Caledonian Sleeper

[XAM2175]

I would have thought that if the service provided is so different form that advertised it would be worth trying a chargeback through payment cards.

You would seek redress from the service provider first.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Flipping this on it and maybe it's time that Caledonian Sleeper were prosecuted for something? I should imagine there are several things within the trade descriptions area that might apply right now and indeed have applied for sometime. Or perhaps based purely on last night's incident, it should just be plain basic cruelty. I mean who an earth would be happy if they expected to lie in bed until 9 so only be woken up at 5 and told that the remaining part of their journey would be a board a ScotRail 156 on one of its new luxurious ironing board seats, guaranteed to get uncomfortable by the time you reach helensburgh upper

 

[Meerkat]

Flipping this on it and maybe it's time that Caledonian Sleeper were prosecuted for something? I should imagine there are several things within the trade descriptions area that might apply right now and indeed have applied for sometime. Or perhaps based purely on last night's incident, it should just be plain basic cruelty. I mean who an earth would be happy if they expected to lie in bed until 9 so only be woken up at 5 and told that the remaining part of their journey would be a board a ScotRail 156 on one of its new luxurious ironing board seats, guaranteed to get uncomfortable by the time you reach helensburgh upper

I assume giving reasonable refunds having intended to provide the stated product means no case to answer…..

 

[island]

I can imagine it is a bit galling to be woken up around 05:00 when you are expecting to sleep for longer and then know your train is running empty to the original destination while you have to use alternative transport.

Clearly I appreciate the reasons why this has happened but I can understand how someone might be a bit upset.

It would be interesting to know what criminal offence the person will be charged with. Presumably a fine for disturbance.

Breach of the peace I imagine, the great Scottish catch-all.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2021 ==

Flipping this on it and maybe it's time that Caledonian Sleeper were prosecuted for something? I should imagine there are several things within the trade descriptions area that might apply right now and indeed have applied for sometime. Or perhaps based purely on last night's incident, it should just be plain basic cruelty. I mean who an earth would be happy if they expected to lie in bed until 9 so only be woken up at 5 and told that the remaining part of their journey would be a board a ScotRail 156 on one of its new luxurious ironing board seats, guaranteed to get uncomfortable by the time you reach helensburgh upper

No chance whatsoever of a prosecution as no criminal offence has been committed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You would seek redress from the service provider first.

If you were tipped off at Glasgow going to FW you'd likely end up over an hour late and so get a refund anyway, wouldn't you? Unless they put on buses very quickly.

 

[XAM2175]

If you were tipped off at Glasgow going to FW you'd likely end up over an hour late and so get a refund anyway, wouldn't you? Unless they put on buses very quickly.

Quite probably, yes. Regardless, it's poor form to go straight for the chargeback unless that's genuinely your only likely avenue for redress.

 

[island]

Quite probably, yes. Regardless, it's poor form to go straight for the chargeback unless that's genuinely your only likely avenue for redress.

As well as it being poor form, it’s against the card scheme rules and would be liable to result in one’s claim being thrown out.

 

[JonathanH]

If you were tipped off at Glasgow going to FW you'd likely end up over an hour late and so get a refund anyway, wouldn't you? Unless they put on buses very quickly.

I doubt it - the sleeper departs Glasgow Queen Street at 0548 and arrives in Fort William at 0955. Google Maps says 2 hours 40 direct by road. I'd imagine, even with the slower running time of a coach, replacement transport is going to arrive in Fort William before 0955. I wouldn't expect the coach to call all stations - Spean Bridge to Tulloch are likely to be served after Fort William. Some of the other stations are on the way and not too much of a detour, if there were passengers for those locations.

Road transport was provided - see https://twitter.com/CalSleeper/status/1417969012609277954

Tonights service (21st July) to Fort William will terminate at Glasgow Queen Street tomorrow morning due to a staff shortage caused by a short notice Covid related absence. Road transport is being arranged to transfer our guests to their booked Caledonian Sleeper destinations.

 

[STINT47]

If I stayed in a top hotel like the Hilton and had to leave at 5 in the morning due to a problem I would expect and almost certainly get a full refund plus some compensation.

The sleeper markets itself as a luxury hotel on wheels. When things go badly wrong I would expect them to offer more than just delay repay if your delayed long enough.

