Caledonian Sleeper

[Steve Harris]

Oh I know you already knew, but let's call it out for exactly what it is. I'm normally very supportive of such action when it's justified, but there are select times when these battles must be picked.

I agree totally.

However, the people who really know what is justified are the ones involved, as rarely does the straight truth (ie no spin) get told by either side to the public at large.

 

[Ianigsy]

Agreed, it isn't good. I think TOCs aren't obliged to provide alternatives during strikes because for a normal TOC it wouldn't be possible if all their trains were cancelled. In this case, even if the alternatives aren't great, I agree some more effort wouldn't go amiss, because it's rather a different type of service.

I can only think that CS save money by essentially shutting up shop for a fortnight and refunding everybody rather than rebooking their passengers on the last train the previous night or the first one of the following day.

 

[ld0595]

I can only think that CS save money by essentially shutting up shop for a fortnight and refunding everybody rather than rebooking their passengers on the last train the previous night or the first one of the following day.

Presumably this saves Transport Scotland money too. Similar to the Scotrail Sunday strikes, is there much of an incentive to resolve this or are we likely to see prolonged periods of strike action?

 

[JonathanH]

I can only think that CS save money by essentially shutting up shop for a fortnight and refunding everybody rather than rebooking their passengers on the last train the previous night or the first one of the following day.

The last train the previous night or the first one the following morning may well not fit the travel itinerary of the people travelling. If passengers can book that train cheaper having had a refund, then why would Caledonian Sleeper just transfer the booking? A refund is actually more practical in these cases.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jun 2021 ==

Anyway... On the front at Inverness this evening

66743 I note, taking over from 66755 which has had a rest today. 66738 still on the Fort William train. Single 73 to Aberdeen.

It does seem that 66743 gets more trips on the Sleeper than 66746 (or maybe I'm just imagining it).

 

[DEAN MURPHY]

is it possible that 66743 will be in tomorrow nights Inverness to Edinburgh sleeper (Wednesday)?
Thank you

 

[Bald Rick]

The RMT seem to have a death wish here. I really can't see this ending well for anyone.

Agreed.

The political and economic landscape is changing. The sleeper only exists because of politics - principally because it is something of a ‘flag carrier’ that can be marketed as a premium product to get high spending tourists up to Scotland to spend their cash. Many of those tourists are international, and not coming this year. During the strike, it will be interesting to see how many hotels etc report lost income. It won’t be many.

I can definitely see a prolonged strike causing Transport Scotland to have a long hard think about the future of the sleeper, particularly if its absence has no discernible effect on the Scottish economy.

(Entirely my opinion).

 

[6Z09]

The Comments about the RMT having a death wish, and the new guy trying to make an impression are uniformed nonsense.
The facts are that the staff were balloted and voted with a healthy majority to take action. This was all well underway before the election of the new General Secretary.
Over the past few years, industrial action has never been far away from the Caledonian Sleeper.
Could it perhaps be that many issues exist, and have had a sticking plaster applied, but never resolved?
There will be far deeper issues than the "staff greed" line being trotted out by some.

 

[JonathanH]

is it possible that 66743 will be in tomorrow nights Inverness to Edinburgh sleeper (Wednesday)?
Thank you

Possible but not guaranteed - 66755 and 66746 are still at Craigentinny - I'd check at 4am on RTT and make your plans from there.

Royal Scotsman seems to be scheduled for Friday so I'd imagine that 66755 should be back on the sleeper before then. Of course, if you have £5,900 to spare, you can potentially have 66743 and 66746 all weekend.

 

[Ianno87]

The Comments about the RMT having a death wish, and the new guy trying to make an impression are uniformed nonsense.
The facts are that the staff were balloted and voted with a healthy majority to take action. This was all well underway before the election of the new General Secretary.
Over the past few years, industrial action has never been far away from the Caledonian Sleeper.
Could it perhaps be that many issues exist, and have had a sticking plaster applied, but never resolved?
There will be far deeper issues than the "staff greed" line being trotted out by some.

All well and good.

But if you care about the company you work for being successful (and in turn your own future success), why in the name of Batman's ghost would you strike at the one time the sleeper has a significant competitive advantage for "Covid safe" travel?

Perhaps the right battle, but at the wrong time.

 

[Journeyman]

Agreed.

The political and economic landscape is changing. The sleeper only exists because of politics - principally because it is something of a ‘flag carrier’ that can be marketed as a premium product to get high spending tourists up to Scotland to spend their cash. Many of those tourists are international, and not coming this year. During the strike, it will be interesting to see how many hotels etc report lost income. It won’t be many.

