Caledonian Sleeper

[Indigo Soup]

To be fair with a very short train on a railway designed for 10x26m does make it easier for them to provide lounge and seating coach capacity than CS. The seats don't even require reservations, as there is far more capacity than is ever likely to be needed on the overnight section, and adding another Mk3 if they did need to wouldn't make the train too long for Paddington.

The Riviera is a charming little operation, but it's a much simpler one with far fewer limitations and constraints than CS.

The equivalent for Caledonian Sleeper would be running five trains a night each way. I don't believe for one moment that they would do that, even if the Train Gods gifted them the rolling stock and a couple of spare platforms at Euston. The operating costs would be ludicrous.

 

[MisterT]

I booked the sleeper from Fort William to London for August 28 and just got an e-mail stating that it won't run with the new Mk5 coaches, but with the old ones, and that I can get a £20 refund, or a full cancellation, or change my reservation to a different date:

Good morning

We are contacting you regarding your journey booked with us for travel on our Highland services in the coming weeks.

Unfortunately, we are very sorry to have to inform you that due to a delay in the availability of our new trains, we will not be able to operate our new fleet on your journey. We recognise that this is disappointing news and we apologise for this.

We will instead, be running our current trains and can therefore still ensure you get to your destination and experience our excellent levels of service and hospitality on board.

Our decision to put back the introduction by a few weeks has been taken to allow CAF, the manufacturer, to complete the further work required on the carriages to ensure that they are fit for purpose to be accepted into service. This is intended to ensure that when they do enter service our guests have the best possible experience. We will be confirming a new date for introducing our new trains on our Highland routes as soon as possible.

If you still want to travel with us on your original booking date, you don’t need to do anything else. Your booking will be automatically updated to an alternative accommodation type on our current trains, and the tickets you have remain valid for your journey. You do not require replacement tickets.

Your reservation will be automatically transferred to a room on our current train. We will automatically refund you £20 per room.

Please be aware all rooms will be configured with both beds made up. However you will still receive the First Class amenities that your ticket offers, including complimentary breakfast, Arran toiletries, First Class Lounge access and priority access to the Lounge Car.

However, we understand if you wish to change or cancel your journey with us. If this is the case, we have two options available:

1. You can cancel your booking and we will give you a full refund, even if you did not book a flexible ticket.
2. We can re-book you on to a service when our new trains are in operation. Again, this option is available for holders of both fixed and flexible tickets.

Edit: and that refund is for the Club Room supplement only.

 

[Essexman]

Are you getting a refund for the full difference between the Classic and Club room rates?

They will be getting an email from me.

 

[MylesHSG]

I booked the sleeper from Fort William to London for August 28 and just got an e-mail stating that it won't run with the new Mk5 coaches, but with the old ones, and that I can get a £20 refund, or a full cancellation, or change my reservation to a different date:

Probably a good decision they've made there. Better to have a few disappointed passengers who wanted the new stock than go ahead with new stock that can't be relied upon.

 

[Steggets]

I booked the sleeper from Fort William to London for August 28 and just got an e-mail stating that it won't run with the new Mk5 coaches, but with the old ones, and that I can get a £20 refund, or a full cancellation, or change my reservation to a different date:

The email I have received for London to Aberdeen in a club room mid-July states I'm getting a third refunded plus £20 per room.

I'm rather glad they have made the decision to use the old stock.

 

[MisterT]

I have only a supplemental ticket for the Club room (I already have a 1st class ticket), so that's where my £20 comes from, I think. It's 1/5 of the total supplement cost, so that's reasonable in my opinion. I mean, the only difference for me is that I don't have my own en suite.

 

[Leisurefirst]

I too have email about my two September journeys, (in seats so not so much of an issue).
Disappointed but as has been said, rather I got there.
Cancelling and day trains not an option for me as I will either miss two days or have to increase my accommodation spend massively.
Not having much luck with CS.
2016 journey bussed from Waverley to FW due to ScotRail strike.
2018 journey old stock instead of new.
(Mind did treat us to 1st instead of seats as a result coming back and got to sample lounge and meal!)
2019 same again now.
Oh well...

