Caledonian Sleeper

[Goldfish62]

The RMT's agenda would seem to go somewhat further than those laudable aims.....

To be fair they don't hide their objective to overthrow capitalism - it's in their rule book.

 

[option]

To be fair, if they are riding trains or visiting stations at night, then they will not have time to do the day job. Perhaps the day job pretty much fills up their working hours......?

Considering the sleepers are an overnight service, then there should also be a night management team, who have all the same powers as anyone on duty during the day.

So CS are supposed to have a manager at every terminus every night just in case things go wrong?

Well yes. Otherwise what are they 'managing'?


Management should exist to deal with any issues that would prevent the lower levels of staff from doing their regular job.

So, lets take the example of the customers being informed at Euston that there was no food available;
the regular staff are busy doing their own jobs of getting people checked in, so there needs to be someone else available to issue apologies to customers, take feedback/complaints, issue compensation vouchers, etc etc.

I fear that you are making some assumptions which may not be the case, particularly that there is any money available to fix these problems. The maintenance problems could be down to incorrect or unsuitable specifications, not necessarily the fault of the car builder. Other suppliers may be providing what is specified in their contract. Do CS really want/need to show Transport Scotland that they are really on the case? If Serco throw in the towel, TS will end up with a much larger bill to deal with the problems.

Water boilers & fridges are water boilers & fridges...
They are an off-the-shelf product, & they will come with warrantees, & servicing will be readily available.
(It is the extreme height of stupidity to spec your own design; a) you're not a specialist at it, b) it will cost more, c) it's unlikely the manufacturer will warrantee it.)

As for food supplies, pub chains, hotels & airlines manage to get food supplied on a consistent & regular basis. The airlines even take advance bookings for dietary requirements!

 

[Robertj21a]

Most rail companies have long ago agreed seven day rosters, Scotrail have never grasped that particular nettle, opting to apply sticking plasters to different grades for different periods of time, hence the on going grief. Abellio are being relieved of the franchise, so why should they bother now? And they are not bothered.
Caledonian Sleeper , have a very unionised workforce, not something Serco appears too keen on.
It appears that there are probably outstanding issues from years ago that have once again never been resolved. Umpteen issues with the new coaches, all well documented on this forum.
A recruitment policy over the last year or so that may well give the impression to some of an anti Trade Union bias.
A new MD in place, perhaps with the brief of beating the RMT?? Jumping on the Covid bandwagon, as many companies have done, as a reason for "tightening of belts".
Caledonian Sleeper operational staff worked throughout all lockdowns.
None were furloughed. Travelling the length of the country six nights a week. None had the luxury of working from home.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jul 2021 ==


Misinformation from the Union, no.
Agenda, yes , to represent their members, protect jobs and conditions of service. And actually to provide a safe travel environment for the passengers!

What is this 'recruitment policy.........anti Trade Union bias'.?

 

[RT4038]

Considering the sleepers are an overnight service, then there should also be a night management team, who have all the same powers as anyone on duty during the day.

I expect that it is simply too expensive. 4 trains a night. That is what you have a train manager for, I guess

Water boilers & fridges are water boilers & fridges...
They are an off-the-shelf product, & they will come with warrantees, & servicing will be readily available.
(It is the extreme height of stupidity to spec your own design; a) you're not a specialist at it, b) it will cost more, c) it's unlikely the manufacturer will warrantee it.)

I think you will find there are water boilers and fridges, and heavy duty water boilers and fridges, and many variants in between. Many. Not all suitable for transport use.

As for food supplies, pub chains, hotels & airlines manage to get food supplied on a consistent & regular basis. The airlines even take advance bookings for dietary requirements!

None of which are similar to the tiny volumes of CS, at five different starting points, at most of which it is simply too expensive to have bespoke arrangements.

 

[6Z09]

What is this 'recruitment policy.........anti Trade Union bias'.?

In years gone bye recruitment from within the rail industry was the norm.
That is most definitely not the case now!
If you are a regular user of the Sleeper it's not hard to gain a overview of all the issues!
Those on here posting anti workforce and anti trade union nonsense can't have ever travelled on the trains or communicated with the front line staff!

 

[Scotrail84]

I expect that it is simply too expensive. 4 trains a night. That is what you have a train manager for, I guess

I think you will find there are water boilers and fridges, and heavy duty water boilers and fridges, and many variants in between. Many. Not all suitable for transport use.


None of which are similar to the tiny volumes of CS, at five different starting points, at most of which it is simply too expensive to have bespoke arrangements.

Otherwise known as guard, thats what TM's are, a guard thats been given a posh name. They are in no position to make decisions on major issues like terminating trains short or deal with major disruption etc, thats for higher management to make those calls as thats what they are paid for surely?