When I checked into a Hilton in Manchester after starting to unpack I went into the bathroom and it stank of cigarettes. Went to reception and got a new room and on moving to this found a complimentary bottle of wine to say sorry for the inconvenience That is the sort of customer service the sleeper should be offering.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Quite probably, yes. Regardless, it's poor form to go straight for the chargeback unless that's genuinely your only likely avenue for redress.

As well as it being poor form, it’s against the card scheme rules and would be liable to result in one’s claim being thrown out.

As everyone is quick to point out in other threads, delay repay is not a refund. If that were all Caledonian Sleeper were offering then that is very poor form. The bare minimum it has to provide isn't great customer service is it? I'd expect delay repay and a full refund as the minimum.

 

[Bill57p9]

I doubt it - the sleeper departs Glasgow Queen Street at 0548 and arrives in Fort William at 0955. Google Maps says 2 hours 40 direct by road. I'd imagine, even with the slower running time of a coach, replacement transport is going to arrive in Fort William before 0955. I wouldn't expect the coach to call all stations - Spean Bridge to Tulloch are likely to be served after Fort William. Some of the other stations are on the way and not too much of a detour, if there were passengers for those locations.

Road transport was provided - see https://twitter.com/CalSleeper/status/1417969012609277954

"Which bus for Corrour?" Best asked innocently.

Even if the bus made it to Fort William before Delay Repay kicked in it would be truly Ryanair standard of customer service to refuse a refund in these circumstances.

Presumably the customer ejected at Dumbarton was still eligible to claim as he reached his intended destination over an hour late?

 

[Kite159]

If I stayed in a top hotel like the Hilton and had to leave at 5 in the morning due to a problem I would expect and almost certainly get a full refund plus some compensation.

The sleeper markets itself as a luxury hotel on wheels. When things go badly wrong I would expect them to offer more than just delay repay if your delayed long enough.

When I checked into a Hilton in Manchester after starting to unpack I went into the bathroom and it stank of cigarettes. Went to reception and got a new room and on moving to this found a complimentary bottle of wine to say sorry for the inconvenience That is the sort of customer service the sleeper should be offering.

But instead you get levels of customer service which makes even the likes of Ryanair look good.

 

[JonathanH]

"Which bus for Corrour?" Best asked innocently

Yes, there is no doubt that any passengers for Corrour (and Rannoch) are likely to have a more awkward journey than those for other stations. However, the point I was responding to is that Fort William passengers are likely to reach their destination before the booked arrival time of the sleeper, and well within the delay repay thresholds. Other compensation is a different matter - I'd guess anyone in the seats doesn't get anything.

The termination of the service at Glasgow Queen Street appears to have been advised before boarding.

 

[XAM2175]

As everyone is quick to point out in other threads, delay repay is not a refund. If that were all Caledonian Sleeper were offering then that is very poor form. The bare minimum it has to provide isn't great customer service is it? I'd expect delay repay and a full refund as the minimum.

Regardless of what compensation CS actually offer, can we agree on the principle that running to your credit-card provider for a chargeback should not be the first thing you do to resolve a problem with a service?

 

[Deafdoggie]

Regardless of what compensation CS actually offer, can we agree on the principle that running to your credit-card provider for a chargeback should not be the first thing you do to resolve a problem with a service?

Agreed. But if CS say it's just delay repay, then its back to the bank.

 

[Darandio]

As everyone is quick to point out in other threads, delay repay is not a refund. If that were all Caledonian Sleeper were offering then that is very poor form. The bare minimum it has to provide isn't great customer service is it? I'd expect delay repay and a full refund as the minimum.

As i've already said in the thread quite some time ago, it's a service billed as a luxury hotel like experience that when things go sour is quite happy to hide behind some completely inadequate (in this case) rail based delay and compensation provisions.

I can fully imagine passengers being turfed off at 5am to get on a bus and not being offered any recompense purely on the basis of 'you still arrived on time, didn't you?'

No different at all to 18-24 months ago when we were discussing the same arrangements when the stock was being introduced and people were being bussed the length of the country. In that case refunds were also given but providing buses as the only alternative option wasn't acceptable.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Only way the CS could get worse is if they start using 769's.

