Caledonian Sleeper

[Steve Harris]

That I didn’t know- makes a lot of sense in many ways.

Another point- did BR usually honour the fact that passengers were allowed to remain on board until well after arrival, or were they in practice keen to turf everyone off as soon as possible (as sometimes seems to be the case with CS’ Up Lowlander when it arrives early at Euston? The timetables seem to suggest that you’re allowed to stay in the berth until 08:00 at Euston on the up Highlander, but most crews that I’ve experienced seem to want you to vacate on arrival. The only time I ever used the northbound Lowlander into Glasgow, around a year ago, we were told to vacate on arrival just after 07:20, even though the timetable suggests that you can stay in your berth until about 07:45. Should the ’vacate cabins by’ times actually be taken with a pinch of salt? Obviously there’s no problem with the northbound Inverness or Fort William trains being ’vacate immediately on arrival’, as these arrive at very sociable times and the crews on these routes have had a long enough shift as it is!

To answer your question... all I can say is this. I have not had any experience of being turfed off sleeper services early in BR days. However, that experience consisted of partaking in a 2 week All Line Rail Rover yearly between 1987 and the late 90's.

Therefore it could of gone on and I just got lucky.

 

[47271]

Then why do the windows exist? I can't imagine an aircraft being allowed to fly with an overwing exit locked off, for instance. They are either needed or they are not.

Very much at third or fourth hand I believe they were included in the design in an early mix up on Spanish versus UK regulations, and that the resulting issues were one of the causes of significant delay to the build overall, but that's just gossip from over a year ago. I have no reputable source other than 'lounge talk'.

Just on the 'berths vacated by' issue. I don't ever remember having a problem with this in Scotrail days, but when I say that I would've always been very clear on when I was entitled to remain on board until, and the attendant would've known that. I've only been chivvied politely in the circumstances of a late arrival into Euston, which is a completely different thing. It's never arisen with me in the CS era, but then my sleeper trips are few and far between since they took over.

My advice is to pleasantly disagree with whoever's applying pressure, quoting the correct time, and see what they do. I bet it would be absolutely nothing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Very much at third or fourth hand I believe they were included in the design in an early mix up on Spanish versus UK regulations, and that the resulting issues were one of the causes of significant delay to the build overall, but that's just gossip from over a year ago. I have no reputable source other than 'lounge talk'.

Ah. In that case I'm surprised they don't just lock them all permanently and remove any stickers indicating them as exits.

My advice is to pleasantly disagree with whoever's applying pressure, quoting the correct time, and see what they do. I bet it would be absolutely nothing.

If you're awake that's true, they can just be told politely to get lost (this does sometimes seem to happen with hotels when the staff forget you've paid for late checkout). If you intended on being asleep until 0720 or so then quickly rise, dress and go for shower and breakfast elsewhere, that's rather raw. (I can do up and out including the 3 Ss in 15 minutes, I became quite good at this when I was going for crack of dawn flights every Monday morning).

 

[Essexman]

Back in Scotrail days I was once hassled after arrival at Euston by a member of staff who knocked on my door three times to tell me I had to get out. It was well before the advertised time and on the last occasion she told me I had to get off as the train was about to be taken to the depot. On alighting I saw that the locomotive hadn't even arrived to haul it from the station.

 

[6Z09]

I would make fewer journeys on the Lowlander if we had to vacate immediately on arrival. The night's sleep is short

I recently contacted CS about power going off soon after arrival in Edinburgh, midway through using en suite facilities. Customer Service said they were grateful for feedback and would pass it on.

The Edinburgh power issue is not likely to change, Loco has to detach to runaround ready for departure to Depot, given the timings and how busy Waverley is at that time of morning, add in the fact the sleeper is occupying one of the longer platforms, I can't see any easy fix.
It is something that should have been thought about, the toilets don't flush either as has been previously mentioned!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Edinburgh power issue is not likely to change, Loco has to detach to runaround ready for departure to Depot, given the timings and how busy Waverley is at that time of morning, add in the fact the sleeper is occupying one of the longer platforms, I can't see any easy fix.
It is something that should have been thought about, the toilets don't flush either as has been previously mentioned!

The fix is probably to change the advertised vacate time. You need to be honest about what you're offering people.

 

[6Z09]

The fix is probably to change the advertised vacate time. You need to be honest about what you're offering people.

You are right, and it goes back to the launch of the new stock, promises made that were, and still are unlikely to be delivered .

 

[InOban]

The Edinburgh power issue is not likely to change, Loco has to detach to runaround ready for departure to Depot, given the timings and how busy Waverley is at that time of morning, add in the fact the sleeper is occupying one of the longer platforms, I can't see any easy fix.
It is something that should have been thought about, the toilets don't flush either as has been previously mentioned!

I thought they had substantial battery power to keep accessories operational for 30 minutes?

 

[45107]

Deleted and try again later

 

[45107]

Seemed a slightly odd decision given a quick glance at RTT suggested pretty much a normal HML service ran throughout Sunday

Maybe staffing issues trying to to get the stock from Perth to Inverness over the weekend after terminating short ?

 

[Carlisle]

Maybe staffing issues trying to to get the stock from Perth to Inverness over the weekend after terminating short ?

Sounds the most likely answer, cheers .

 

[mikey9]

To contrast the CS kicking out time discussion above, on the Rome to Sicily sleeper last summer - I fortunately had the family all awake and sitting in the Cabins - packed and ready when we arrived around 20+ mins early into Catania Centrale. Bit of a panic to get off quickly - good job too as it left 15 minutes early onward to Siracuse (I assume it "drops off only" - so doesn't worry too much about this....).
Glad we didn't push it with sleeping in!!

