Caledonian Sleeper

[mde]

The union defends peoples working conditions.
Serco have failed to act since the ballot was held,hence the strike dates are now being put forward.

Serco tend to be a tad tone-deaf when it comes to employee relations…

 

[Journeyman]

Serco tend to be a tad tone-deaf when it comes to employee relations…

...and the RMT never miss an opportunity to strike. I don't support them here, I don't think it will achieve anything, besides making Caledonian Sleeper's problems even worse.

 

[mde]

...and the RMT never miss an opportunity to strike. I don't support them here, I don't think it will achieve anything, besides making Caledonian Sleeper's problems even worse.

Well, they've had the mandate available for some time (July) and have only just announced strike action… the question that comes to mind is "what's forced their hand?".

It is, of course, entirely possible that the Union have sat on their hands running the clock down; but, that seems a little unlikely.

 

[Antman]

The union defends peoples working conditions.
Serco have failed to act since the ballot was held,hence the strike dates are now being put forward.

I thought the bingo buzzword winner was safety these days. They try to avoid saying “we want more money” because even they have realised it looks bad in an economy where pay rises are very low and many of their members do pretty well compared to society as a whole.

If Serco is actually not implementing what it agreed to then strikes as a last resort may be justified. But does anyone believe either side is being transparent in what has been said and what it is doing ?

 

[Journeyman]

Well, they've had the mandate available for some time (July) and have only just announced strike action… the question that comes to mind is "what's forced their hand?".

It is, of course, entirely possible that the Union have sat on their hands running the clock down; but, that seems a little unlikely.

I don't think anything forced their hand. The RMT is extremely opportunistic in trying to force maximum damage on franchises, and I suspect they're just trying to kick Serco when they're down. The RMT would absolutely love to drive a franchise to collapse, and I suspect that's their biggest motivation here.

 

[47271]

My understanding of the trigger for this strike action, which was voted for some time ago but suspended, is that Serco is attempting to introduce new stock onto the Highlander before staff are happy that it is practical and safe to do so.

This is likely to explain its precise dates from the last Sunday in September onwards.

Sleeper crew are probably amongst the least militant on the railway so, on this occasion, and because of the reasons provided, I think strike action is entirely legitimate.

Remember the last time they voted to strike in late 2015 was on grounds of safety and maintenance on the old stock. In the end standards were improved and industrial action didn't take place.

 

[Kite159]

I don't think anything forced their hand. The RMT is extremely opportunistic in trying to force maximum damage on franchises, and I suspect they're just trying to kick Serco when they're down. The RMT would absolutely love to drive a franchise to collapse, and I suspect that's their biggest motivation here.

If the franchise collapses, I can see it being the end of the sleeper in the current form, only based on how much it losses.

And if Scottish taxpayers get the option of paying for a niche product or paying towards new roads/hospitals etc then you know which will come out on top.

All the shiny new stock will end up going abroad, or being sold to the high end tourist market (Royal Scotsman?)

 

[Journeyman]

If the franchise collapses, I can see it being the end of the sleeper in the current form, only based on how much it losses.

And if Scottish taxpayers get the option of paying for a niche product or paying towards new roads/hospitals etc then you know which will come out on top

It depends on whether the Scottish Government is willing to appoint an operator of last resort, or merge it back into ScotRail, but either option is fraught with difficulty, and I agree - if things don't turn around soon, I suspect we're going to end up with a lot of expensively redundant rolling stock that no-one can afford to run.

 

[Meerkat]

Appoint operator of last resort then merge into Scotrail at the next franchise change.
Or suggest to Abellio that if they merge it now then they might get cut more slack on other issues

 

[InOban]

I thought that strike mandates were time-limited?

 

[trebor79]

It depends on whether the Scottish Government is willing to appoint an operator of last resort, or merge it back into ScotRail, but either option is fraught with difficulty, and I agree - if things don't turn around soon, I suspect we're going to end up with a lot of expensively redundant rolling stock that no-one can afford to run.

Why should that happen if the operating company collapses? They didn't park up all the trains running up and down the ECML when those operators collapsed. It would have to go to OLOR at least whilst the long term future of the franchise was sorted out. Is there even a precedent for wholesale abolition of a franchise AND the services that it operates? Surely there has to be some kind of due process for proposed permanent removal of services?

 

[trubla]

I thought that strike mandates were time-limited?

6 months from the date the ballot closed.

