Caledonian Sleeper

[43 302]

It is rare and I don't think that 47 has been up to Inverness since because it can't run in multiple with the 73 like the 66's can which is a shame as it looks great in the CS livery and would liked to have seen it more. From what I recall it was meant to be used for more mk3 work hence it's in the CS livery but then it had mechanical problems and didn't do as much as intended.

Ah. That is a shame because it looks great. I did see it paired with 73971 though but you said it can't work in multiple with them, does that mean the 73 wasn't powering and was just being dragged by the 47?

 

[JohnMcL7]

Ah. That is a shame because it looks great. I did see it paired with 73971 though but you said it can't work in multiple with them, does that mean the 73 wasn't powering and was just being dragged by the 47?

This is a quote from someone earlier in the thread when I asked that question:

On the rare occasion(s) the 47 was used, it was to provide additional traction on the Inverness route where there is a Load 8 and a few steep climbs and hence pushing it to rely on a single 73/9. Hence, 2x 73/9s are normally used on this route, however when there's been a shortage of 73s, a 66, 67 or 47 has piloted.

Both locos are under power, working in tandem (not multi) - the 73/9 hadn't failed. The 73/9 provides traction and ETS, the 47 just provides traction. In this arrangement, both locos need a driver.

As noted above, when a 66 (or 67) is used to pilot a 73/9 on a similar basis it can multi via the AAR system with the 73/9, so the two locos can work in 'proper' multi and only require one driver.

 

[MrEd]

Just watch a video from a few months ago of the Inverness sleeper being hauled by a 73 with a 47. I would assume this is a rare substitution as I thought it was just 73s and maybe 66s but then it carries their new livery. Anyone know anything about this?

There were a couple of days last November (November 7th and 8th I believe) when GBRf’s 47727, which carries CS livery, deputised for an unavailable 73 or 66, and so was paired up with the existing 73. The idea behind this was that a single 73 cannot reliably maintain the schedule with load 8 on the steeply-graded Highland Main Line, particularly in leaf-fall season/winter when railhead conditions are at their poorest, but the one 73 is still needed to provide ETS to the Mk5s. Any air-braked loco can be coupled in front of the 73 to provide extra power in practice, as the 73 acts as the translator with the Dellners on the Mk5s, but a 66 is preferred as it can be used in multiple with the 73 using the AAR system, avoiding the need for a separate driver in the 73. Also, I doubt that many of the Inverness-based GBRf drivers who work the sleeper between there and Stirling sign 47s, so finding suitably trained crews for the northern part of the route may have been a problem.

 

[ScottDarg]

Just watch a video from a few months ago of the Inverness sleeper being hauled by a 73 with a 47. I would assume this is a rare substitution as I thought it was just 73s and maybe 66s but then it carries their new livery. Anyone know anything about this?

47727 was painted into CS Midnight Teal and named Edinburgh Castle (Gaelic translation on the other side). Believe it was to be used as part of the Mk.2/3 run down but only saw limited use on the Sleeper.

Like GBRfs other 47s it has since been fitted with Dellners and other kit for EMU moves - namely Class 720s for Greater Anglia: https://flic.kr/p/2iAADek

 

[TimboM]

In terms of Mk5 workings, 47727 has only assisted one out and back run on the Inverness portion - 1S25 on the morning of Fri 8 Nov last year and then back that evening. As noted above, it's not the ideal solution as needs two drivers and I also recall it not providing as much additional grunt up the hills as might have been expected.

 

[alangla]

I also recall it not providing as much additional grunt up the hills as might have been expected.

