Caledonian Sleeper

[island]

It doesn't need to "reasonably believe the claim will not succeed" - chargeback is at the issuer's total discretion

I said “A bank is not required to raise a chargeback if it reasonably believes the claim will not succeed”. That is correct. My sentence did not exclude the possibility of other reasons for not raising a chargeback; you seem to be incorrectly reading my sentence’s “if” as “if and only if”.

But we should probably park this as it’s getting off topic for the thread.

 

[jagardner1984]

I believe eventual ETA into Fort William was around 1400, so presumably all kinds of train crew chaos too.

Is there some data somewhere which shows the proportion of 100% delay repay per operator ? You would naturally assume any long haul operator to be higher on the list, but the sheer number of issues lately (many out with their control) must make for some forthright discussions with the delay attribution people. Or does that work differently under an EMA and it all comes from the taxpayer anyway ?

 

[HST274]

As a matter of interest, what compensation do hotels offer their guests when the fire alarm goes off in the middle of the night and everyone has to rush outside in their dressing gowns ? Never happened to me, but there was a hotel just down the road from a former workplace where this was an occasional source of entertainment for the night shift.

Happened to me twice in consecutive nights at a French chalet and a grand 0% compensation. Just one of those things that are out of control (caused by dust in a washroom). Everyone was literally in their dressing gowns in the freezing cold

 

[Blindtraveler]

I've had a few free breakfasts over the years from the likes of of Premier Inn, jurys and full service holiday inns. Quite often I'd already paid for the breakfast but my my method of payment was simply refunded or on one occasion when it was a free loyalty stay I was given a food and beverage voucher for the next evening as I was staying multiple nights

 

[Dr Hoo]

I believe eventual ETA into Fort William was around 1400, so presumably all kinds of train crew chaos too.

Is there some data somewhere which shows the proportion of 100% delay repay per operator ? You would naturally assume any long haul operator to be higher on the list, but the sheer number of issues lately (many out with their control) must make for some forthright discussions with the delay attribution people. Or does that work differently under an EMA and it all comes from the taxpayer anyway ?

Delay attribution is hardly anything to do with Delay Repay.

Delay Repay is about the unambiguous fact that a passenger's journey (not necessarily all with one operator) ended over XX minutes 'late', regardless of the reason(s) for the lateness.

 

[najaB]

Delay attribution is hardly anything to do with Delay Repay.

It's fair to say though that there will be some link between the former and the latter in that delay attribution payments (where a TOC gets them) will help offset Delay Repay payments to their customers.

 

[Dr Hoo]

It's fair to say though that there will be some link between the former and the latter in that delay attribution payments (where a TOC gets them) will help offset Delay Repay payments to their customers.

There are no 'delay attribution payments' (as frequently pointed out).

The BR-originated delay attribution process is about identifying root cause (and responsible manager) for the purposes of performance improvement.

 

[najaB]

There are no 'delay attribution payments' (as frequently pointed out).

The BR-originated delay attribution process is about identifying root cause (and responsible manager) for the purposes of performance improvement.

Sorry, "Schedule 8 payments from Network Rail when a TOC is affected by delays which have been attributed to causes outside of the TOC's control". Better?

 

[Dr Hoo]

Sorry, "Schedule 8 payments from Network Rail when a TOC is affected by delays which have been attributed to causes outside of the TOC's control". Better?

Yes, quite a bit better.

I realise that the business and pricing model for CS is unique but in the general scheme of things the Schedule 8 payments have never been calibrated to recover Delay Repay disbursements. They are based on loss of future business (aka Marginal Revenue Effect).

At the risk of oversimplifying, TOCs really have to take Delay Repay on the chin in the short term. A shrewd TOC would, of course, have factored in that they would giving loads of DR away when bidding, so the franchising authority (Transport Scotland in this case) has probably already paid for it in large measure.

 

[SuspectUsual]

A shrewd TOC would, of course, have factored in that they would giving loads of DR away when bidding, so the franchising authority (Transport Scotland in this case) has probably already paid for it in large measure.