 

[35B]

In years gone bye recruitment from within the rail industry was the norm.
That is most definitely not the case now!
If you are a regular user of the Sleeper it's not hard to gain a overview of all the issues!
Those on here posting anti workforce and anti trade union nonsense can't have ever travelled on the trains or communicated with the front line staff!

I've travelled occasionally with CS, and met both very good and very poor staff. As a regular business traveller, I know what standards I expect from hotels (typically Holiday Inn, Marriott, Hilton), and CS from my experience and that of others reporting on here, do not meet those consistently enough. Unfortunately, that has included staff being frankly not up to the mark. As a paying customer, I don't care whether it's "staff" or "management"; what I want, need and expect is that all involved will work to deliver the standards that their customers are paying for.

 

[The Planner]

In years gone bye recruitment from within the rail industry was the norm.
That is most definitely not the case now!
If you are a regular user of the Sleeper it's not hard to gain a overview of all the issues!
Those on here posting anti workforce and anti trade union nonsense can't have ever travelled on the trains or communicated with the front line staff!

Is recruitment outside the industry a bad thing then? struggling with that one....

 

[Bald Rick]

Is recruitment outside the industry a bad thing then? struggling with that one....

Quite! Everyone in the rail industry was recruited from outside the industry at least once...

 

[6Z09]

Quite! Everyone in the rail industry was recruited from outside the industry at least once...

Yes,and progressed through the ranks from catering trolleys to buffet attendants, to what was seen as an achievement to be on the Sleeper train.
Had good understanding of the peculiarities of working in the rail industry. Felt pride in their jobs.
That has been knocked out of them over recent years by a management that, despite their defenders on here, has shown total disregard for staff and on too many occasions, their "Guests" as well.
Deliberately creating division amongst staff,

 

[RT4038]

Otherwise known as guard, thats what TM's are, a guard thats been given a posh name. They are in no position to make decisions on major issues like terminating trains short or deal with major disruption etc, thats for higher management to make those calls as thats what they are paid for surely?

I thought decisions on major issues were taken in a control office in Inverness? No need to have expensive management on station platforms at night is there?

 

[6Z09]

I thought decisions on major issues were taken in a control office in Inverness? No need to have expensive management on station platforms at night is there?

Very doubtful if half the expensive management are needed at all if they never come out and speak to customers! I understand all operational issues are outsourced to the Locomotive provider, Inverness "control office" is very much about Guest Experience.

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes,and progressed through the ranks from catering trolleys to buffet attendants, to what was seen as an achievement to be on the Sleeper train.

All of them? Really?

 

[Meerkat]

Very doubtful if half the expensive management are needed at all if they never come out and speak to customers!

The managers are there to manage the staff, not the customers - that’s what the staff are for!

 

[RT4038]

Very doubtful if half the expensive management are needed at all if they never come out and speak to customers! I understand all operational issues are outsourced to the Locomotive provider, Inverness "control office" is very much about Guest Experience.

CS is a very small operation. I doubt there is much management staff at all. And there is no money. Horrendously expensive operation in spite of being done on the cheap, seemingly with recalcitrant staff who want to work their way. What future in that?

 

[6Z09]

There a frightening amount of management! All with ridiculously important titles.
But front line staff are scarce as can be seen from the cancellations due to staff not working rest days.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jul 2021 ==

The managers are there to manage the staff, not the customers - that’s what the staff are for!

Are Guest Experience managers not customer facing?
If you have a platform full of bewildered guests should they have a word?
Or should they hide out of the way ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jul 2021 ==

All of them? Really?

Many did, and some are now Train Managers.

 

[Bald Rick]

Many did, and some are now Train Managers.

So some were recruited straight from outside the railway. Like I remember 30 years ago.

 

[6Z09]

So some were recruited straight from outside the railway. Like I remember 30 years ago.

Are any of them still there from 30 years ago?
I think possibly two of the most recent Train Managers have come from outside the industry the others have some industry experience
The recent Hosts are pretty much all from other backgrounds, predominantly airlines.

 

[Falcon1200]

They are in no position to make decisions on major issues like terminating trains short or deal with major disruption etc, thats for higher management to make those calls as thats what they are paid for surely?

No, that is what Control does, in line with company policy and contingency plans, if necessary consulting with on-call management. For CS that is GB Railfreight in Peterborough. The wisdom of separating the CS franchise from Scotrail, and therefore losing the knowledge, experience and resources of Scotrail Control, can be debated......

 

[TimboM]

No, that is what Control does, in line with company policy and contingency plans, if necessary consulting with on-call management. For CS that is GB Railfreight in Peterborough. The wisdom of separating the CS franchise from Scotrail, and therefore losing the knowledge, experience and resources of Scotrail Control, can be debated......

