Caledonian Sleeper

[kingqueen]

If I remember correctly you get such an instruction book on the refurbished Night Riviera.

I didn't, last week in the accessible room. There were some instructions on how to e.g. stow the upper bunk or extend the blasted sofa back on the bottom one, in a notice on a wall inside the wardrobe.

 

[robbeech]

Wow, there's the not-at-all-joined-up railway in full customer-unfriendly mode. I can't believe anyone seriously suggested the XC route, which wouldn't get you to Paddington until 13:52 (13:37 if you made a 3 minute connection at Reading). What use is that to someone who needed to be in London at 8 a.m.? Plus by that time there will have been several earlier arrivals via the ECML.

Even a full refund wouldn't really compensate anyone whose planned day has been ruined.

But this is sometimes how it is thought out. Once you’re definitely going to be an hour late on a CS service then there’s no incentive to get them there 65L if it’s cheaper to get them there 300L. It’s not ALWAYS the attitude but it’s easy to think it might be at times.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes that's exactly what happened. Just as I started to scrabble around to find the switch it went off again.



In the Mk3, the switch is a physical switch similar to what you'd find at home. So if it's "Off" there's a physical disconnection on the lighting circuit (or perhaps on a control circuit on a train).
The Mk5 "switch" is a button similar to what you'd find on a smart socket or smart lightswitch at home. I imagine when you switch the light off, you're actually sending a signal to a computer somewhere to "switch this light into the opposite of its current state". Hence if the computer is reset for any reason I can understand why all equipment might be briefly returned to some default state before it loads and applies the last configuration. I guess light on is a fail safe condition but it would be nice if they found a way to avoid it happening during a routine shunt.

OK, I've asked someone senior... it's a software issue and it's not in every carriage; they're aware of it and it should be fixed before long.

As to the previously mentioned light on the light switch that can't be turned off - that's a legal requirement, and yes it has to be white; they aren't allowed to use red or any other colour.

 

[kingqueen]

As to the previously mentioned light on the light switch that can't be turned off - that's a legal requirement, and yes it has to be white; they aren't allowed to use red or any other colour.

The light switch on the Night Riviera Sleeper isn't illuminated.
Probably not an issue because the door buttons are brighter than the Mastermind all-time champion, enough to see the light switch across the room.

 

[trebor79]

@Peter Mugridge Interesting, thanks for the feedback! I guess that means my supposition as to how the light switch works was more or less correct! The steward seemed to have some paperwork like a snagging list that he filled in when I mentioned the broken toilet. I expect there's lots of little things being worked through (in fact the lounge car attendant said as much, but that most of them were ironed out now)

The light around the switch does cast a surprising amount of light, I wonder if it could be made a bit dimmer?

Overall I was impressed with the quality of the rolling stock and the attention to detail in the design.

I might drop CS and email with my observations, positive and negative. Do you think they would read it or would it be a waste of my time?

 

[theshillito]

Do you think they would read it or would it be a waste of my time?

Definitely send them an email. They read every email and, worst case scenario, they filter your comments into some statistics and say "thanks for the feedback", best case scenario they do the same but address each point personally with you.

 

[Scotrail84]

Rescued by 92043.

Which was 5B26's loco.

 

[Highlandspring]

73971

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The light around the switch does cast a surprising amount of light, I wonder if it could be made a bit dimmer?

I think you'll find the level of illumination is mandated as well...

The light switch on the Night Riviera Sleeper isn't illuminated.
Probably not an issue because the door buttons are brighter than the Mastermind all-time champion, enough to see the light switch across the room.

Weren't the GWR MK 3 refurbishments specified and contracted some time before the Mk5 order was placed, meaning that the regulations might have been different then?

 

[Highlandspring]

Strange that there’s seemingly no “legal requirement” for light switches in hotels to be brightly illuminated at all times...

 

[Bungle965]

Strange that there’s seemingly no “legal requirement” for light switches in hotels to be brightly illuminated at all times...

