Caledonian Sleeper

[InOban]

Surely the sensible procedure would be to allow the Edinburgh passengers to stay onboard if they choose and allowed to come back by a daytime train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely the sensible procedure would be to allow the Edinburgh passengers to stay onboard if they choose and allowed to come back by a daytime train.

I doubt anyone will stop them doing that.

 

[JonathanH]

A further update of the Mk5 formations was posted on a gen group at the weekend. Since then, of course, the service has been reduced with a service from London splitting at Edinburgh for Inverness and Glasgow. This obviously means that four eight-car formations are being used rather than eight to provide the service.

15312 has reappeared replacing 15317.

The reported formations (and their evolution) are listed below:

CS01 14-Oct 15004-15101-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206
>>>> 26-Oct 15004-15101-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206
>>>> 23-Nov 15004-15101-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206
>>>> 07-Dec 15004-15101-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206
>>>> 04-Jan 15004-15101-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206
>>>> 18-Jan 15002-15101-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206
>>>> 01-Feb 15002-15106-15201-15308-15307-15303-15304-15206
>>>> 15-Feb 15002-15106-15201-15308-15307-15338-15326-15211
>>>> 22-Feb 15002-15106-15201-15308-15307-15338-15326-15211
>>>> 07-Mar 15002-15106-15201-15308-15307-15317-15310-15213
>>>> 21-Mar 15002-15106-15201-15308-15307-15312-15310-15213

CS02 14-Oct 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15322-15306
>>>> 26-Oct 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15322-15306
>>>> 23-Nov 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15322-15306
>>>> 07-Dec 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15306-15214
>>>> 04-Jan 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15306-15330
>>>> 18-Jan 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15306-15330
>>>> 01-Feb 15005-15103-15202-15311-15312-15313-15306-15330
>>>> 15-Feb 15005-15103-15202-15311-15303-15313-15306-15330
>>>> 22-Feb 15005-15103-15202-15311-15303-15313-15306-15330
>>>> 07-Mar 15005-15103-15202-15311-15303-15313-15306-15330
>>>> 21-Mar 15004-15101-15202-15311-15303-15313-15306-15330

CS03 14-Oct 15008-15106-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 26-Oct 15008-15106-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 23-Nov 15008-15106-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 07-Dec 15008-15106-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 04-Jan 15008-15102-15203-15210-_____-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 18-Jan 15008-15102-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 01-Feb 15008-15102-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 15-Feb 15008-15102-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 22-Feb 15008-15102-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 07-Mar 15008-15102-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209
>>>> 21-Mar 15008-15102-15203-15316-15324-15325-15329-15209

CS04 14-Oct 15007-15105-15205-15314-15333-15332-15331-15330
>>>> 26-Oct 15007-15105-15205-15314-15332-15331-15330-15333
>>>> 23-Nov 15006-15105-15205-15314-15332-15331-15330-15333
>>>> 07-Dec 15011-15105-15205-15314-15332-15331-15330-15333
>>>> 04-Jan 15011-15105-15205-15314-15332-15331-15322-15333
>>>> 18-Jan 15011-15105-15205-15314-15332-15331-15322-15333
>>>> 01-Feb 15011-15105-15205-15314-15332-15331-15322-15333
>>>> 15-Feb 15011-15105-15205-15314-15332-15331-15322-15333
>>>> 22-Feb 15011-15105-15205-15314-15332-15331-15322-15333
>>>> 07-Mar 15011-15105-15205-15314-15332-15331-15322-15333
>>>> 21-Mar 15011-15105-15205-15314-15332-15331-15322-15333

CS05 14-Oct 15009-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 26-Oct 15009-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 23-Nov 15009-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 07-Dec 15007-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 04-Jan 15007-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 18-Jan 15007-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 01-Feb 15007-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 15-Feb 15007-15108-15204-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 22-Feb 15007-15101-15208-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 07-Mar 15007-15104-15208-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309
>>>> 21-Mar 15007-15104-15208-15318-15328-15320-15319-15309