A shrewd franchising organisation would, of course, ask bidders to use a financial template that clearly itemises DR payments. Although in turn a very shrewd bidder might hide DR provisions elsewhere

 

[fgwrich]

As a matter of interest, what compensation do hotels offer their guests when the fire alarm goes off in the middle of the night and everyone has to rush outside in their dressing gowns ? Never happened to me, but there was a hotel just down the road from a former workplace where this was an occasional source of entertainment for the night shift.

Premier Inn provided me with a full refund after this happened to me at 02:30 on a Cold November Night in 2019. Thankfully, as it was a false alarm we were back inside and out of the mizzle pretty quickly.

 

[JonathanH]

There appear to be planned cancellations of the Aberdeen portion this week, with the relevant services dropped from the open data feeds.

Monday - cancelled both directions
Tuesday - cancelled northbound

Thursday - cancelled southbound
Friday - cancelled both directions
Saturday - cancelled northbound

It runs empty on the days there is a cancellation in one direction. Wednesday shown to run both ways. (Dates relate to arrival and departure times in Aberdeen.)

In other news, 66740 has replaced 66738 on the Fort William portion with 66738 taking up 66740's work on the Alcan Fort William to North Blyth flow. 66791 continues on the Inverness portion although there does appear to have been one day last week with two 73s and 66743 worked at the start of the week.

 

[6Z09]

Aberdeen portion sacrificed again this week! as industrial action continues.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Apologies if I've missed something but it's any efforts being made to resolve these industrial issues? I'm just curious as when speaking to a friend over the weekend they said that to the normal great and washed public it doesn't look particularly fantastic when both Scottish rail operators are locked in long-term industrial arguments that seem to be going absolutely nowhere

 

[6Z09]

Apologies if I've missed something but it's any efforts being made to resolve these industrial issues? I'm just curious as when speaking to a friend over the weekend they said that to the normal great and washed public it doesn't look particularly fantastic when both Scottish rail operators are locked in long-term industrial arguments that seem to be going absolutely nowhere

Neither company seem to be making any effort to resolve these disputes.
Trying their best in both instances to drive public opinion against the workers. Transport Scotland / Scottish government making every attempt to distance themselves as well!
I'm sure someone posted somewhere that Caledonian Sleeper have had strikes every year for the past five or so years! Doesn't really give the impression that they are resolving any problems.

 

[Journeyman]

Neither company seem to be making any effort to resolve these disputes.
Trying their best in both instances to drive public opinion against the workers. Transport Scotland / Scottish government making every attempt to distance themselves as well!
I'm sure someone posted somewhere that Caledonian Sleeper have had strikes every year for the past five or so years! Doesn't really give the impression that they are resolving any problems.

The workers are driving public opinion very effectively on their own.

 

[6Z09]

The workers are driving public opinion very effectively on their own.

The public aren't aware of the background to these disputes and are too happy to believe misinformation "leaked " by Management with their own agenda.

 

[Journeyman]

The public aren't aware of the background to these disputes and are too happy to believe misinformation "leaked " by Management with their own agenda.

Go on, then. Enlighten us.

 

[Meerkat]

The public aren't aware of the background to these disputes and are too happy to believe misinformation "leaked " by Management with their own agenda.

The Union definitely wouldn’t misinform and definitely don’t have their own agenda!!

 

[6Z09]

Go on, then. Enlighten us.

Most rail companies have long ago agreed seven day rosters, Scotrail have never grasped that particular nettle, opting to apply sticking plasters to different grades for different periods of time, hence the on going grief. Abellio are being relieved of the franchise, so why should they bother now? And they are not bothered.
Caledonian Sleeper , have a very unionised workforce, not something Serco appears too keen on.
It appears that there are probably outstanding issues from years ago that have once again never been resolved. Umpteen issues with the new coaches, all well documented on this forum.
A recruitment policy over the last year or so that may well give the impression to some of an anti Trade Union bias.
A new MD in place, perhaps with the brief of beating the RMT?? Jumping on the Covid bandwagon, as many companies have done, as a reason for "tightening of belts".
Caledonian Sleeper operational staff worked throughout all lockdowns.
None were furloughed. Travelling the length of the country six nights a week. None had the luxury of working from home.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jul 2021 ==

The Union definitely wouldn’t misinform and definitely don’t have their own agenda!!