 

[Journeyman]

Why should that happen if the operating company collapses? They didn't park up all the trains running up and down the ECML when those operators collapsed. It would have to go to OLOR at least whilst the long term future of the franchise was sorted out. Is there even a precedent for wholesale abolition of a franchise AND the services that it operates? Surely there has to be some kind of due process for proposed permanent removal of services?

Have you seen how much money this operation loses? All the problems they're having are making a heavily-subsidized service lose even more money, and if Serco throw in the towel or are booted off the franchise, someone needs to decide if the huge amount of public money required to operate it remains justifiable.

The ECML operates packed trains that can cover their costs and generate decent profits, although jinxed by bidders offering massive premiums and then getting into trouble. The Sleepers are never going to even remotely cover their costs, and if it gets too difficult to keep them going, it's likely that they might be given up as a bad job.

Since services were re-routed away from Westerton a few years ago, I don't think there's any bits of track not covered by other daytime services, so the sleepers could be withdrawn fairly easily, without any closure process.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I thought that I had read that previously planned industrial action had been ‘suspended’ on the promise that Serco would provide some additional staffing support (at least for a while). Can someone confirm that in fact no extra cover is forthcoming?

 

[47271]

I thought that I had read that previously planned industrial action had been ‘suspended’ on the promise that Serco would provide some additional staffing support (at least for a while). Can someone confirm that in fact no extra cover is forthcoming?

Judging by the number of the services running with shut lounges on both Highlander and Lowlander and, I've heard, only two hosts across six sleepers on the Lowlander then, no, it hasn't been forthcoming. To be fair they can't instantly train teams if they're continuing to lose staff at the rate that they have been.

The Lowlander appears to be in reasonably stable operation now but that won't necessarily translate to the Highlander in two weeks time, with its far more complex operation, meal demand in lounges, and exposure of the service to stock that still isn't properly run in.

 

[Antman]

We are back on running in. The stock is two years old. At least. And years old from when it started CAD design and testing. From an established manufacturer.

This isn’t a 1950s modernisation plan order off plan and see what turns up.... it should be working by now.

 

[BRX]

People often forget that going on strike comes at cost to those who take that option, because wages are forfeited. Especially for those on lower wages. I'm guessing that the sleeper staff are not as well paid as drivers are, for example, and losing a coyple of days' worth of pay will not be trivial.

Having seen at first hand how things have been on the sleeper recently, I'm not surprised staff are fed up.

 

[cambsy]

I imagine the Scottish government will get involved and bang heads together to get the strike action averted, they wont tolerate anymore bad sleeper publicity, as they are heavily subsidising the service, can see Serco getting their arses handed to them on a plate by the Scottish government, this would be disasterous for the sleeper, and if reading the RMT news page, it could be a long term problem if not resolved, and doing an ALR that week, which could totally balls up my trip, have to cancel it probably if strike action goes ahead.

 

[Meerkat]

Do the RMT not offer strike pay? If they are on a political mission to bring down franchising as some believe then I would have thought they would.

 

[Carntyne]

As many have said, sleeper staff aren't the most militant, and it's them who have decided to go on strike, not Mick Cash on some "political mission".

 

[BigCj34]

Have you seen how much money this operation loses? All the problems they're having are making a heavily-subsidized service lose even more money, and if Serco throw in the towel or are booted off the franchise, someone needs to decide if the huge amount of public money required to operate it remains justifiable.

The ECML operates packed trains that can cover their costs and generate decent profits, although jinxed by bidders offering massive premiums and then getting into trouble. The Sleepers are never going to even remotely cover their costs, and if it gets too difficult to keep them going, it's likely that they might be given up as a bad job.

Since services were re-routed away from Westerton a few years ago, I don't think there's any bits of track not covered by other daytime services, so the sleepers could be withdrawn fairly easily, without any closure process.

Does make one wonder why they mark it as some kind of exclusive premium service if the tax payer funds it anyway. Sure, maybe a few suites can be high end but the standard ones ought to benefit the locals and general public if the taxpayers ultimately. Sure the seats are affordable, but no sane person who has got work or a business meeting the next day ought to bank on a good night's sleep with the seats (especially most cases require a midnight carriage change in Edinburgh).

 

[BigCj34]

Why does the sleeper not run on Saturday nights? It would especially be beneficial for day-trippers wanting to go to Fort William on the week-end, but there is no evening train on the Saturday from Fort William, and no early morning train from Glasgow/Edinburgh to Fort William on the Sunday (a day trip is possible on the bus though).