Seems to be a recurring problem with that one (Ladybank farce)

 

[BRX]

47727 @ Inverness

1M16 on 08/11/19. Class 47 (Edinburgh Castle) and 73971 prepare to head south with the Caledonian Sleeper. When working 1S25 up this Morning the 47+73 combo struggled to keep time with 30mins lost climbing Drumochter, whether that's was due to frost/ice/snow or leaf's. Same again on the south...

flic.kr

47727 Inverness

47727 with 73971 at Cradlehall. 1S25 2116 London Euston - Inverness on 08/11/19

flic.kr

 

[JohnMcL7]

I've uploaded a few more shots of the 47 in Inverness:

https://photos.smugmug.com/Trains/i-tVtB9bx/0/b6a6723d/X2/DSC03005-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Trains/i-LFKcns7/0/e7cb0572/X2/DSC03009-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Trains/i-Qjh47fn/0/6c925c50/X2/DSC00015-X2.jpg

Was there any clear reason why the 47 wasn't adding as much traction as expected? It seemed very quiet when it was leaving Inverness compared to other 47's although there's a lot of noise from the 73 and I don't have much recent experience with 47's as they are rare visitors here:

 

[BRX]

Looks like southbound highlander ran into some trouble around Lockerbie... Now nearly 3hrs late

Realtime Trains - 1M16 2045 Inverness and Glasgow Central to London Euston

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Sleeper69]

Got stuck behind a freight that failed https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H49811/2020-04-23/detailed also affected 1S25.

 

[MotCO]

Got stuck behind a freight that failed https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H49811/2020-04-23/detailed also affected 1S25.

It may have got stuck behind a train which broke down at Lockerbie, but the Sleeper itself was canned at Watford due to a problem with the train (code M8). https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C36783/2020-04-22/detailed

 

[Tom]

Cancellation codes on RTT do not necessarily mean that train directly. The M8 cancellation code can relate to another train, as that is a root cause.

 

[Tormod]

Northbound was also about 3 hour late

 

[InOban]

It would have had to wait at Preston (I think) because they swap traincrew, don't they?

 

[Sleeper69]

At the moment the drivers are changing at Crewe and Carlisle, the on board crew change at Lockerbie, this morning 1S25 was waiting in the platform while 1M16 was held outside the station due to the failed freight a unfortunate situation all round.

 

[TimboM]

It may have got stuck behind a train which broke down at Lockerbie, but the Sleeper itself was canned at Watford due to a problem with the train (code M8). https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C36783/2020-04-22/detailed

Cancelled at Watford and ran ECS direct to Wembley. Not a lot point heading into Euston and then doing the ECS shunts when 3 hours late and with a handful of people on board.

 

[TimboM]

Was there any clear reason why the 47 wasn't adding as much traction as expected? It seemed very quiet when it was leaving Inverness compared to other 47's although there's a lot of noise from the 73 and I don't have much recent experience with 47's as they are rare visitors here:

Because it's a 47? Called "Duffs" for a reason...

After it worked 1M16 the 73/9 returned solo in the morning with 1S25. I seem to recall it made it to Inverness quicker...!

 

[greatkingrat]

Cancelled at Watford and ran ECS direct to Wembley. Not a lot point heading into Euston and then doing the ECS shunts when 3 hours late and with a handful of people on board.

RTT shows it arriving into Euston at 1056? It also shows the ECS departing Euston at 1100 which seems rather quick.

 

[TimboM]

RTT shows it arriving into Euston at 1056? It also shows the ECS departing Euston at 1100 which seems rather quick.

The Euston arrival and timings on 5M16 (ECS) were all manual entries to fudge/"kill" the paths. It went from Watford to Wembley... trust me!

 

[Far north 37]

73967+969 on 1S25 this morning 66725 at millerhill now presume its required for engieering work this weekend saves on the regular weekend light engine moves to and from roberts road surprised they weren't doing it before.

 

[TimboM]

73967+969 on 1S25 this morning 66725 at millerhill now presume its required for engieering work this weekend saves on the regular weekend light engine moves to and from roberts road surprised they weren't doing it before.

66725 was swapped out Thurs night with 73967 (and 73969) working 1S25 early Friday morning as well as 1M16/1S25 last night. Not to do with any requirement for engineering works.

