Caledonian Sleeper

[ungreat]

I don’t understand the interest in football, yet for some reason it’s a multi-billion pound global phenomenon.

Neither do I!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2021 ==

I think the point is that not everyone is interested in the exactly same thing even in a niche hobby like railways. There’s no need to ‘understand’ other people’s interests, just accept that they are inerested in something you’re not.

That I get..but it's one of the biggest threads on here and just wondered why it attracts so much attention!
PS..I have been on it!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2021 ==

Because it is a throw back to a different age when loco hauled services and portion working were a thing and Parliament used to sit late in the evening and MPs used it regulary to get back to their Scottish constituencies. The stories of Charles Kennedy drinking in the bar virtually all the way to Glasgow before retiring for a few hours while the train chugged on to Fort William are legendary. Despite virtually no-one using it and requiring a massive subsidy to maintain it , it still carries a lot of political weight.

Having been a driver for nearly 35 years I remember and have driven many loco hauled services

 

[geoffk]

Don't know if this has been covered above as I've not read all 309 pages - none of the sleepers now appear to carry local passengers in Scotland. When I travelled a few years ago, the Inverness portion picked up commuters from Kingussie onwards and the Fort William picked up from Edinburgh I think. Only the Aberdeen portion didn't carry local passengers. Why the change and what happened to the (probably not many) local passengers who used these trains? A similar situation applies to the Night Riviera but there is a now an alternative day train timed fairly close.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don't know if this has been covered above as I've not read all 309 pages - none of the sleepers now appear to carry local passengers in Scotland. When I travelled a few years ago, the Inverness portion picked up commuters from Kingussie onwards and the Fort William picked up from Edinburgh I think. Only the Aberdeen portion didn't carry local passengers. Why the change and what happened to the (probably not many) local passengers who used these trains? A similar situation applies to the Night Riviera but there is a now an alternative day train timed fairly close.

The reasons are different - with the Riviera it's because of the slamdoors and droplights, but with the Cally it's about COVID. Or allegedly so - it's well known they don't like allowing day passengers and it'll be interesting to see if they do return or not, and if ScotRail provide any replacement services if not.

 

[BRX]

What do you mean? If they're on strike then the trains are not going to run.

Sometimes a strike means nothing can run, sometimes it means a reduced service.

 

[Darandio]

Sometimes a strike means nothing can run, sometimes it means a reduced service.

Given the small workforce involved i'd wager it means nothing can run. All CS are saying is that they will contact those who are booked to travel on those dates.

 

[geoffk]

The reasons are different - with the Riviera it's because of the slamdoors and droplights, but with the Cally it's about COVID. Or allegedly so - it's well known they don't like allowing day passengers and it'll be interesting to see if they do return or not, and if ScotRail provide any replacement services if not.

OK thanks. But the Riviera has always had slam doors and droplights. Did the franchises require the carriage of day passengers? If so, they should be carried regardless of whether the operator "likes" them. In the post-franchise world, can they just do what they want?

 

[Bletchleyite]

OK thanks. But the Riviera has always had slam doors and droplights.

It has, but views on these have become much less tolerant in recent years with a couple of serious accidents.

Did the franchises require the carriage of day passengers? If so, they should be carried regardless of whether the operator "likes" them.

I suspect the GWR franchise specified a train at a certain time which they are now providing with a DMU or mini HST (I forget which) just in front/behind. I don't know about CS.

In the post-franchise world, can they just do what they want?

Franchises are dead, so if the DfT is OK with it it goes, I guess.

 

[berneyarms]

OK thanks. But the Riviera has always had slam doors and droplights. Did the franchises require the carriage of day passengers? If so, they should be carried regardless of whether the operator "likes" them. In the post-franchise world, can they just do what they want?

I am pretty sure that the GWR situation in Cornwall changed due to an ORR decision regarding the continuing use of the slam door train for local journeys.

The morning service from Plymouth is now preceded by a Class 800 to Penzance.