CS06 14-Oct 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15208
>>>> 26-Oct 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15208
>>>> 23-Nov 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15208
>>>> 07-Dec 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15213
>>>> 04-Jan 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15213
>>>> 18-Jan 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15213
>>>> 01-Feb 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15213
>>>> 15-Feb 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15213
>>>> 22-Feb 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15317-15310-15213
>>>> 07-Mar 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15210-15304-15206
>>>> 21-Mar 15003-15109-15207-15323-15321-15210-15304-15206

CS07 14-Oct 15010-15107-15210-15334-15305-15327-15335-15315
>>>> 26-Oct 15010-15107-15210-15334-15305-15327-15335-15315
>>>> 23-Nov 15010-15107-15210-15334-15305-15327-15335-15315
>>>> 07-Dec 15010-15107-15210-15334-15305-15327-15335-15315
>>>> 04-Jan 15010-15107-15214-15334-15327-15335-15315-15305
>>>> 18-Jan 15010-15107-15214-15334-15327-15335-15315-15305
>>>> 01-Feb 15010-15107-15214-15334-15327-15335-15315-15305
>>>> 15-Feb 15010-15107-15214-15334-15327-15335-15315-15305
>>>> 22-Feb 15010-15107-15214-15334-15327-15335-15315-15305
>>>> 07-Mar 15010-15107-15214-15334-15327-15335-15315-15305
>>>> 21-Mar 15010-15107-15314-15334-15327-15335-15315-15305

CS08 14-Oct 15011-15102-15212-15339-15338-15340-15326-15211
>>>> 26-Oct 15011-15102-15212-15339-15338-15340-15326-15211
>>>> 23-Nov 15002-15110-15212-15339-15337-15338-15326-15211
>>>> 07-Dec 15002-15110-15212-15339-15337-(15338-15326-15211)
>>>> 04-Jan 15009-15110-15212-15339-15337-15338-15326-15211
>>>> 18-Jan 15009-15110-15212-15339-15337-15338-15326-15211
>>>> 01-Feb 15009-15110-15212-15339-15337-15338-15326-15211
>>>> 15-Feb 15009-15110-15212-15339-15337-15210-15304-15206
>>>> 22-Feb 15009-15110-15212-15339-15337-(15210-15304-15206)
>>>> 07-Mar 15009-15110-15212-15339-15337-15338-15211-15204
>>>> 21-Mar 15009-15110-15212-15339-15337-15338-15211-15204

Fort William day coaches
14-Oct 15006-15104
26-Oct 15006-15104
23-Nov 15007-15104
07-Dec 15006-15102
04-Jan 15002-15104
18-Jan 15004-15104
01-Feb 15006-15101
15-Feb 15004-15104
22-Feb (15004-15104)
07-Mar 15006-15108
20-Mar 15006-15108

It looks from a subsequent posting that last night's departures were formed of:

1S25 CS05+CS03 (1S25 and 1S26 on Saturday morning)
1M16 CS04+CS06 (1M11 on Saturday morning)

That I think leaves sets CS02 and CS08 at Wembley and CS01 and CS07 at Polmadie. Presumably there will be some rotation of these sets over time.

 

[TimboM]

That I think leaves sets CS02 and CS08 at Wembley and CS01 and CS07 at Polmadie. Presumably there will be some rotation of these sets over time.

That's correct re. the ones at Wembley and Polmadie, plus all the spares and 15006 + 15108 ex-FTW day coaches are at Polmadie too.

So far this week (including tonight) it's been the same sets used (CS05+CS03 and CS04+CS06).