I can definitely see a prolonged strike causing Transport Scotland to have a long hard think about the future of the sleeper, particularly if its absence has no discernible effect on the Scottish economy.

(Entirely my opinion).

Very much my own, too.

The subsidy this service needs is absolutely enormous even without COVID, and driving customers away right now, at a time when the economy is perilously close to total collapse in some sectors, is just the height of insanity.

Governments are going to have to think long and hard about what they spend money on in future, and it won't sit well with anyone if subsidies are thrown at a business seen to be failing, while essential public services collapse.

Market conditions can change quickly. It should be remembered that the investment in new vehicles doesn't guarantee anything - remember Nightstar and North of London Eurostar?

 

[6Z09]

All well and good.

But if you care about the company you work for being successful (and in turn your own future success), why in the name of Batman's ghost would you strike at the one time the sleeper has a significant competitive advantage for "Covid safe" travel?

Perhaps the right battle, but at the wrong time.

The same line could be levelled at the management, if they care about staff that have run services continuously throughout all lockdowns, why not pay a cost of living increase.
Industrial action is happening and going to happen throughout the industry over coming months.
No key workers in any industry need to be "Grateful" just to still have a job!

 

[JonathanH]

The same line could be levelled at the management, if they care about staff that have run services continuously throughout all lockdowns, why not pay a cost of living increase.
Industrial action is happening and going to happen throughout the industry over coming months.
No key workers in any industry need to be "Grateful" just to still have a job!

The problem with 'cost of living' increases is that they remain payable in every year into the future, adding to the cost base of employing that person.

There simply isn't money in the system to pay for them. However, there must be consistency in any such decision for staff on the ground as well as management for the pay freeze to be valid.

 

[6Z09]

The problem with 'cost of living' increases is that they remain payable in every year into the future, adding to the cost base of employing that person.

There simply isn't money in the system to pay for them. However, there must be consistency in any such decision for staff on the ground as well as management for the pay freeze to be valid.

There lies the problem , with private companies that are happy to pay shareholder dividends, but not their staff!
Your final sentence has hit the nail on the head!

 

[XAM2175]

The same line could be levelled at the management, if they care about staff that have run services continuously throughout all lockdowns, why not pay a cost of living increase.
Industrial action is happening and going to happen throughout the industry over coming months.
No key workers in any industry need to be "Grateful" just to still have a job!

All moral and ethical justification aside, the public "optics" of strikes look particularly bad in the present climate. If we here - as a group of rail enthusiasts specifically interested in the sleeper operation - have formed a generally-negative view of the strike on the basis of shaky 'facts', what hope do the general public have of viewing it favourably?

I agree entirely that no key worker should need to feel grateful to have kept their job - and would go as far as to say that in an ideal world nobody at all should need to feel that way - but the situation here and now is that there are a lot of people who worked through the last 15 months who know they've no chance of a pay rise at all, and a lot of people who lost portions and even sometimes the entirety of their incomes, and I don't think it's a huge reach to say that a big chunk of those people are going to feel that going on strike now - effectively holding the travelling public to ransom - is really poor form.

 

[JamesT]

There lies the problem , with private companies that are happy to pay shareholder dividends, but not their staff!
Your final sentence has hit the nail on the head!

Serco are paying a dividend as they actually made a profit in the last year, unlike the previous 7 years. If there's no profits next year, there won't be a dividend, but the staff will still be paid.

 

[JonathanH]

Serco are paying a dividend as they actually made a profit in the last year, unlike the previous 7 years. If there's no profits next year, there won't be a dividend, but the staff will still be paid.

Serco might be paying a dividend to their shareholders. I doubt that Serco Caledonian Sleepers Limited are paying a dividend to Serco. They didn't pay one in either 2019 or 2020.

 

[JamesT]

Serco might be paying a dividend to their shareholders. I doubt that Serco Caledonian Sleepers Limited are paying a dividend to Serco. They didn't pay one in either 2019 or 2020.

Indeed, that was the dividend from the parent company. They haven’t filed accounts for the year ending March 2021 yet, but last year there was a £4.5m loss for the sleeper company, no dividend. 2019 was a £3m loss with no dividend.
Accounts linked from https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC477821/filing-history . Given previous filings, it should appear in the next few months.

 

[BRX]

I've lost track a bit on the status of the franchise now - is it still continuing in original form where serco are paid a subsidy and then beyond that they take on any loss/profit? Or did this get changed as a result of Covid, like most other franchises?