 

[Gathursty]

A few years ago I took the Sleeper from Tulloch to Corrour and the last Scotrail coming back to scratch both stations with the ticket bought at the office in Fort William. I wonder (given all this discussion about daytime passengers being treated differently) if I took the same journey today, would there be an issue given I'm not going all the way to London? Would FTW ticket clerk have sold me the ticket? Would Sleeper guard have let me on at Tulloch/off at Corrour?

 

[geoffk]

I am pretty sure that the GWR situation in Cornwall changed due to an ORR decision regarding the continuing use of the slam door train for local journeys.

Is TfW still using a slam-door set on Manchester - Holyhead or did that end with Covid?

 

[D6130]

Is TfW still using a slam-door set on Manchester - Holyhead or did that end with Covid?

No....I'm afraid it ended with Covid.

 

[_toommm_]

Is TfW still using a slam-door set on Manchester - Holyhead or did that end with Covid?

That ended, and it reverted to a DMU. Loco hauled is now only planned to be on Holyhead to Cardiff runs.

 

[CW2]

A few years ago I took the Sleeper from Tulloch to Corrour and the last Scotrail coming back to scratch both stations with the ticket bought at the office in Fort William. I wonder (given all this discussion about daytime passengers being treated differently) if I took the same journey today, would there be an issue given I'm not going all the way to London? Would FTW ticket clerk have sold me the ticket? Would Sleeper guard have let me on at Tulloch/off at Corrour?

In the current COVID operations, sleeper trains are only calling at those stations where passengers are booked, or where operational circumstances dictate. So it is quite usual currently for the sleepers to run non-stop through (for example) Corrour. Again, in the current circumstances, there are no tickets for sale for local journeys.

 

[Gathursty]

In the current COVID operations, sleeper trains are only calling at those stations where passengers are booked, or where operational circumstances dictate. So it is quite usual currently for the sleepers to run non-stop through (for example) Corrour. Again, in the current circumstances, there are no tickets for sale for local journeys.

Many thanks.

 

[Furrball]

Finally travelled on the new stock...

- Terrible ride - even though I was in the middle of the carriage
- Much noisier than the MK3. On the return journey the HVAC in the toilet sounded like a plane taking off!)
- Limited luggage storage
- Zero places to put toilet bags etc (the folding shelf next to the sink on the MK3 was perfect)
- Toilet stopped flushing around 6am
- Toilet 'leaked' when flushed (looked like a jet sprayed upwards slightly)
- Wetroom floor does not drain fully (needs to be slightly concave/slope to pool water towards the plug)
- Sound of sloshing liquid (do the tanks not have baffles?)
- Electronic door locks not working (on outbound and return)
- Toilet door would not stay shut (outbound)
- Toilet door out of alignment and light seeping through (return)
- Lifting the lid on the toilet caught the edge of the door - but only in the outbound journey - on the return there was about a 15mm gap - I was in the same berth (Room 6)
- Lukewarm water at best
- Room made up as a single outbound but double on return

Spoke with one of the crew - he said the staff hate them - style over substance/practicality

 

[nlogax]

Finally travelled on the new stock...

One thing I've taken from my various experiences on the new stock is that priority Club Car access isn't really worth the mental torture of spending all night listening to sloshing water from the en-suite.

 

[D6130]

Finally travelled on the new stock...

Thanks for the detailed report and my deepest sympathy for your terrible journeys....you've made my mind up for me - I definitely won't be travelling on it. I am, however, tempted to try the Night Riviera and hope to do so in September.

 

[Butts]

Finally travelled on the new stock...

- Terrible ride - even though I was in the middle of the carriage
- Much noisier than the MK3. On the return journey the HVAC in the toilet sounded like a plane taking off!)
- Limited luggage storage
- Zero places to put toilet bags etc (the folding shelf next to the sink on the MK3 was perfect)
- Toilet stopped flushing around 6am
- Toilet 'leaked' when flushed (looked like a jet sprayed upwards slightly)
- Wetroom floor does not drain fully (needs to be slightly concave/slope to pool water towards the plug)
- Sound of sloshing liquid (do the tanks not have baffles?)
- Electronic door locks not working (on outbound and return)
- Toilet door would not stay shut (outbound)
- Toilet door out of alignment and light seeping through (return)
- Lifting the lid on the toilet caught the edge of the door - but only in the outbound journey - on the return there was about a 15mm gap - I was in the same berth (Room 6)
- Lukewarm water at best
- Room made up as a single outbound but double on return