 

[Dave1954]

Sorry for being a pain in the butt ... but how come 1S25 the Sleeper is still operating , we supose to be all on lockdown apart from the emergency services that is . Just who are these people travelling
this distance to the north and south every night. Im not a kill joy far from it or am I missing something ?? Rant over !
Regards Dave 1954.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry for being a pain in the butt ... but how come 1S25 the Sleeper is still operating , we supose to be all on lockdown apart from the emergency services that is . Just who are these people travelling

I know one person who is travelling on Avanti between Chorley and London as he's involved in the Government response and they do for some reason partly want those on site. He seems to be reporting entire Pendolinos to himself.

There could well be people from Scotland doing this.

 

[satters]

I travelled the sleeper back before privatisation when there were rumours of it ceasing,
Best railway experience I’ve ever had

 

[Bletchleyite]

I travelled the sleeper back before privatisation when there were rumours of it ceasing,
Best railway experience I’ve ever had

It's certainly a very good railway experience but not so great in terms of getting a good night's kip

 

[TimboM]

Sorry for being a pain in the butt ... but how come 1S25 the Sleeper is still operating , we supose to be all on lockdown apart from the emergency services that is . Just who are these people travelling
this distance to the north and south every night. Im not a kill joy far from it or am I missing something ?? Rant over !
Regards Dave 1954.

Couple of observations:
Four passengers were reported as getting off 1M16 this morning at Euston, so the first answer to your question is "not many people at all are travelling" (which tallies with essential travellers only).
The Sleeper has now been made free to NHS staff - so clearly being made available as an option (for now) for the front line workers.

That would suggest that Transport Scotland's view (along with other stakeholders) is that they want to keep the service running for now to help facilitate any key workers who do need to travel from London to Scotland (or vice versa).

I'd also suggest that if travel was essential, doing it in a private berth (with en suite facilities for regular hand washing etc) on the Sleeper (or a deserted Pendolino as noted above) would be a more preferable/safer way to travel then on a plane which are renown for spreading bugs.

 

[theironroad]

I'd imagine that for example any NHS staff working in London and living in Scotland (or vv) will be far too busy at work to be popping home for a couple of days.

Now parliament is in recess, I doubt there are any key workers using the sleeper.

There should be pretty much zero domestic air flights at the moment and I see on reporting Scotland just now that all HIAL airports will close to commercial traffic sometime this weekend.

If travel is really for key workers only, one or two Anglo Scottish trains a day should suffice and I wouldn't really expect anyone to be doing the full journey.

 

[Dave1954]

Couple of observations:
Four passengers were reported as getting off 1M16 this morning at Euston, so the first answer to your question is "not many people at all are travelling" (which tallies with essential travellers only).
The Sleeper has now been made free to NHS staff - so clearly being made available as an option (for now) for the front line workers.

Thanks for your observations Timbo , lovely to be informed that the Sleeper has been made free to all NHS Staff . Thank you .

 

[infobleep]

I'd imagine that for example any NHS staff working in London and living in Scotland (or vv) will be far too busy at work to be popping home for a couple of days.

Now parliament is in recess, I doubt there are any key workers using the sleeper.

There should be pretty much zero domestic air flights at the moment and I see on reporting Scotland just now that all HIAL airports will close to commercial traffic sometime this weekend.

If travel is really for key workers only, one or two Anglo Scottish trains a day should suffice and I wouldn't really expect anyone to be doing the full journey.

Interestingly the Cornish Riviera has been cancelled. So do more people on essential travel need a sleeper connection to Scotland than to Cornwall?

 

[MrEd]

Interestingly the Cornish Riviera has been cancelled. So do more people on essential travel need a sleeper connection to Scotland than to Cornwall?

Plausibly, although I have no statistics to back this up. The Lowlander certainly serves Scotland’s two largest cities and the whole of the wider Central Belt, so would perhaps have the most ’essential’ travellers of any sleeper train on the UK network. There may well be some need to keep the Inverness portion too, perhaps for critical NHS workers or even the military- I’m sure CS have probably taken Transport Scotland’s lead in deciding which portions to keep and which to cancel for the time being. I am sure that the Scottish Government would have encouraged its cessation if they did not feel it to be an essential part of Scotland’s transport infrastructure. The minute loadings do perhaps make you question whether it is worth keeping CS running at the moment, but Transport Scotland must have good reasons for the Inverness sleeper’s (and the Glasgow’s) continuing to run. The Night Riviera probably carries no more ’essential’ travellers than the Fort William portion on CS, hence both these routes have been axed until the government advice on non-essential travel changes.