Misinformation from the Union, no.
Agenda, yes , to represent their members, protect jobs and conditions of service. And actually to provide a safe travel environment for the passengers!

 

[Deafdoggie]

With dwindling passenger numbers, anything that saves companies money will be welcomed by them. Strike action is ideal, it saves the company money & they can blame the union. Don't expect any resolution from any company anytime soon, this is the perfect solution for them.

 

[Meerkat]

Caledonian Sleeper , have a very unionised workforce, not something Serco appears too keen on.

Hardly surprising

give the impression to some of an anti Trade Union bias.

Like the unions anti-company bias?

Jumping on the Covid bandwagon, as many companies have done

And unions

Agenda, yes , to represent their members, protect jobs and conditions of service

Plus their larger scale political agenda to break the franchises.

 

[AberdeenBill]

There appear to be planned cancellations of the Aberdeen portion this week, with the relevant services dropped from the open data feeds.

Monday - cancelled both directions
Tuesday - cancelled northbound

Thursday - cancelled southbound
Friday - cancelled both directions
Saturday - cancelled northbound

This is worrying for me. I am due to travel EUS to ABD on Thursday night. Therefore currently, if i am interpreting the information above correctly, I am okay for getting there. Presumably if it doesn't go they just give you a refund and they expect you arrange your own way there via day trains or flights? Does anyone know how it works? I cant seem to find this information on the CS website. I would have thought 'service alterations' would have been the obvious place but no mention. Of course i have received the usual pointless email from CS telling me that my journey is only 1 week away and that they cant wait to welcome me on board. Seems like the opposite these days.

 

[InOban]

Unfortunately ensuring the safety of the themselves and the remaining passengers ensures that some potential traffic is forced to use more dangerous and/or polluting modes to reach their destination.

 

[JonathanH]

This is worrying for me. I am due to travel EUS to ABD on Thursday night. Therefore currently, if i am interpreting the information above correctly, I am okay for getting there. Presumably if it doesn't go they just give you a refund and they expect you arrange your own way there via day trains or flights? Does anyone know how it works?

Sorry - the days related to date of arrival and departure in Scotland. Therefore, it would appear that the Aberdeen portion of Thursday evening's train doesn't reach Aberdeen on Friday morning.

There is no Caledonian Sleeper service shown at Aberdeen on Friday in the open data feed at the moment (but clearly this isn't official information and I guess it be reinstated before then - clearly not my place to scaremonger, just to note what I have observed in open data)
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...0/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=CS

There was a twitter posting this morning suggesting that an Aberdeen passenger had been told they would alight at Perth at 0540 off the Inverness portion.
https://twitter.com/c_chaudhary04/status/1419343740481810433

cchaudhary
@c_chaudhary04
@CalSleeper
hi, I’ve just been told that my sleeper tonight is going to dump me at Perth at 5:40am due to staffing issues. Can you confirm everyone will be compensated for this?
6:08 pm · 25 Jul 2021·Twitter for iPhone

Caledonian Sleeper
@CalSleeper
Replying to
@c_chaudhary04
Hello, please accept our apologies for the disruption to your journey this evening. If you are delayed on arrival into Aberdeen by more than 30 minutes you will be entitled to compensation under the Delay Repay scheme. ^Barry

There is a Scotrail service from Perth to Aberdeen at 0600 which arrives in Aberdeen at 0746, which is less than 15 minutes delay relative to the normal arrival time, but obviously waking up two hours earlier.