Spoke with one of the crew - he said the staff hate them - style over substance/practicality

Next time take an Embraer E190 SR

 

[xotGD]

Thanks for the detailed report and my deepest sympathy for your terrible journeys....you've made my mind up for me - I definitely won't be travelling on it. I am, however, tempted to try the Night Riviera and hope to do so in September.

Just travel in the seats with the expectation of getting no sleep.

 

[Essexman]

Finally travelled on the new stock...

- Terrible ride - even though I was in the middle of the carriage
- Much noisier than the MK3. On the return journey the HVAC in the toilet sounded like a plane taking off!)
- Limited luggage storage
- Zero places to put toilet bags etc (the folding shelf next to the sink on the MK3 was perfect)
- Toilet stopped flushing around 6am
- Toilet 'leaked' when flushed (looked like a jet sprayed upwards slightly)
- Wetroom floor does not drain fully (needs to be slightly concave/slope to pool water towards the plug)
- Sound of sloshing liquid (do the tanks not have baffles?)
- Electronic door locks not working (on outbound and return)
- Toilet door would not stay shut (outbound)
- Toilet door out of alignment and light seeping through (return)
- Lifting the lid on the toilet caught the edge of the door - but only in the outbound journey - on the return there was about a 15mm gap - I was in the same berth (Room 6)
- Lukewarm water at best
- Room made up as a single outbound but double on return

Spoke with one of the crew - he said the staff hate them - style over substance/practicality

I travelled from Inverness to Euston last night - my first journey on the Caledonian Sleeper for 18 months.
Fortunately I didn't encounter too many problems.
Ride was Ok - Berth 5.
No water sloshing - but this has been an annoyance on previous journeys.
My toilet door kept opening too but I got it to stay shut in the end.
Upper bunk was in place. I went into the Guest Centre in Inverness (for a shower but they were shut) and registered no solo bunks as a complaint.
There was an annoying rattle from the berth door which I solved as I used to on the old trains, by jamming a sock into the door before closing it.
Noise from doors bleeping at stations is annoying. Is this really necessary?
Good bacon roll for breakfast.

 

[ScotsRail]

Precisely, millions of people play and watch football - the numbers who use the sleepers are miniscule compared to virtually any other rail service. The interest in rail routes/services tends to be inverse proportion to those that use them. To take your analagy to far its like having a football forum where the interest in Anytown United in the 4th Division northern section of the southern Caithness league gets 10 times more discussion than any Premier league team.

Well Brechin have been the talk of the Steamie for the last few weeks in Scotland.

 

[62484GlenLyon]

Finally travelled on the new stock...

- Terrible ride - even though I was in the middle of the carriage
- Much noisier than the MK3. On the return journey the HVAC in the toilet sounded like a plane taking off!)
- Limited luggage storage
- Zero places to put toilet bags etc (the folding shelf next to the sink on the MK3 was perfect)
- Toilet stopped flushing around 6am
- Toilet 'leaked' when flushed (looked like a jet sprayed upwards slightly)
- Wetroom floor does not drain fully (needs to be slightly concave/slope to pool water towards the plug)
- Sound of sloshing liquid (do the tanks not have baffles?)
- Electronic door locks not working (on outbound and return)
- Toilet door would not stay shut (outbound)
- Toilet door out of alignment and light seeping through (return)
- Lifting the lid on the toilet caught the edge of the door - but only in the outbound journey - on the return there was about a 15mm gap - I was in the same berth (Room 6)
- Lukewarm water at best
- Room made up as a single outbound but double on return

Spoke with one of the crew - he said the staff hate them - style over substance/practicality

I heartily agree, especially with the comment about limited storage space and the toilet bags, etc. The sink looks very fancy but as it has no cover any loose clothing, for instance, that the top bunk occupant has put at the bottom of the bed can fall into the sink and get wet - my t-shirt, as an example.