As for the Aberdeen portion, the highland portion which has the least healthy loadings anyway, CS probably took the view that anyone who really *needed* to be in Aberdeen could take the Inverness train to Perth and get a connecting train from there, or get the Glasgow portion and a connecting train from Glasgow.

There’s a suggestion that CS have reduced their fares during this period, to take into account the reduction in on-board services (no catering at all in the evenings now apparently, and very limited breakfast) and the fact that their service can only be of use to essential travellers, not tourists, for the foreseeable future.

 

[InOban]

There was a report that there are plans to bring in nurses into London from less-affected areas. They tend to work 3-4 12-hour shifts, but of course would be advised to remain in London to avoid distributing the virus.

 

[theironroad]

There was a report that there are plans to bring in nurses into London from less-affected areas. They tend to work 3-4 12-hour shifts, but of course would be advised to remain in London to avoid distributing the virus.

I realise you didn't say this, but I'd be surprised if there is a mass movement from Scotland to London of nurses and doctors especially as plans have been mooted for a temporary mass hospital at the SEC in Glasgow.

 

[TimboM]

There’s a suggestion that CS have reduced their fares during this period, to take into account the reduction in on-board services (no catering at all in the evenings now apparently, and very limited breakfast) and the fact that their service can only be of use to essential travellers, not tourists, for the foreseeable future.

Or is it that with the very low loadings, it's the cheapest band tickets that are still available. whereas normally these have already been bought up?

 

[FQTV]

Or is it that with the very low loadings, it's the cheapest band tickets that are still available. whereas normally these have already been bought up?

I received an email from Caledonian Sleeper earlier which expressly said that they’d reduced fares in the near term to facilitate travel for those who felt compelled to make essential journeys.

It could be spinning the natural effects of lower tiers reappearing, as formerly non-refundable tickets are being cancelled and returned to the quotas from which they came, but I suspect not.

 

[Kite159]

I received an email from Caledonian Sleeper earlier which expressly said that they’d reduced fares in the near term to facilitate travel for those who felt compelled to make essential journeys.

It could be spinning the natural effects of lower tiers reappearing, as formerly non-refundable tickets are being cancelled and returned to the quotas from which they came, but I suspect not.

Or they could have reduced the fares for the berths due to the low demand

 

[FQTV]

Or they could have reduced the fares for the berths due to the low demand

Except that it would, quite obviously, be irresponsible to do so, and potentially grossly irresponsible to say so.

 

[47271]

Club Single Inverness-Euston for Sunday 5 April is coming up at £150.

Probably around £100 less than the cheeky Club fare that they usually ask, but hardly cheap enough to stimulate unnecessary trips.

 

[LeylandLen]

I see SNCF in France is using specially adapted TGVs to move patients around. Obviously if Caledonian Sleeper has any unused stock , im sure that could be put to good use, would be welcome by NHS. Obviously people and equipment needed to deep clean the stock but it seems many have volunteered tp help out the NHS.

 

[Meerkat]

I see SNCF in France is using specially adapted TGVs to move patients around. Obviously if Caledonian Sleeper has any unused stock , im sure that could be put to good use, would be welcome by NHS. Obviously people and equipment needed to deep clean the stock but it seems many have volunteered tp help out the NHS.

Have you seen the photos of the ambulance TGVs?! Very bodged, and very cramped looking.
Bit surprised you can’t whip all the seats out fairly easily.
Not sure we have the same need as the French with their very geographically lopsided casualties - we might need to reduce the pressure on London, but not sure we have any cities with a light enough risk to send them more patients.

