Caledonian Sleeper

[Scotrail84]

All looked to he going fairly well on this mornings sleepers but 1s25 northbound Highlander to Inverness has just hone gone from 16L at Blair Atholl to 51L at Dalwhinnie

Where are the single track sections on that route?

 

[158820]

Where are the single track sections on that route?

Plenty of them on the highland mainline couldnt name them all. Anyway its clawed back 11 mins to 40 late.

 

[Scotrail84]

Plenty of them on the highland mainline couldnt name them all. Anyway its clawed back 11 mins to 40 late.

Seems its still not arrived in Inverness.

 

[Kendalian]

Doesn’t look like it’s left Carrbridge. Trouble with climbing? If it’s 2 73s has one died and it can’t get up to Slochd on 1 73?

From memory the double track sections are Perth to Stanley Jnc (8 miles), Blair Atholl to Dalwhinnie (23 miles) and Culloden Viaduct into Inverness (5 miles).

 

[BRX]

Posts on scot-rail gen group suggest 47727 has paired with the 73 on the Inverness portion this morning?

 

[BRX]

Trouble with climbing? If it’s 2 73s has one died and it can’t get up to Slochd on 1 73?

That would fit with the 30 mins lost on the climb to Drumochter.

edit - well, it's now made it to Inverness 38 mins late!

It looks like there might have been other problems going on, the LNER HST left Inverness over an hour late and the subsequent scotrail service also late.

 

[Norther Monkey]

Is there really any need for sleeper guards or crew to tweet the journey?

The communication needs to improve and by all means there should be a social media/front line control presence between something like 5am-Midnight.

But realistically does there need to be a presence to the point that the spotter in C6 who’s stirred in the night gets a chain by chain update on the progress of the journey?

I don't want a chain by chain update. I simply think that a service that now markets and prices itself as a high end experience should, at any point throughout the journey, be able to provide me with details of any delays and revised ETAs should I want those details.
I'm not particularly bothered how they achieve this, but an internet post (of some sort) would seem be be less disruptive for passengers and crew rather than dealing with individual enquiries.

 

[Kendalian]

That would fit with the 30 mins lost on the climb to Drumochter.

edit - well, it's now made it to Inverness 38 mins late!

It looks like there might have been other problems going on, the LNER HST left Inverness over an hour late and the subsequent scotrail service also late.

Yes just seen that, looks like RTT was on a go slow!

Is it snowing up there?!

 

[BRX]

Yes just seen that, looks like RTT was on a go slow!

Is it snowing up there?!

Apparently it is yes.

 

[trebor79]

I don't want a chain by chain update. I simply think that a service that now markets and prices itself as a high end experience should, at any point throughout the journey, be able to provide me with details of any delays and revised ETAs should I want those details.
I'm not particularly bothered how they achieve this, but an internet post (of some sort) would seem be be less disruptive for passengers and crew rather than dealing with individual enquiries.

Nah, last thing I want to do in the middle of the night is start staring at a phone or tablet screen. Just makes it even more difficult to sleep.
In fact I'd probably rather not know the train was late, nothing I can do about it anyway and might as well keep snoozing.

Perhaps if you don't think they provide the service you want, you could choose a different mode of transport?

 

[BRX]

It's useful to know whether it's late.

When I'm on the sleeper there's usually a point at 6 or 7am where I squint, half asleep, at the RTT listing for the train on my phone. If it's on time then I know I'll have to get up at the time I've already decided. If it's late I know I can reset my alarm and have a little bit more shuteye. If I'm being met by someone at my destination, I might at that point send them a message to let them know, if there's a significant delay.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes just seen that, looks like RTT was on a go slow!

Is it snowing up there?!

Yes, it was snowing. I was on the INV portion this morning.

 

[Hooligan]

Doesn’t look like it’s left Carrbridge. Trouble with climbing? If it’s 2 73s has one died and it can’t get up to Slochd on 1 73?

From memory the double track sections are Perth to Stanley Jnc (8 miles), Blair Atholl to Dalwhinnie (23 miles) and Culloden Viaduct into Inverness (5 miles).

Worked south with only one 73 last night, 73968 gubbed, didn’t do too badly

 

[John R]

It's useful to know whether it's late.

When I'm on the sleeper there's usually a point at 6 or 7am where I squint, half asleep, at the RTT listing for the train on my phone. If it's on time then I know I'll have to get up at the time I've already decided. If it's late I know I can reset my alarm and have a little bit more shuteye. If I'm being met by someone at my destination, I might at that point send them a message to let them know, if there's a significant delay.