If there is some operational reason couldn't Scotrail plug that gap?

 

[Iskra]

Why does the sleeper not run on Saturday nights? It would especially be beneficial for day-trippers wanting to go to Fort William on the week-end, but there is no evening train on the Saturday from Fort William, and no early morning train from Glasgow/Edinburgh to Fort William on the Sunday (a day trip is possible on the bus though).

If there is some operational reason couldn't Scotrail plug that gap?

Engineering works are often done on Saturday night on the railway. It also might attract a lot of drunks on a Saturday night too.

 

[alangla]

If the franchise collapses, I can see it being the end of the sleeper in the current form, only based on how much it losses.

And if Scottish taxpayers get the option of paying for a niche product or paying towards new roads/hospitals etc then you know which will come out on top.

Well, the current idiots in Holyrood own a basket case airport (Prestwick) an oil fabrication yard with no work (BiFab) and a shipyard that was saved by one of their donors then bankrupted by one of their contracts (Ferguson) so I wouldn’t bet against it. There’s also been rumblings about CalMac rail for a while.

Does make one wonder why they mark it as some kind of exclusive premium service if the tax payer funds it anyway. Sure, maybe a few suites can be high end but the standard ones ought to benefit the locals and general public if the taxpayers ultimately.

Lots of politicians and media types use it....

 

[Bald Rick]

Why does the sleeper not run on Saturday nights? It would especially be beneficial for day-trippers wanting to go to Fort William on the week-end, but there is no evening train on the Saturday from Fort William, and no early morning train from Glasgow/Edinburgh to Fort William on the Sunday (a day trip is possible on the bus though).

If there is some operational reason couldn't Scotrail plug that gap?

When the sleepers went to 6 nights a week, Saturdays were effectively ghost trains with some newspapers on board. You only have to look at congestion on the motorways and domestic airlines schedules to see that Saturday night / Sunday morning is the quietest time on the long distance transport network.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When the sleepers went to 6 nights a week, Saturdays were effectively ghost trains with some newspapers on board. You only have to look at congestion on the motorways and domestic airlines schedules to see that Saturday night / Sunday morning is the quietest time on the long distance transport network.

I think realistically it's only rail enthusiasts who would consider day-tripping a journey of that length, and having used the FW seats very, very few people use the northbound service as a day train, it's just too early. (It is used reasonably well in the other direction, though).

FWIW, the lack of a Sunday morning train from FW to Glasgow is I believe being remedied this winter (until now you had to use the morning Citylink bus, and it often books up well in advance). It will be interesting to see if that causes a reduction in sleeper passengers by making it possible to reach the South East by daytime train on a Sunday in winter, which wasn't previously possible.

 

[Bald Rick]

It will be interesting to see if that causes a reduction in sleeper passengers by making it possible to reach the South East by daytime train on a Sunday in winter, which wasn't previously possible.

Can’t believe there’s that much of a market for travel from Ft Bill to SE England on a winter Sunday. But yes it will be interesting to see if he sleeper is affected.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can’t believe there’s that much of a market for travel from Ft Bill to SE England on a winter Sunday.

Winter climbing in the area is quite popular - and climbers, being generally somewhat tight, are perfect candidates for the seats. The quiet time is probably September-November before the ice climbing routes are "in".

 

[Bald Rick]

Winter climbing in the area is quite popular - and climbers, being generally somewhat tight, are perfect candidates for the seats. The quiet time is probably September-November before the ice climbing routes are "in".

I know, but being tight they stay in the various bunkhouses and come back the next day, or drive up with a few friends to share the cost! (Speaking for myself, in the latter case).

 

[BigCj34]

I think realistically it's only rail enthusiasts who would consider day-tripping a journey of that length, and having used the FW seats very, very few people use the northbound service as a day train, it's just too early. (It is used reasonably well in the other direction, though).

FWIW, the lack of a Sunday morning train from FW to Glasgow is I believe being remedied this winter (until now you had to use the morning Citylink bus, and it often books up well in advance). It will be interesting to see if that causes a reduction in sleeper passengers by making it possible to reach the South East by daytime train on a Sunday in winter, which wasn't previously possible.

Assuming availability, even a regular service could fulfil the role 19:00 FW to Glasgow service, with an early Sunday service probably as a repositioning run. Having 2 day services on the Sunday is very low.

When did the Sleeper last run on a Saturday? Now it's more popular than ever is it worth another shot?