Caledonian Sleeper

[Bletchleyite]

How do you propose they are told?

Well, there are a few options.

One is to put it in the notes field on the PIS, which is how it'd tend to be done when the shop won't open on a Pendolino, say.
Another is that most people will have booked online and so they have contact details, which means e-mails or phone calls would be possible.

 

[andbrads]

I personally will stock up well on snacks when it comes to my trip later next month. I guess no chance of the club car opening be then?

You would be well advised to do so, leave nothing to chance! Heck, if you brought excess you could do a roaring trade

 

[Grumpy Git]

Another is that most people will have booked online and so they have contact details, which means e-mails or phone calls would be possible.

Exactly, even an old Nokia will receive a text message and I'd be astounded if anyone making a telephone booking wasn't asked for their mobile number.

There really are NO EXCUSES.

 

[HST274]

You would be well advised to do so, leave nothing to chance! Heck, if you brought excess you could do a roaring trade

I could try and turn a profit and then teach serco how to do so

 

[Meerkat]

It is a question of scale though isn't it. Easyjet is much more able to do what you suggest What is the turnover of Easyjet relative to Caledonian Sleeper?

Do you really think someone could go to Sainsburys at Euston and buy random goods for resale or distribution on the train?

This was a minor destination, I doubt there were many Easyjet on the ground.
Why couldn’t they buy a load of sandwiches etc?
in fact this is the 21st century - you could take orders and have takeaways delivered to Watford station!
To do nothing justs shouts that they don’t care.
Annoyed passengers is one thing. Annoyed, hungry customers is a bad bad thing.

 

[andbrads]

How do you propose they are told?

Are you genuinely suggesting it's cool for customers boarding a 13-hour service to be told 'no food' when it's too late for them to buy any?

Two days before departure I received a nauseatingly fluffy marketing email entitled 'Are you as excited as we are to welcome you onboard Caledonian Sleeper'. This email had no purpose, other than what is known as a nurture campaign in marketing speak. If they can email me for this, why can't they email me to say I will have no dinner unless I get it myself?

 

[JonathanH]

Two days before departure I received a nauseatingly fluffy marketing email entitled 'Are you as excited as we are to welcome you onboard Caledonian Sleeper'. This email had no purpose, other than what is known as a nurture campaign in marketing speak. If they can email me for this, why can't they email me to say I will have no dinner unless I get it myself?

Yes, indeed I have had similar emails in the past - there does seem to be a disconnect between this kind of advance communication and issues closer to departure time.

 

[option]

It is a question of scale though isn't it. Easyjet is much more able to do what you suggest What is the turnover of Easyjet relative to Caledonian Sleeper?

Do you really think someone could go to Sainsburys at Euston and buy random goods for resale or distribution on the train?


How do you propose they are told?

I can only assume that up until that point there were staff frantically trying to resolve the problem, and I've seen them go to lengths such as emptying the shelves of supermarkets in Inverness and Fort William when supplies have been disrupted.

So, supplier issues with pre-prepared food.

When do they know there's an issue?
Just before departure? 10 minutes before? 1 hour before? When???

Seriously, how bad is this supplier?



How do they tell customers, the people actually paying their wages?
from the CS website;
"Please provide a contact mobile number in case we need to contact you in a disruption. The phone number is used for contact in the event of service disruption and should be a mobile number or contact number the evening the service operates."
they even have your email address.
& look, they're even on Twitter & Facebook.


Next you'll be saying that no-one at CS is allowed to make phone calls, & the social media person is the only one logged in & works part-time hours.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Yes, indeed I have had similar emails in the past - there does seem to be a disconnect between this kind of advance communication and issues closer to departure time.

The CS marketing budget is clearly much larger than the catering budget. Talk about wrong priorities.

Customers, pah, they're all a total PITA.

Probably a poor example, but it completely smacks of bad management - The last company I worked for had no one purely responsible for answering the telephone, but there were four full-time office staff (in the open-plan office), it was only a small set-up. I have been in that office when the four of them would be arguing as to who's turn it was to answer a call, all the time the 'phone would be ringing of the hook and would sometimes go unanswered. This was just because the office manager didn't have the bottle to bang their heads together.

 

[andbrads]

Customers, pah, they're all a total PITA.

Yes just get rid of the lot of them and run the trains empty, that'd work much better hey

 

[najaB]

Yes, indeed I have had similar emails in the past - there does seem to be a disconnect between this kind of advance communication and issues closer to departure time.