 

[marcolau]

If you booked direct with CS, you will receive something different, note the highlighted words in bold; I planned to travel on 29 Sep (Sun), booked 1st Class (old system):

Good morning

We are contacting you regarding your journey booked with us for travel on our Highland services in the coming weeks.

Unfortunately, we are very sorry to have to inform you that due to a delay in the availability of our new trains, we will not be able to operate our new fleet on your journey. We recognise that this is disappointing news and we apologise for this.

We will instead, be running our current trains and can therefore still ensure you get to your destination and experience our excellent levels of service and hospitality on board.

Our decision to put back the introduction by a few weeks has been taken to allow CAF, the manufacturer, to complete the further work required on the carriages to ensure that they are fit for purpose to be accepted into service. This is intended to ensure that when they do enter service our guests have the best possible experience. We will be confirming a new date for introducing our new trains on our Highland routes as soon as possible.

If you still want to travel with us on your original booking date, you don’t need to do anything else. Your booking will be automatically updated to an alternative accommodation type on our current trains, and the tickets you have remain valid for your journey. You do not require replacement tickets.

Your reservation will be automatically transferred to a room on our current train. We will automatically refund you one third of what you have paid plus £20 per room.

Please be aware all rooms will be configured with both beds made up. However you will still receive the First Class amenities that your ticket offers, including complimentary breakfast, Arran toiletries, First Class Lounge access and priority access to the Lounge Car.

However, we understand if you wish to change or cancel your journey with us. If this is the case, we have two options available:

1. You can cancel your booking and we will give you a full refund, even if you did not book a flexible ticket.
2. We can re-book you on to a service when our new trains are in operation. Again, this option is available for holders of both fixed and flexible tickets.

Guess the new train introduction has been delayed significantly...

 

[RochdalePioneers]

I have just received an email from Serco apologising that my booked sleeper from Inverness to London will now be in Mk3s due to a delay in introduction of the Mk5s:

"Our decision to put back the introduction by a few weeks has been taken to allow CAF, the manufacturer, to complete the further work required on the carriages to ensure that they are fit for purpose to be accepted into service. This is intended to ensure that when they do enter service our guests have the best possible experience. We will be confirming a new date for introducing our new trains on our Highland routes as soon as possible."

My journey is Wednesday 24th July...

 

[side effect]

My son will be delighted when I tell him the news. He was checking every day to see if he could be on the last ever old highlander that was due on 7th July.

I will text him once he's home from school.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

Have just spotted the other posts - they're delaying the introduction on the Highlander for a good while then!

Supposedly TPE mess room gossip has it that their Mk5 fleet is going into warm storage - the same for Caledonian Sleeper?

 

[MrEd]

Have they given a new date for the introduction of Mk5s on the Highlander, or is it delayed indefinitely? Clearly they won’t be ready even in September. Would early October perhaps be an achievable introduction date? It’s perhaps best not to rush their introduction and to make sure that they’re working reliably.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

It depends how long it takes CAF to send over enough hammers to fix the stock

 

[Bletchleyite]

Have they given a new date for the introduction of Mk5s on the Highlander, or is it delayed indefinitely? Clearly they won’t be ready even in September. Would early October perhaps be an achievable introduction date? It’s perhaps best not to rush their introduction and to make sure that they’re working reliably.

They would make themselves look less stupid if they didn't give a date.

 

[nickswift99]

When's the next significant date in terms of rolling stock exams/maintenance? How far out can the Mk 5 sets go before there start to be operational/financial issues?

 

[Eddd]

Glad to receive my email and text as it lifts my confidence that I'll be notified of any last-minute problems, not that I'm expecting a phone signal at Corrour.

I'm also not too disappointed with a final trip in the old stock, though I thought I did that last year, and a first for my baby daughter.

 

[sdrennan]

They were quoting to people on Twitter yesterday that it was still 8th July for the Highland. Obviously they need to brief their twitter team better.

https://twitter.com/CalSleeper/status/1143569523397857281

Caledonian Sleeper‏ @CalSleeper Jun 25
Replying to @thefreqtravels
Hello, New rolling stock will be with us for the 8th of July. LL

 

[JonathanH]

They were quoting to people on Twitter yesterday that it was still 8th July for the Highland. Obviously they need to brief their twitter team better. https://twitter.com/CalSleeper/status/1143643029749882881

Maybe the firm decision to delay was only made yesterday.