 

[Bald Rick]

The same line could be levelled at the management, if they care about staff that have run services continuously throughout all lockdowns, why not pay a cost of living increase.

Did the sleepers run continuously throughout the lockdowns?

And how can you pay for a pay rise if there’s much less income coming through the farebox?

I’d like a pay rise too, but won’t be getting one for at least a year. In the current circumstances, as an essential worker, I am very grateful to have a job. I’ll be even more grateful if I have one this time next year.

 

[Statto]

I've often felt it was a mistake to make the sleeper a stand alone franchise, i know Scotrail have issues of their own right now, but it would have been better if the sleeper had been kept with them.

 

[JamesT]

I've lost track a bit on the status of the franchise now - is it still continuing in original form where serco are paid a subsidy and then beyond that they take on any loss/profit? Or did this get changed as a result of Covid, like most other franchises?

From the most recent accounts filed, they moved into an Emergency Measures Agreement on 1st March 2020 with Transport Scotland.

 

[ld0595]

Did the sleepers run continuously throughout the lockdowns?

And how can you pay for a pay rise if there’s much less income coming through the farebox?

I’d like a pay rise too, but won’t be getting one for at least a year. In the current circumstances, as an essential worker, I am very grateful to have a job. I’ll be even more grateful if I have one this time next year.

A reduced service IIRC. One service to/from London each night which split at Waverly. One portion to Inverness and another to Glasgow.

 

[_toommm_]

Has RTT got stuck, or is the Inverness portion stranded somewhere between Perth and Gleneagles?

 

[JonathanH]

Has RTT got stuck, or is the Inverness portion stranded somewhere between Perth and Gleneagles?

Diverted via Ladybank tonight. Looks like a signal failure somewhere on the Stirling route

 

[MrEd]

A reduced service IIRC. One service to/from London each night which split at Waverly. One portion to Inverness and another to Glasgow.

That’s right- that’s how it was in the first lockdown. In the second lockdown, the service was curtailed further- the 21.15 (1S25) off Euston had an Inverness portion as normal (arriving at the normal time the following morning), while a second portion was detached at Waverley at 4am and sat in the station until 7.30am, when it was taken ECS to Polmadie. For the southbound service, the reverse happened: a portion ran from Polmadie to Waverley arriving around 11pm, when Edinburgh passengers could board; this was attached to the inbound Inverness portion at 1am and the combined train reached London at 7.45am. Effectively it was a Lowlander-Highlander combined, with (probably) only two hosts and a team leader per portion; one train manager was needed for the Edinburgh-Inverness leg, and another for the London-Edinburgh as a combined train.

Loadings were minimal in the first lockdown, with the number of passengers in the combined portions rarely exceeding 10. Patronage was better in the second lockdown, suggesting that the service was of use to business and other essential travellers (at a time when most flights were suspended).

 

[6Z09]

Irrespective of the differing political views of the forthcoming industrial action, the ballot result should tell all something about the feelings of staff towards Caledonian Sleeper management! Something is not right in a Company that is forever on the brink of Industrial action.

 

[John Bishop]

Irrespective of the differing political views of the forthcoming industrial action, the ballot result should tell all something about the feelings of staff towards Caledonian Sleeper management! Something is not right in a Company that is forever on the brink of Industrial action.

Yes, but as has been stated above, it’s about picking your battles and timing it right. Now is not the right time to be going on strike. It’s just a shame that the RMT can’t see that.

 

[6Z09]

Yes, but as has been stated above, it’s about picking your battles and timing it right. Now is not the right time to be going on strike. It’s just a shame that the RMT can’t see that.

It's the staff who choose to take action.
The RMT is forcing nobody! The result of the ballot was overwhelmingly in favour of industrial action. Public opinion will admittedly not favour the staff, but the public won't be in possession of the full facts will they?

 

[JonathanH]

is it possible that 66743 will be in tomorrow nights Inverness to Edinburgh sleeper (Wednesday)?
Thank you

RTT says 66743 again to Inverness today. 66755 and 66746 appear to have been sent away to Tyne Coal Terminal on 0N14 0551 Millerhill S.S. to Tyne Coal Terminal Gbrf.

66738 still on the Fort William sleeper.

 

[Carntyne]

It's the staff who choose to take action.
The RMT is forcing nobody! The result of the ballot was overwhelmingly in favour of industrial action. Public opinion will admittedly not favour the staff, but the public won't be in possession of the full facts will they?

The staff (who are the RMT remember) don't seem to understand there is no money or acknowledge the significant amount of funding the EMA already has given just to keep the job going