 

[theironroad]

I see SNCF in France is using specially adapted TGVs to move patients around. Obviously if Caledonian Sleeper has any unused stock , im sure that could be put to good use, would be welcome by NHS. Obviously people and equipment needed to deep clean the stock but it seems many have volunteered tp help out the NHS.

I'd suggest modified or even unmodified tgv are far more suitable than the the Cally sleeper.

If all the patients were mobile and able to walk then it might be possible. The only really suitable accessible rooms are the PRM rooms at carriage end. The corridor inside the train is very narrow and pretty sure wouldn't be accessible for even a simple stretcher or wheelchair , though possibly the specialist very narrow ones I believe ambulances use. Another alternative, buy not sure on size is the ones that are used on planes to transfer people from a regular wheelchair to their seat.

Once in the cabin, space is limited and for nursing staff and kit.

Once the patient has been moved by road at each end, it would probably take longer than going by the empty roads but if fully kitted ambulances are being used it would free them up for other use.

Considering the distances involved compared to France I really don't see the sleeper or day trains being used to move patients around considering temporary hospitals are being built in London, Birmingham, Manchester me possibly Glasgow.

 

[theironroad]

Have you seen the photos of the ambulance TGVs?! Very bodged, and very cramped looking.
Bit surprised you can’t whip all the seats out fairly easily.
Not sure we have the same need as the French with their very geographically lopsided casualties - we might need to reduce the pressure on London, but not sure we have any cities with a light enough risk to send them more patients.

Having just looked at the pics and videos of the patients on the tgv, it does look very cramped and a lot of staff involved. Probably easier to use a military medevac equipped plane if their going from Paris to south etc. Seems like on one video, 20 patients were moved by tgv from Strasbourg to le mans /Nantes in the west, about 700km

Have France built a similar facility in Paris as being built in Excel London at NHS nightingale?

 

[mde]

we might need to reduce the pressure on London, but not sure we have any cities with a light enough risk to send them more patients.

The alternatives could be the additional Nightingale Hospitals opening in Manchester and Birmingham, although gauging could well be an issue there.

Or alternatively, the field hospitals in Scotland - one site being offered is a former contact centre at the old IBM Campus in Spango Valley, which of course, is rail connected… albeit, there could be similar issues with gauge. This could take load off the Highlands where ICU resource is slim at best; but, it's whether or not there isn't a more suitable method of transport already available…

 

[al78]

One bit of good news for me, I have had my ticket refunded. I didn't expect it to be that quick.

 

[6Z09]

One bit of good news for me, I have had my ticket refunded. I didn't expect it to be that quick.

Yes,credit where credit due, in contrast to many airlines that are putting flights on hold rather than refunding, in some cases even although the route has been suspended!

 

[Kite159]

I was just playing with rebooking my trip at the end of May (yes I am hopeful things might have been relaxed, but at the moment the hotel I'm booked in isn't being flexible with dates booked so far in advance), seems you can get tickets to Edinburgh but the online system isn't returning anything for Glasgow (a bit like that Edinburgh - Glasgow service hasn't been linked together in the back end system to allow through bookings).

 

[alistairlees]

I was just playing with rebooking my trip at the end of May (yes I am hopeful things might have been relaxed, but at the moment the hotel I'm booked in isn't being flexible with dates booked so far in advance), seems you can get tickets to Edinburgh but the online system isn't returning anything for Glasgow (a bit like that Edinburgh - Glasgow service hasn't been linked together in the back end system to allow through bookings).

Glasgow doesn't work for 17th May to 29th May at the moment. An issue with Network Rail not inputting the data correctly, this has been pointed out and they are aware. There's a few other dates that don't work too. Should all be fixed in a day or two.

 

[Kite159]

Glasgow doesn't work for 17th May to 29th May at the moment. An issue with Network Rail not inputting the data correctly, this has been pointed out and they are aware. There's a few other dates that don't work too. Should all be fixed in a day or two.

Cheers