And this information is readily available on RTT or National Rail for both passengers and picker-up’ers without the need for an all night twitter feed.

 

[Norther Monkey]

Nah, last thing I want to do in the middle of the night is start staring at a phone or tablet screen. Just makes it even more difficult to sleep.
In fact I'd probably rather not know the train was late, nothing I can do about it anyway and might as well keep snoozing.

Perhaps if you don't think they provide the service you want, you could choose a different mode of transport?

If I'm on my way home, I agree. I'm happy to enjoy a lie in and arrive when I arrive. If I'm travelling to work there are 24 hour duty staff I can call who can then make arrangements to cover my late arrival.
I do use alternative arrangements, increasingly often, for a variety of reasons.

And this information is readily available on RTT or National Rail for both passengers and picker-up’ers without the need for an all night twitter feed.

Caledonian Sleeper is now both marketed and priced as a premium service. I'd expect them to take responsibility not only for informing me (should I want) of any delay but provide a little context and likelihood of any recovery or further delay (fully realising that for perfectly valid reasons this may be estimated or incomplete as the situation develops).
This is, for me, simple customer service to meet the expectations their marketing and pricing create.

 

[ashkeba]

I have always thought the E* guards tweets to be useless. They merely duplicate what must be the content of their on train announcements, and I’ve always thought the purpose of them tweeting was simply to make them visible to people *not* travelling as company ambassadors.

"what must be the content of their on train announcements" - so you have not been on a disrupted E*? I have and found the tweets very useful, especially when it affected other trains around me too. In at least one case, we made reasonable estimates about our likely ETA from their announcements and started making arrangements for our delay into London rather than having to wait for an on train announcement from our train crew who were probably rather busy dealing with the incident itself.

I realise that may not work quite as well on CS with fewer trains but there may be times where information from the Highlander crew may be useful to Lowlander passengers or the opposite.

 

[AlterEgo]

"what must be the content of their on train announcements" - so you have not been on a disrupted E*? I have and found the tweets very useful, especially when it affected other trains around me too. In at least one case, we made reasonable estimates about our likely ETA from their announcements and started making arrangements for our delay into London rather than having to wait for an on train announcement from our train crew who were probably rather busy dealing with the incident itself.

I realise that may not work quite as well on CS with fewer trains but there may be times where information from the Highlander crew may be useful to Lowlander passengers or the opposite.

The announcements on the train are useful. Because of this, the tweets are not. If I’m on the train, I’ll hear the announcements.

I follow most of the E* guard accounts. Most passengers won’t follow any and will likely go to the main E* account for info. How will they know @EurostarBob or whoever is one of the TMs?

Have a browse of the TM tweets; I’ve yet to encounter them speaking to anyone who is actually on their train. It’s mostly broadcasting to enthusiasts.

 

[ashkeba]

I follow most of the E* guard accounts. Most passengers won’t follow any and will likely go to the main E* account for info. How will they know @EurostarBob or whoever is one of the TMs?

Most passengers will use the hashtag for their service. They don't really care whether information comes from a TM or a passenger, but having the TMs on there can help to debunk some of the nonsense of the type seen on some forums, especially if the main account retweets them when there is a doubt.

 

[JohnMcL7]

What will be hauling the Inverness portion this evening?

Edit: just been down to have a look and the 47 is still there so I assume it will be hauling it with the 73.

I noticed the 73's engine was not running but the coaches were powered up, there also looked to be a new junction box down at the far end so it looks like they're powered from the station? Always seemed a bit wasteful having the 67 running foe a good portion of the day

 

[35B]

Because someone has just stirred and wonders what's going on.

You don't get notifications in the middle of the night if someone just Tweets.

Not everyone is going to be asleep.

I used the up Highlander last night. We arrived on time at Euston, but the pick-ups were late. Looking at the RTT feed for last night's sleepers, the schedules have so much slack in them that a train can go from early to late and back again; that doesn't need a lot of communication, and as a passenger I was only really interested in when I'd arrive in Euston.

If CS are to improve their comms, I'd like to see much better communication of the ETAs at pick-ups - there's a nice little lounge at Stirling, but the guy manning it didn't have a lot of information. I'm not sure I'd have wanted to wait an extra 20 minutes at Newtonmore or Dunkeld, say, so being told of the delay would have been useful. I know how RTT works and can get the information - that's not true of everyone.

 

[MrEd]

Where are the single track sections on that route?