I'd be very surprised if the marketing emails weren't being sent by an outsourced marketing company. They'll be provided a list of names, email addresses and a travel date, that's about it.

 

[nlogax]

One is to put it in the notes field on the PIS, which is how it'd tend to be done when the shop won't open on a Pendolino, say.

Not sure if that would work at both ends. I raised a complaint with CS re. the total lack of any advance information on info screens at Waverley for the southbound service. The resulting advice I received was 'speak with platform staff'.

 

[MrEd]

I personally will stock up well on snacks when it comes to my trip later next month. I guess no chance of the club car opening be then?

Very unlikely, I feel, especially in the light of the continuing staffing issues and the fact that social distancing/masks may still be required on public transport under Scottish regulations (which means that opening the lounge car will still be difficult). Perhaps it isn’t a bad idea to bring your own supplies and/or have dinner before boarding and breakfast after disembarking?

 

[Blindtraveler]

To my way of thinking it all comes back yet again to what type of product the sleeper is actually trying to offer these days. Is it a long distance overnight train NN4 travellers on various budgets and of various different types to get from London to multiple Scottish destinations and vice-versa or is it the hotel on rails designed for the currently non-existent American tourists? If it's the latter then they need a hotel service manager in charge of the hotel operations. This is entirely separate from the rail operations manager who is in charge of making sure the toilets flush and the locomotives are there and the crew are rostered trained given uniforms that fit and and everything else. I'm not saying that Caledonian Sleeper don't have one of these already but if they do he's a bit rubbish at his job. If I go and stay in a Premier Inn and have pre-booked there excellent 2399 meal deal then NZ management at that Premier Inn and it's associated restaurant if not already in house will know that I intend to both dine and have breakfast. If there's no breakfast or no dinner or both then I would expect the hotel to not only contact me sufficiently in advance but to refund my money. Surely Caledonian Sleeper are capable of doing this even if people haven't pre-booked such things as evening meals, informing guests on the platform or when the train is already in motion that you might if you're lucky get coffee and biscuits at some ludacris time of night and then possibly if you're lucky and it turns up and the train isn't cancelled all the world doesn't end a bacon roll in the morning then that's really not I hotel on rails, that's an overnight train with someone who doesn't really know what they're doing in charge of it to me me me

 

[Bald Rick]

If they haven't then I assume you believe they shouldn't have an opinion on it?

I think it is unwise to judge without taking a balanced view of all reports.

There are countless reports on this forum of how poor the service has been, there are countless reports elsewhere which say exactly the same. Much of it was pre-Covid as well, there's no hiding behind that. They can't all be incorrect.

There are also many reports of good service. Including my own (twice - everything worked, all service delivered exactly as advertised and requested). Equally, they can’t all be wrong. And it is fair to say that you will always hear more noise about bad experiences than good.

There’s no doubt CS are having some issues, and this is not to excuse them from those. But it clearly isn’t universally bad.

Merging it back into ScotRail would allow for considerable cost savings,

It really wouldn’t. Maybe low single digit % of the cost base, at the cost of a loss of focus on what is a niche operation (and many here are suggesting there is insufficient focus as it is).

 

[najaB]

It really wouldn’t. Maybe low single digit % of the cost base, at the cost of a loss of focus on what is a niche operation (and many here are suggesting there is insufficient focus as it is).

Depends on how they do it. If it's run as a separate sub-brand and the only consolidation is back-end and marketing then it could work.

 

[Bald Rick]

Depends on how they do it. If it's run as a separate sub-brand and the only consolidation is back-end and marketing then it could work.

Savings would then be in fractions of 1%. You would still have the same marketing spend for the same product (presumably), and there really isn’t much ‘back end’ to the CS operation (ie HR, Finance etc).

 

[trebor79]

I think it is unwise to judge without taking a balanced view of all reports.



There are also many reports of good service. Including my own (twice - everything worked, all service delivered exactly as advertised and requested). Equally, they can’t all be wrong. And it is fair to say that you will always hear more noise about bad experiences than good.

There’s no doubt CS are having some issues, and this is not to excuse them from those. But it clearly isn’t universally bad.

I agree. I travelled on the Lowlander in the first couple of weeks after the new stock was introduced. The water in the shower wasn't hot, but everything else was fine. The lounge car host was friendly if a little harrassed "I feel like all I do is apologise to people" and the eggs roayale I had for breakfast was delicious, nicely presented and perfectly cooked. I didn't sleep very well but I never do on trains or boats.
I'll certainly use it again next time I'm that way on business. Meant I was home in rural Norfolk by mid-morning instead of having a lonely night in Glasgow and spending basically the whole of the next day getting home.