 

[al78]

The sleeper markets itself as a luxury hotel on wheels.

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[Bletchleyite]

Agreed. But if CS say it's just delay repay, then its back to the bank.

If Delay Repay is 100%, as it has a reasonable chance of being, then that's your money back anyway.

It's a pity in a way it's not mostly priced separately - berth and ticket - as you could then refund the former only.

 

[JonathanH]

If Delay Repay is 100%, as it has a reasonable chance of being, then that's your money back anyway.

As I have already posted, there is no chance of the delay being long enough to trigger 100% delay repay to most of the destinations if the cancellation happens at the normal running time of the sleeper. It is a simple matter of geography. The road route to Fort William from Glasgow is quicker than going by train as it is more direct.

Broadly speaking, a coach will beat or be only slightly slower than the train to most of the Highland sleeper destinations, provided separate coaches are arranged for the nearby and distant destinations - eg direct from Edinburgh to Perth then onto Inverness, direct from Glasgow to Crianlarich and on to Fort William - or passengers are put on the first train to Aberdeen (might get 30 minutes delay there).

In 2016, I was on a rail replacement coach for the sleeper from Edinburgh to Inverness which took 3 hours 40 minutes - this was mid morning after the Lamington issue forced a diversion via the East Coast. The train running time is around 4 hours 20 minutes via Stirling.

 

[InOban]

Depending on numbers, they could have arranged to put the FW passengers on the first scheduled coach which leaves Glasgow at 6.45 and is due in FW at 9.46

 

[MrEd]

Depending on numbers, they could have arranged to put the FW passengers on the first scheduled coach which leaves Glasgow at 6.45 and is due in FW at 9.46

Do you mean the Citylink bus? At this time of year, that is a no-go as it will already be full with its own passengers* and standing is not allowed. CS would almost certainly need to hire an RRB (and better to have an RRB which was waiting to pick them up at Queen St at 6am rather than making them walk to Buchanan bus station with heavy luggage then making them wait in the cold/rain/drizzle/whatever the Glasgow weather is doing for 45 minutes until the Citylink is ready).

*1-metre Social distancing is still required on these coaches, so they are presently running at half (at most) of their normal capacity. They are very often fully booked between Glasgow and Fort William (even the morning ones).

 

[31160]

Only way the CS could get worse is if they start using 769's.

The post of the day

 

[Deafdoggie]

If Delay Repay is 100%, as it has a reasonable chance of being, then that's your money back anyway.

It's a pity in a way it's not mostly priced separately - berth and ticket - as you could then refund the former only.

But, as everyone is always at pains to point out, Delay Repay is not a refund. That's something entirely different

 

[Robertj21a]

"Which bus for Corrour?" Best asked innocently.

Even if the bus made it to Fort William before Delay Repay kicked in it would be truly Ryanair standard of customer service to refuse a refund in these circumstances.

Presumably the customer ejected at Dumbarton was still eligible to claim as he reached his intended destination over an hour late?

The one time that Ryanair had to refund me (the ash cloud fiasco) it turned up within a week. Another well known carrier took 4 months.....

 

[Butts]

The one time that Ryanair had to refund me (the ash cloud fiasco) it turned up within a week. Another well known carrier took 4 months.....

Why didn't you do a chargeback ?

 

[Grumpy Git]

The one time that Ryanair had to refund me (the ash cloud fiasco) it turned up within a week. Another well known carrier took 4 months.....

Ryanair cancelled a flight of mine 15 days before departure so no compensation due. They advised my refund would take "up to seven days" and it arrived on day seven.

Stena ferries process refunds almost immediately and always the same day.

 

[flitwickbeds]

Why didn't you do a chargeback ?

I don't think the charge back scheme existed during the Icelandic volcano event?

 

[adrock1976]

I don't think the charge back scheme existed during the Icelandic volcano event?

Are you referring to the famous Section 75 of the Credit Consumer Act (1974) for purchases over £100?

This seems to have been around for a long time.

 

[Bald Rick]

The one time that Ryanair had to refund me (the ash cloud fiasco) it turned up within a week. Another well known carrier took 4 months.....

They took a month with me, when they cancelled my flight the day after I booked it (4 months out). Perhaps they had cash flow problems...