It is fairly apparent why the Aberdeen service is sacrificed given the arrival time of 0746 and departure time of 2135 possible with normal trains connecting out of and into the sleeper but that is scant comfort to anyone actually affected.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Caledonian Sleeper clearly once again forgetting that they are offering a hotel on rails and not a somewhat overpriced long-distance train service. If Travelodge asked you to check out at 7 rather than midday you'd expect something in way of an apology surely


More seriously though going back to our earlier discussion and, I thoroughly dislike this auntie staff aunty workforce line that is being transmitted by the operators themselves, transport Scotland, Scottish government and not a few posters on this forum I'm sorry to say. Ok so the anti-union attitude by the operators and vice versa is not great either but shifting the blame on to the workforce as is being done frequently right now is surely only going to cause conflict, hostility and ultimately a loss of passengers as as if customers wrongly get the impression that staff don't want them there and are reluctant to provide them with any form of service then they'll simply take their business elsewhere. That's consumerism for you, if a supermarket chain suddenly decided it didn't care about food being off or tills being shut or staff being rude or whatever people would vote with their wallets and shop at the one down the road that provided a better experience. Saying goes for the railways surely

 

[AberdeenBill]

Sorry - the days related to date of arrival and departure in Scotland. Therefore, it would appear that the Aberdeen portion of Thursday evening's train doesn't reach Aberdeen on Friday morning.

There is no Caledonian Sleeper service shown at Aberdeen on Friday in the open data feed at the moment (but clearly this isn't official information and I guess it be reinstated before then - clearly not my place to scaremonger, just to note what I have observed in open data)
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...0/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=CS

There was a twitter posting this morning suggesting that an Aberdeen passenger had been told they would alight at Perth at 0540 off the Inverness portion.
https://twitter.com/c_chaudhary04/status/1419343740481810433



There is a Scotrail service from Perth to Aberdeen at 0600 which arrives in Aberdeen at 0746, which is less than 15 minutes delay relative to the normal arrival time, but obviously waking up two hours earlier.

It is fairly apparent why the Aberdeen service is sacrificed given the arrival time of 0746 and departure time of 2135 possible with normal trains connecting out of and into the sleeper but that is scant comfort to anyone actually affected.

@JonathanH - Thank you very much for your response and for clarifying the position. I wont be too happy about having to be ready to disembark at Perth at 5:40am, but if this is the case at least i will get to Aberdeen around the expected time. Sounds unreasonable that i will not even get the minimum delay repay for the inconvenience, particularly as i am not getting the service i paid for, but hey, ho it will be the 'journey of a nightime'

 

[6Z09]

@JonathanH - Thank you very much for your response and for clarifying the position. I wont be too happy about having to be ready to disembark at Perth at 5:40am, but if this is the case at least i will get to Aberdeen around the expected time. Sounds unreasonable that i will not even get the minimum delay repay for the inconvenience, particularly as i am not getting the service i paid for, but hey, ho it will be the 'journey of a nightime'

Hopefully not "Nightmare of a journey "

 

[Falcon1200]

Apologies if I've missed something but it's any efforts being made to resolve these industrial issues? I'm just curious as when speaking to a friend over the weekend they said that to the normal great and washed public it doesn't look particularly fantastic when both Scottish rail operators are locked in long-term industrial arguments that seem to be going absolutely nowhere

Other than giving in to the RMT's demands I don't see how Scotrail can resolve their issue. From what we know however the Caledonian Sleeper dispute seems to have a much more understandable basis.

Agenda, yes , to represent their members, protect jobs and conditions of service.

The RMT's agenda would seem to go somewhat further than those laudable aims.....

 

[bus man]

A friend of mine as a medical condition which means he needs extra pillows when in bed.
He had preordered a pillow stating medical reasons
When travelling last September , due a computer clutch on the night - they were having to manually check customers in he was told he could have one if there was one spare fortunately there was.
He is booked on the sleeper in August and as again requested a pillow for medical reasons when booking to be told in a rather off hand manner if there’s one spare then you can have one.


Does anyone else have experience of similar situation.

I am aware that some people will say carry your own but hotels management to cope with this situation before hand