 

[6Z09]

This really is not CS’ finest hour. I think that a combination of the overtime ban and staff self-isolation has hit them hard. I am drawn increasingly to the conclusion that management don’t seem to care much at the moment.

You are drawn to the correct conclusion!
The total disregard for Guests and Staff in recent weeks has been appalling.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You are drawn to the correct conclusion!
The total disregard for Guests and Staff in recent weeks has been appalling.

As a premium service that just won't do. A premium hotel has staff who are helpful and even deferential to customers - that's how a premium hotel works, the customer is king. If the staff are unhappy they won't be like that and customers will be unhappy too.

The real fix for this is to change how it's marketed and priced to be more like the Riviera or Nightjet.

 

[Bill57p9]

So, supplier issues with pre-prepared food.

When do they know there's an issue?
Just before departure? 10 minutes before? 1 hour before? When???

Seriously, how bad is this supplier?

And why are they still your supplier??


To my mind (yes, I have sampled sleepers with BR, ScotRail and CS) the product currently on offer doesn't stand up to the pitch - and just trading on brand won't last.
The catering debacle is not only simply not acceptable but also risks undermining the long term viability of the offer: if it's known to be unreliable, people will assume it isn't available and it risks never being viable again.


Also as taxpayers we're paying for all those refunds when the business makes a hash of things like staffing, and the losses from the absence of catering.

 

[SuspectUsual]

A decent organisation would have someone on site with a company credit card and the authority to go to the nearest 24hr shop and load up.

Exactly. That and a bit of initiative. I used to work for a foodservice company and if the main warehouse had a meltdown or something which meant the satellite depots were missing key stuff for their customers they’d get replacements from the nearest supermarket.

 

[6Z09]

In their defence, and I know this from experience, the management team work bloody hard and have often gone to extraordinary lengths to keep things going. I suspect a lot of this is out of their control at the moment, for one reason or another.

They do indeed work bloody hard!
Keeping out of the way of passengers/guests at the first hint of disruption.

 

[ajrm]

Exactly, even an old Nokia will receive a text message and I'd be astounded if anyone making a telephone booking wasn't asked for their mobile number.

There really are NO EXCUSES.

They certainly have a system which would allow this to happen; I have a couple of texts dating from journeys in 2018-19 when the lounge car was unavailable and I was alerted by the Guest Service Centre an hour or two before departure.

 

[Meerkat]

A cynic might suggest that they don’t want to give people time to cancel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A cynic might suggest that they don’t want to give people time to cancel

I can't imagine many would cancel. They'd just appreciate an hour or so's notice to go to a shop and buy stuff. (If this is the Lowlander very little is open in/near Euston at that time, though there is a 24 hour convenience store by the Travelodge outside it's just a beer-crisps-and-pop type place).

 

[Meerkat]

I can't imagine many would cancel. They'd just appreciate an hour or so's notice to go to a shop and buy stuff. (If this is the Lowlander very little is open in/near Euston at that time, though there is a 24 hour convenience store by the Travelodge outside it's just a beer-crisps-and-pop type place).

I’m imagining a line of Deliveroo bikes rolling into Euston looking for the sleeper!

 

[philthetube]

Savings would then be in fractions of 1%. You would still have the same marketing spend for the same product (presumably), and there really isn’t much ‘back end’ to the CS operation (ie HR, Finance etc).

Think it would be a bit more than that, staff pools could be utilised better, some on board staff could be trained on day and night services reducing spare coverage needed, possibly the same for drivers, though tat depends if contracted, also things like HR and training could be merged.

 

[najaB]

A cynic might suggest that they don’t want to give people time to cancel.

Nobody is likely to cancel their journey just because there's no catering. They are going to be travelling for a reason - be it a holiday, meetings or visiting friends/family - those aren't going to go away just because there's no hot dinner on the train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nobody is likely to cancel their journey just because there's no catering. They are going to be travelling for a reason - be it a holiday, meetings or visiting friends/family - those aren't going to go away just because there's no hot dinner on the train.

But people do like to plan alternatives. If you know in advance, then you can bring or buy sandwiches.

Even a "we're not sure if we are going to be able to provide catering tonight so you might be best advised to bring something" would be worthwhile.