 

[GarethC]

I wonder whether someone has been reading this thread, I'm booked on the Highlander on 24th July and have had the email and a text message advising of the change. I booked directly with CS.

Classic Room is just the £20 refund per room.

As with other responses it looks like a positive move to take a bit of control of the situation.

 

[185143]

Had an email and a text informing me I'm on the old train.

 

[Essexman]

They were quoting to people on Twitter yesterday that it was still 8th July for the Highland. Obviously they need to brief their twitter team better. https://twitter.com/CalSleeper/status/1143643029749882881

Not sure it’s a Twitter ‘team’. Small number of tweets and time to respond (if they do at all) suggests it’s just a job anyone in the office does when they have a spare moment.

 

[Highlandspring]

Supposedly TPE mess room gossip has it that their Mk5 fleet is going into warm storage - the same for Caledonian Sleeper?

No .

 

[USRailFan]

Rumours have it that the Viewliners CAF are making for Amtrak in the US, and which are extremely delayed (we are talking years) have been sold to Canada without running a single mile on US rails... I think the faster Serco and TPE can get out of this deal, the better.

 

[InOban]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48770315

On the BBC.

 

[jagardner1984]

I do think this is pragmatic decision and the correct one.

I also think it’s good both Serco and Transport Scotland’s statements stick the boot into CAF’s incompetence here. (I know both aren’t exactly blameless in all this).

Presumably, whatever the next date that’s been given is, the real worry will be not having a complete reliable Mk5 operation before the end of 2019 and the resulting PRM implications.

 

[matacaster]

Perhaps a way forward to ensure sleeper trains are fit for purpose is for there to be a responsibility on the TOC managing director to spend a complete week travelling satisfactorily overnight aboard such train before it can be inflicted on the poor travelling public. One suspects the trains would not have been introduced had this been a feature of the licence to operate them.

A big problem with all recent new fleet introductions appears to have been that the testing is done by people down the food chain and by the time its been raised to director level, there are hardly any issues. Brunel would have gone and had a look himself!

 

[DelW]

If the old stock is going to have to last another 2 - 3 months (at least?) in peak season, CS need to improve the reliability of the mk2 lounge cars. A combination of a locked-out (or missing) lounge car, with cabins that have both bunks made up even for single occupancy, wouldn't provide anywhere comfortable to sit for a 12-hour journey.

 

[MisterT]

Rumours have it that the Viewliners CAF are making for Amtrak in the US, and which are extremely delayed (we are talking years) have been sold to Canada without running a single mile on US rails... I think the faster Serco and TPE can get out of this deal, the better.

Weird, I must have been imagining things then when I was on a CAF built Viewliner diner coach last year . From what I heard from the staff, the coaches simply do their job, but the ride quality is worse than the previous generation.

 

[DelW]

Rumours have it that the Viewliners CAF are making for Amtrak in the US, and which are extremely delayed (we are talking years) have been sold to Canada without running a single mile on US rails... I think the faster Serco and TPE can get out of this deal, the better.

A bit off-topic here, but AIUI at least some of the Viewliner 2 problems stem from changes in Amtrak management and policy as well as from CAF's delayed delivery. The previous regime ordered Viewliner diners, but by the time they arrived, the new boss was cutting back on-train catering to cold or microwaved airline style meals, and the new diners went into storage.

The provision of new passenger stock in the US is if anything in even more disarray than here. The traditional suppliers (Pullman, Budd) have long since gone bust, as have successors like MK and Colorado Railcar. Talgo were left in financial straits when Milwaukee ordered sets that they then decided they didn't want and wouldn't pay for. Nippon Sharyo has been unable to get its proposed (and ordered) bi-levels through structural testing, and they have been replaced by a new order for single-level cars instead.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Rumours have it that the Viewliners CAF are making for Amtrak in the US, and which are extremely delayed (we are talking years) have been sold to Canada without running a single mile on US rails... I think the faster Serco and TPE can get out of this deal, the better.

The trouble is that if the Mk5s fail, then what? Complete end of CS is the only likely outcome, perhaps a 3am "day train" service from both ends on the Lowlander but no Highlander.

None of us wants that.