 

[Far north 37]

66725 was swapped out Thurs night with 73967 (and 73969) working 1S25 early Friday morning as well as 1M16/1S25 last night. Not to do with any requirement for engineering works.
[/QUOTEI see it was just an assumpion is that the 66s back of it for now.

 

[garethep]

In terms of Mk5 workings, 47727 has only assisted one out and back run on the Inverness portion - 1S25 on the morning of Fri 8 Nov last year and then back that evening. As noted above, it's not the ideal solution as needs two drivers and I also recall it not providing as much additional grunt up the hills as might have been expected.

It's done an ecs from Polmadie to Edinburgh as well with a dead 92 as translator...sorry for the rubbish pictures!

 

[Essexman]

I wonder whether the year limit for Flexipass tickets will be extended. I bought my latest pass in February and have had to cancel two trips, one at short notice as meeting cancelled due to Covid and too late to cancel outward booking, and one which had been booked on last years pass. Hence I have 11 single journeys but no idea when they can be used. If I can't travel this summer I would hope they'd be extended to cover next summer, otherwise I'll have to make all six visits to Scotland in autumn / winter. Others must be in a similar position.

 

[Gonzoiku]

Don't you anyway have the option to extend validity by buying another Flexipass? Granted, it's doubling down, but doesn't require a decision by CS.

GZ

 

[MrEd]

I wonder whether the year limit for Flexipass tickets will be extended. I bought my latest pass in February and have had to cancel two trips, one at short notice as meeting cancelled due to Covid and too late to cancel outward booking, and one which had been booked on last years pass. Hence I have 11 single journeys but no idea when they can be used. If I can't travel this summer I would hope they'd be extended to cover next summer, otherwise I'll have to make all six visits to Scotland in autumn / winter. Others must be in a similar position.

I like to think that CS would show some goodwill here, or at least offer a part refund on the unused journeys, particularly as they need to do everything they can at the moment to discourage non-essential travel, but must maintain/win back customer loyalty for when restrictions end- I notice that many tourism businesses in Scotland are allowing customers to use their deposit/pre-payment towards a visit in 2021.

That said, if restrictions have ended by then, and the Fort William portion is back up and running, a trip up to Fort William or two in the autumn or winter is a fantastic experience. You probably wouldn’t want six of these though- hopefully they’ll see sense and carry these forward to the end of 2021.

 

[Essexman]

I usually do a couple of winter trips each year. Last year I did the 'day' trip to Fort William & Mallaig in December. Wonderful trip. I did it once before in winter to use up a spare ticket and walked on Ben Nevis until it snowed. I also did an extra 'day' trip last November, visiting Breich, Arbroath, Montrose & coming back from Aberdeen. It was a brilliant day, arriving at Breich before 9am with deep frost but sunshine. I'm happy to do more but will be disappointed if CS don't extend validity of the Flexipass so I can do some in summer.

You can carry over 5 'vouchers' to the next pass but whether I buy another one will depend on cost and whether I still need to do some business travel to Scotland.

 

[Oscar46016]

Sorry for the request here - but with a thread of 243 pages I'm sure the info is there somewhere it's trying to find it!

What is the format of the CS?

I'm presuming it's a 92 to Carstairs then ( Usually ) a split there and 2 x 73s on the Inverness and 1 x 73 on the Fort William Sections?

 

[Far north 37]

Sorry for the request here - but with a thread of 243 pages I'm sure the info is there somewhere it's trying to find it!

What is the format of the CS?

I'm presuming it's a 92 to Carstairs then ( Usually ) a split there and 2 x 73s on the Inverness and 1 x 73 on the Fort William Sections?

Only the glasgow and edinburgh go to carstairs 92 all the way to glasgow then another one takes the edinburgh portion

The inverness aberdeen and fort william splits and joins at edinburgh waverley 92 south 73s or 66/73 north.

 

[Carlisle]

Given the NHS isn’t currently overwhelmed I fail to now see any good reason for running the sleeper until the lockdown is lifted