Think you're forgetting EWS / DB were the traction providers in ScotRail days - so would've been their control fulfilling the role GBRf control perform now.

The comparison should be between ScotRail Control and CS Control (Service Delivery Managers).

 

[Meerkat]

Are Guest Experience managers not customer facing?

No, they manage the product and the staff who provide the guest experience.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Well by the looks of it tonight guests on the lowlander got a delay boarding Euston as part of their experience. As per on their social media channels there was no excuse given for this

 

[Nova1]

Gotta love it when your hotel doesn’t even start from where you expect and you’re expected to get a train… to your train https://twitter.com/calsleeper/status/1419664702515392524?s=21

 

[Happilyretired]

Caledonian Sleeper operational staff worked throughout all lockdowns.
None were furloughed. Travelling the length of the country six nights a week. None had the luxury of working from home.

Due to the much reduced service offered during the lockdown I suspect that the operational staff did in fact spend quite a bit of time at home

 

[MrEd]

Due to the much reduced service offered during the lockdown I suspect that the operational staff did in fact spend quite a bit of time at home

I’m almost certain of this. I seem to think that some of the Aberdeen and Fort William hosts were definitely furloughed, with others on a more flexible arrangement covering for the Inverness, Edinburgh and Glasgow hosts where needed. Given the vastly reduced service (especially as only minimal on-board catering was provided) it’s hard to imagine that no staff were furloughed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jul 2021 ==

Are any of them still there from 30 years ago?
I think possibly two of the most recent Train Managers have come from outside the industry the others have some industry experience
The recent Hosts are pretty much all from other backgrounds, predominantly airlines.

I’m fairly sure that a handful of the older sleeper hosts (at various bases) started this role in BR Intercity days (late 80s/early 90s) and have fulfilled it ever since. I would say that a good deal more of the hosts (probably as many as 25 from across the six crew bases) have experience of the sleeper under Scotrail (both NatEx and First Group).

 

[6Z09]

Due to the much reduced service offered during the lockdown I suspect that the operational staff did in fact spend quite a bit of time at home

Absolutely no operational staff were furloughed, suspect all you like these are the facts.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jul 2021 ==

I’m almost certain of this. I seem to think that some of the Aberdeen and Fort William hosts were definitely furloughed, with others on a more flexible arrangement covering for the Inverness, Edinburgh and Glasgow hosts where needed. Given the vastly reduced service (especially as only minimal on-board catering was provided) it’s hard to imagine that no staff were furloughed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jul 2021 ==


I’m fairly sure that a handful of the older sleeper hosts (at various bases) started this role in BR Intercity days (late 80s/early 90s) and have fulfilled it ever since. I would say that a good deal more of the hosts (probably as many as 25 from across the six crew bases) have experience of the sleeper under Scotrail (both NatEx and First Group).

No operational staff were furloughed.

 

[Bald Rick]

Typically, railway staff funded directly by the taxpayer (ie NR and TOCs) were not furloughed, as it made little difference to the bill to the taxpayer.

However, there is a difference between being furloughed, and not being required to come into work. Surely all the CS hosts weren’t required to come into work when the reduced service was in operation?

 

[AberdeenBill]

Gotta love it when your hotel doesn’t even start from where you expect and you’re expected to get a train… to your train https://twitter.com/calsleeper/status/1419664702515392524?s=21

This sort of treatment is just going to stop people using it as it becomes less and less dependable. Nobody wants that additional stress when travelling.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jul 2021 ==

Due to the much reduced service offered during the lockdown I suspect that the operational staff did in fact spend quite a bit of time at home

Even if they didn't, they were more or less running ghost trains so it would hardly have been a stressful shift most nights

 

[paul1609]

This sort of treatment is just going to stop people using it as it becomes less and less dependable. Nobody wants that additional stress when travelling.

Its all part of the rail adventure premium tourist escape room experience, let's face it sensible travellers have already booked in to their hotel in Scotland having taken an evening flight from London City.

 

[6Z09]

This sort of treatment is just going to stop people using it as it becomes less and less dependable. Nobody wants that additional stress when travelling.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jul 2021 ==


Even if they didn't, they were more or less running ghost trains so it would hardly have been a stressful shift most nights

Ghost trains were they? Really?
Some more research required!
During early lockdown, people from all over the world were arriving and departing from UK airports. Many used the Sleeper as National Express had suspended coach services.
The sleeper ran continuously, a fair amount of "essential travellers" in addition to NHS staff, who were afforded free travel, and all the above mentioned international travellers, dogs, cats in baskets and an incredible amount of luggage didn't really make for a stress free shift for on board staff!