My other major gripe about the CS stock is the awful ladder to access the upper berth. The old BR style ladder had treads about 2 inches wide which was very kind on bare feet when climbing up or down whereas the CS ladder has very narrow rungs which are very painful to stand on. I did, though, find the en-suite toilet much better than having to get dressed in the middle of the night for the walk down the corridor.

D6130 mentioned the Night Riviera - the berths in these are somewhat better, but still nowhere as good as the original mark 3s. There is a small shelf for the top bunk occupant to put things on - glasses, phone for example, and the sink has a hinged shelf which acts as a convenient place for the lower bunk occupant to put glasses etc. However, when the shelf is raised it has a sharp edge to it which is very easy to catch ones head on when using the sink. Beware!

 

[6Z09]

All these trip reports make interesting reading.
None, however, sound much like a hotel on wheels!

 

[Furrball]

I travelled from Inverness to Euston last night - my first journey on the Caledonian Sleeper for 18 months.
Fortunately I didn't encounter too many problems.
Ride was Ok - Berth 5.
No water sloshing - but this has been an annoyance on previous journeys.
My toilet door kept opening too but I got it to stay shut in the end.
Upper bunk was in place. I went into the Guest Centre in Inverness (for a shower but they were shut) and registered no solo bunks as a complaint.
There was an annoying rattle from the berth door which I solved as I used to on the old trains, by jamming a sock into the door before closing it.
Noise from doors bleeping at stations is annoying. Is this really necessary?
Good bacon roll for breakfast.

I forgot that the door handle rattled!

Hung the full welcome pack bag off it to fix that annoyance!

 

[Highlandspring]

D6130 mentioned the Night Riviera - the berths in these are somewhat better, but still nowhere as good as the original mark 3s. There is a small shelf for the top bunk occupant to put things on - glasses, phone for example, and the sink has a hinged shelf which acts as a convenient place for the lower bunk occupant to put glasses etc. However, when the shelf is raised it has a sharp edge to it which is very easy to catch ones head on when using the sink. Beware!

Indeed, I did exactly that in 2019 and nearly knocked myself out. It cut my head quite badly. Other than that I thought the refurbished berth was excellent.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All these trip reports make interesting reading.
None, however, sound much like a hotel on wheels!

YHA on wheels in all but price sounds about right.

 

[BRX]

I saw someone off to fort William a couple of weeks ago, who then reported they'd had the best night's sleep they ever managed on the sleeper. That's including several years travel on the old stock...so experiences differ.

 

[StephenHunter]

YHA on wheels in all but price sounds about right.

Nah, that's a European couchette. Caledonian Sleeper is more a Travelodge minus the TV.

 

[island]

That ended, and it reverted to a DMU. Loco hauled is now only planned to be on Holyhead to Cardiff runs.

And this is expected to be Mk4 coaching stock when it resumes so only slam doors left around will be the Night Riviera. As I understand it the droplights of which have now been wired into the central door locking so can’t be lowered until the train is at a stand.

 

[gingerheid]

I saw someone off to fort William a couple of weeks ago, who then reported they'd had the best night's sleep they ever managed on the sleeper. That's including several years travel on the old stock...so experiences differ.

My experience too. The new stock isn't without flaw for sure, but I feel people would be very delighted with it if they hadn't come up with the ridiculous hotel on wheels marketing line, and the customer surveys that invite you to compare it to hotel chains. It's not a hotel on wheels; it's 'merely' a very excellent sleeper train.

It's a shame that they're trapped into offering a certain quite low capacity by circumstances such as the uniqueness of the operation and rolling stock, capacity in London, and the possible short lifespan of the lowland services after HS2. It's likely that the only way they could drop prices would be by adding extra capacity and trying to fill more trains each night, and while I believe it's likely they could do it I can certainly see why nobody would want to fund such a gamble!

I hope that, if HS2 does supersede the lowland services, they keep the stock in Scotland and try to develop new destinations like Oban, Kyle, and the far north.