The HML is single track from Stanley Junction (7 miles north of Perth) to Blair Atholl, with crossing loops at Dunkeld and Pitlochry. Then it is double track for the 23 miles over Druimuachdar Pass from Blair Atholl to Dalwhinnie, then back to single track all the way from Dalwhinnie to Culloden Moor (with crossing loops at Kingussie, Kincraig, Aviemore, Carrbridge, Slochd, Tomatin and Moy) then finally double track for the last 6 miles from Culloden Moor into Inverness. The Dalwhinnie to Kingussie section is a comparatively long section of single line and delays can often be encountered here if the sleeper is late. The sleeper would need to wait at Dalwhinnie to pass the 06:40 Inverness to Edinburgh if it could not get to Kingussie or Kincraig (where it is scheduled to cross) to pass it without holding it up. Generally, from past experience on the HML, the signallers will try not to hold up the southbound services (which could cause/encounter more serious problems in the Central Belt when running late) and will make the delayed sleeper wait. On Wednesday morning, when running two hours down, we were held at Stanley Junction for about ten minutes to wait for the 06:40 Inverness to Edinburgh to clear the single line section from Dunkeld, and again at Dalwhinnie for the Highland Chieftain HST.

 

[Chris999999]

Most passengers will use the hashtag for their service. They don't really care whether information comes from a TM or a passenger, but having the TMs on there can help to debunk some of the nonsense of the type seen on some forums, especially if the main account retweets them when there is a doubt.

Do you really think so?
Most passengers would be totally unaware of this, or how to find out how to find the hashtag for their service.
On train announcements on my delayed Eurostar together with another glass of wine seemed more than adequate for me.

 

[bobbyrail]

Problem is that a north bound train could be be say 80l at Crewe but it could be running 50l by Preston then 35l at Carlisle and arriving at Carstrairs OT, so if the Train manager/ conductor/ guard told everyone that the train was running 80Late at crewe it could be irrelevant by the time that the service gets to Carstairs. Their is a lot a lot of slack in the timetable plus the discretion of the signallers to alleviate or compound the delay. Other trains also use the tracks that the sleeper uses so a signaller may choose to hold a very late running sleeper in order to prevent a Scotrail service running late from Inverness.

 

[leightonbd]

Those who really want to know where they are will use the maps app on their phone.

If you can’t access it, it means you are in the Highlands already ...

 

[BRX]

Problem is that a north bound train could be be say 80l at Crewe but it could be running 50l by Preston then 35l at Carlisle and arriving at Carstrairs OT, so if the Train manager/ conductor/ guard told everyone that the train was running 80Late at crewe it could be irrelevant by the time that the service gets to Carstairs. Their is a lot a lot of slack in the timetable plus the discretion of the signallers to alleviate or compound the delay. Other trains also use the tracks that the sleeper uses so a signaller may choose to hold a very late running sleeper in order to prevent a Scotrail service running late from Inverness.

This is exactly the reason why some 'oficial' info from CS is more useful than leaving people to try and work things out from RTT or whatever. CS are in the position to make a judgement about what time to put out a statement, and include in it some indication of how definite any estimated time might be.

 

[Bald Rick]

Those who really want to know where they are will use the maps app on their phone.

If you can’t access it, it means you are in the Highlands already ...

Or Kilsby tunnel.

 

[ashkeba]

Do you really think so?
Most passengers would be totally unaware of this, or how to find out how to find the hashtag for their service.

It's on the passenger info screens in every coach. I think it is on the e-ticket too if you buy from certain vendors but I don't have a current one to check.

 

[35B]

This is exactly the reason why some 'oficial' info from CS is more useful than leaving people to try and work things out from RTT or whatever. CS are in the position to make a judgement about what time to put out a statement, and include in it some indication of how definite any estimated time might be.

Which is precisely what happened on Thursday morning’s down Lowlander. We received the information in good time to make decisions as they applied to us.

 

[Hipster Dashie]

Condition 14:1 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT):



The key bit is that two or more tickets can be combined to make a journey i.e. a full trip. Some TOCs don't like it, so you may get a few funny staff members who seem to think you can't do this. It helps a lot if you can get an itinerary by booking through an accredited split ticketing site like TrainSplit.

Wicked, thanks for the info! I'll keep a copy of the NRCOC saved to my device just in case something happens, hopefully not though!!!

 

[_toommm_]

NRCOC

This may be pedantry, but the NRCoC was superseded by the NRCoT. The NRCoT generally affords you more rights with split ticketing IIRC so if you did mention it please mention the NRCoT so as to avoid any additional conflict.

Either way, I doubt ScotRail will kick up a fuss, especially when they're used to it with the Sleeper...