontline workers.
It's not written in any way sympathetically towards Serco but the facts are there and are all true.

 

[185143]

I get that there's far, far bigger issues at the moment but are there any positive noises on the club car reopening? I've found a fare in October to Fort William that I'm happy with, but would rather not bother if the club car won't be open.

 

[35B]

Understand the possible consequences to what?
Several different companies are involved in the day to day running of the Caledonian Sleeper, so a good spread of people have a very good idea how this service is managed on a day to day basis!
I would wager that those that have been involved over the past couple of months have a very different view of the stewardship by Serco than you have.
What about all the horror stories on this forum, trip advisor and the like?
Continual cancellation of the Aberdeen train, passengers left to fend for themselves in finding forward trains and reservations? The list is never ending.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jul 2021 ==


Can't get the link to upload.
The article is " An open letter to Serco "
goes on to outline working throughout the lockdowns , now treated to a pay freeze, which is actually a pay cut,as the cost of living doesn't freeze.
Serco senior management received bonuses, and the company are recruiting more management posts with bonuses in their contracts, but not a penny can be found for frontline workers.
It's not written in any way sympathetically towards Serco but the facts are there and are all true.

All of them? I’ve worked somewhere that featured in the press and despite their being no bias in the reporting, and facts being accurately presented, the impression left by the report bore no relationship to reality.

 

[Kite159]

Serco senior management received bonuses, and the company are recruiting more management posts with bonuses in their contracts, but not a penny can be found for frontline workers.

Serco is much more than just the sleeper so if they are paying out senior managers bonuses for other things within the group then what's the issue?

Pay issues can be left on the door of Transport Scotland, who are controling the purse strings of the massively taxpayer funded sleeper service

Sadly the RMT seem to live in a parallel universe where Covid never existed and wants massive pay rises claiming those hard working staff worked hard during the lockdown periods where some nights I suspect the staff outnumbered paying passengers

 

[6Z09]

Serco is much more than just the sleeper so if they are paying out senior managers bonuses for other things within the group then what's the issue?

Pay issues can be left on the door of Transport Scotland, who are controling the purse strings of the massively taxpayer funded sleeper service

Sadly the RMT seem to live in a parallel universe where Covid never existed and wants massive pay rises claiming those hard working staff worked hard during the lockdown periods where some nights I suspect the staff outnumbered paying passengers

It's the Caledonian Sleeper management that got bonuses.

 

[Journeyman]

Sadly the RMT seem to live in a parallel universe where Covid never existed and wants massive pay rises claiming those hard working staff worked hard during the lockdown periods where some nights I suspect the staff outnumbered paying passengers

On some nights at the height of lockdown passenger numbers in total barely made double figures each night. That's not per train, that's all trains combined.

It's the Caledonian Sleeper management that got bonuses.

I still don't think you get how this works. You've demonstrated repeatedly that you have a particular political view on this, and you're still saying things that are factually incorrect, and demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of how the railway actually works.

 

[6Z09]

On some nights at the height of lockdown passenger numbers in total barely made double figures each night. That's not per train, that's all trains combined.

I still don't think you get how this works. You've demonstrated repeatedly that you have a particular political view on this, and you're still saying things that are factually incorrect, and demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of how the railway actually works.

You are fundamentally talking nonsense about the reality of how the Caledonian Sleeper is currently being managed.
What is factually incorrect?
Your claim I fundamentally don't understand how the railway works is quite hilarious.
No need for further comment, regarding the reality of the day to day railway , I will withdraw from the conversation and let you all return to the important things like the merits or otherwise of delay,repay and such transactions.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

Limitations of rail don't explain why (for example) you can't tell customers there's not going to be any food on board until it's too late for them to make alternative plans. Good hospitality sector managers (and staff, for that matter) find ways of solving these problems, rather than just shrugging it off with "stuff's broken, deal with it", which seems to be a particularly prevalent attitude with CS.

I did Inverness - Euston the summer before last, connecting from Wick. It seemed like a reasonable bet that there would be no food and drink so I did a shop before leaving Wick. Half way down, phone received the text message confirmation of no food. Not enough time for a Morrisons leap on arrival so if I hadn't guessed right I'd have been stuck.

 

[Blindtraveler]

And I think, excluding the pandemic when food and beverage offerings have been altered the only time I've ever turned up at a hotel expecting food and found none was a Travelodge where the bar cafe delivery had not turned up at all and they were rubbing around in the bottom of the chest freezers for something they could cook for guests. By the time I got round to ordering the last pizza and last bowl of chips had gone and and they were offering to raid the local supermarket for sandwiches or microwave meals

 

[Journeyman]

You are fundamentally talking nonsense about the reality of how the Caledonian Sleeper is currently being managed.
What is factually incorrect?

You've stated the absence of any managers overnight to deal with disruption. I know this not to be true. There's systems in place for decisions to be made throughout operational hours. You've made claims about CS management's behaviour that are false. You've implied that CS won't spend any money on resolving problems, which is also false. Basically, you've demonstrated you have no familiarity with CS's working practices, structure, policies and procedures. You only believe what you want to believe about this dispute.

The majority of current problems are directly related to the pandemic and ongoing policy decisions by Transport Scotland and the Scottish Government.

Your claim I fundamentally don't understand how the railway works is quite hilarious.

You don't! You've demonstrated that repeatedly. I've worked in it for 25 years, in both front line and management roles, some of which happened to have been with CS.

No need for further comment, regarding the reality of the day to day railway , I will withdraw from the conversation and let you all return to the important things like the merits or otherwise of delay,repay and such transactions.

That might be a good idea, seeing as pretty much everything you've said is wrong...

 

[najaB]

It's the Caledonian Sleeper management that got bonuses.

Thing is, they may very well have been contractually entitled to those bonuses. In many cases bonus payments are tied to specific metrics being hit, and I'd be surprised if the people who set the targets even contemplated a 1 in 100 year pandemic and how it would affect the numbers.

It's entirely possible that some may have been improved by the low passenger numbers. For example, if there was a metric tied to guest satisfaction, then with low numbers and people grateful to be able to travel then the percentage of positive survey results is likely to be through the roof.

 

[Journeyman]

Thing is, they may very well have been contractually entitled to those bonuses. In many cases bonus payments are tied to specific metrics being hit, and I'd be surprised if the people who set the targets even contemplated a 1 in 100 year pandemic and how it would affect the numbers.

It's entirely possible that some may have been improved by the low passenger numbers. For example, if there was a metric tied to guest satisfaction, then with low numbers and people grateful to be able to travel then the percentage of positive survey results is likely to be through the roof.

Exactly. I think a certain poster here has been using "management" as a swear word, and has fundamentally misunderstood (a) the nature of the job and (b) the character and background of those in management positions with CS, many of whom have plenty of front line experience.

 

[HST274]

I get that there's far, far bigger issues at the moment but are there any positive noises on the club car reopening? I've found a fare in October to Fort William that I'm happy with, but would rather not bother if the club car won't be open.

I received this message on twitter from their team:

Hello, the Club Cars on our services remain closed due to COVID-19 restrictions but, with the further easing of restrictions in Scotland in the coming weeks, we hope to resume our full Club Car service in the near future. Please check our website regularly for any updates to our services at this time.