 

[Hooligan]

All three northbound highlanders this morning piloted by 66’S and 73’s as ETHELS

 

[adrock1976]

The Edinburgh power issue is not likely to change, Loco has to detach to runaround ready for departure to Depot, given the timings and how busy Waverley is at that time of morning, add in the fact the sleeper is occupying one of the longer platforms, I can't see any easy fix.
It is something that should have been thought about, the toilets don't flush either as has been previously mentioned!

If I am visualising things right, the loco upon arrival at Waverley that has hauled the Edinburgh portion from Carstairs is facing in the direction of Berwick upon Tweed.

Does the empty stock then continue to Craigentinny where it remains until the next London working?

I cannot see how the loco has to uncouple and run round in Waverley station.

 

[trebor79]

If I am visualising things right, the loco upon arrival at Waverley that has hauled the Edinburgh portion from Carstairs is facing in the direction of Berwick upon Tweed.

Does the empty stock then continue to Craigentinny where it remains until the next London working?

I cannot see how the loco has to uncouple and run round in Waverley station.

Because the empty stock goes to Polmadie, not Craigentinny.

 

[adrock1976]

Because the empty stock goes to Polmadie, not Craigentinny.

Many thanks - that makes sense regarding the loco run round.

How come the stock more or less retraces its route west to Polmadie when there is already an Intercity type depot only 2 or 3 miles east of Waverley station? The Mk III stock used to go to Craigentinny, but the Mk V appears to go to Pomade now (in the west).

I totally despair at how the country has ended up in the terrible state it is in nowadays.

 

[marks87]

Many thanks - that makes sense regarding the loco run round.

How come the stock more or less retraces its route west to Polmadie when there is already an Intercity type depot only 2 or 3 miles east of Waverley station? The Mk III stock used to go to Craigentinny, but the Mk V appears to go to Pomade now (in the west).

I'm pretty sure the Mk2/3 stock used to go to Polamdie as well.

In any case, it's fairly obvious why it makes sense to maintain at one depot instead of splitting the stock between two.

I totally despair at how the country has ended up in the terrible state it is in nowadays.

That's a bit of an over the top reaction to where a TOC decides to maintain its stock.

 

[alangla]

All three northbound highlanders this morning piloted by 66’S and 73’s as ETHELS

Proper ETHELs or actually multi-d up with the 66?

 

[GLC]

Because the empty stock goes to Polmadie, not Craigentinny.

Do you happen to know if there is a reason that the train could not loop around the sub, as the Fife Circle 68s do?

All three northbound highlanders this morning piloted by 66’S and 73’s as ETHELS

forgive my ignorance, but what is the EL of ETHEL?

 

[Bletchleyite]

forgive my ignorance, but what is the EL of ETHEL?

Ex-Locomotive, according to Wiki.

 

[trebor79]

Do you happen to know if there is a reason that the train could not loop around the sub, as the Fife Circle 68s do?

No idea.

 

[xotGD]

forgive my ignorance, but what is the EL of ETHEL

Electric Train Heating Ex Locomotive

3 - off Class 25s were converted to supply ETH to Mark 3 sleepers when steam heat 37s were still operating the West Highland.

(There is a rather fetching photo of one of them on my 'Back in the Day' thread in the Trip Reports section)

 

[Hooligan]

Do you happen to know if there is a reason that the train could not loop around the sub, as the Fife Circle 68s do?

The sub not electrified and 92 on sleeper

 

[marks87]

Do you happen to know if there is a reason that the train could not loop around the sub, as the Fife Circle 68s do?

It would need a diesel, either to haul from Carstairs (completely under the wires), or just for the ECS.

If/when the Sub is wired it might be a consideration.

 

[185143]

I'm pretty sure the Mk2/3 stock used to go to Polamdie as well.

In any case, it's fairly obvious why it makes sense to maintain at one depot instead of splitting the stock between two.



That's a bit of an over the top reaction to where a TOC decides to maintain its stock.

The Mk2/3 did indeed go to Polmadie. Here's an ECS at Curriehill.

 

[JohnMcL7]

All three northbound highlanders this morning piloted by 66’S and 73’s as ETHELS

Why did that happen for Fort William and Aberdeen?

 

[GLC]

The sub not electrified and 92 on sleeper

Ah of course! I forgot it was a 92 on that portion. I knew there would be a sensible reason

 

[Mag_seven]

How come the stock more or less retraces its route west to Polmadie when there is already an Intercity type depot only 2 or 3 miles east of Waverley station?

Because the maintenance/servicing contract is with Alstom who are at Polmadie.

 

[TimboM]

Proper ETHELs or actually multi-d up with the 66?

Multi'd with the 66s and providing traction too last I heard.

 

[Mainliner]

Very much at third or fourth hand I believe they were included in the design in an early mix up on Spanish versus UK regulations, and that the resulting issues were one of the causes of significant delay to the build overall, but that's just gossip from over a year ago. I have no reputable source other than 'lounge talk'.

Coincidentally, the latest Tripadvisor review includes a reference to this: “Going to bed the fun started. We didn’t sleep at all during the trip. There was a loud never ending noise from the window. It was like going with high speed through a windtunnel. At first we thought it would be simply dealt with by just closing the window but that was impossible.

A member of staff apologised profoundly and told us that this complaint was a daily fact. It would never be solved since it was a well known design fault, since the windows were doubling as emergency exits”