However, your hotel room isn't going 80+mph, unless you have had one too many that is!
Sam

 

[Deafdoggie]

Different companies interpret the same rules & laws differently. Having worked in the cinema industry, the rules are simply that there is enough light for people to safely leave in an emergency. The cinema generally choose low level lighting over stairs, etc. Some landlords though insisted this meant full lighting on all aisles and doorways at all times. Usually a threat to terminate the rent brought common sense. The same rules apply but just interpreted differently.
I’ve no idea what hotel and sleeper train light rules are, but I’d be surprised if there was a specific luminous stated for switches.

 

[Bald Rick]

Strange that there’s seemingly no “legal requirement” for light switches in hotels to be brightly illuminated at all times...

I think there is, now, for the main light switch. Only for new builds, obviously.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think there is, now, for the main light switch. Only for new builds, obviously.

Best take some gaffer tape with me, then...

 

[Bald Rick]

Best take some gaffer tape with me, then...

Agreed. And as ever Roadie will tell you, if gaffer tape doesn’t fix it, you’re not using enough gaffer tape.

 

[xotGD]

Best take some gaffer tape with me, then...

To tape over your eyes to keep the light out? Other forms of eye shade are available.

 

[adrock1976]

Are blindfolds still provided in the berths/rooms on the new stock like they were on the Mk IIIs?

 

[trebor79]

No, at least I didn't find one.

 

[kingqueen]

Best take some gaffer tape with me, then...

On the Night Riviera, I just hung a T-shirt over it and the back of my Wheelchair, did the job nicely

 

[bigmoose]

Are blindfolds still provided in the berths/rooms on the new stock like they were on the Mk IIIs?

Yes, if you’re in a Club Room as it’s (sort of) the equivalent of First Class on the Mk3s. It’s in a cardboard bag with your earphones, bottle of water, and toiletries from Arran Aromatics. Same collection as on the Mk3’s, and does the job nicely.

 

[trebor79]

I was swizzled! Had the aromatics and bottle of water, but there were no ear plugs or blindfold.
Didn't matter as I never travel without ear plugs and never use a blindfold anyway.

 

[BRX]

You get blindfold & earplugs even if you are in the seats.

 

[kingqueen]

Wheelchair users in the accessible cabin (Mk 3) / double accessible cabin (Mk 5) on the Fort William Sleeper don't have access to the lounge car between London and Edinburgh because the train would be too long if the Fort William section had its own lounge car. So passengers share the Aberdeen lounge car between Edinburgh and London. An extra lounge car and seated car are added for the Fort William to Edinburgh section. This means Fort William section seated passengers are decanted onto the platform at Edinburgh and have to swap carriages after shunting. Also, the Fort William coaches not having their own lounge car between Edinburgh and London, Fort William customers use the Aberdeen lounge car. But they have to walk through all the Aberdeen sleeper coaches to get to it. This is obviously not accessible to wheelchair users. The result is that the Fort William sleeper is the only Caledonian sleeper train which has no accessible cabins with lounge access between London and Edinburgh.

I'm wondering if there are logistical problems with the seemingly simple solution: to put the Aberdeen lounge car at the other end of the Aberdeen section, with the Aberdeen accessible sleeper coach next to it on one side and the Fort William accessible sleeper coach next to it on the other. So both accessible sleeper coaches are next to it and wheelchair users from either can use the lounge.

I suspect there are physical limitations in the lounge cars such that wheelchair users can only get into the lounge from one end, also that it would make the logistics of shunting at Fort William logistically difficult or impossible, but I don't know so thought would ask.

The other thought is: is it potentially possible for a wheelchair user to get on the Aberdeen lounge car at 2030 in London, have a meal and a whisky then transfer to the Fort William sleeper car via Watford station platform or Crewe station platform? Have staff ready with two ramps, one at the lounge car and one at the sleeper car, and use the two or four minute dwell respectively to get off, down the platform and on again.

I booked the northbound Fort William sleeper without knowing that there's no access to the lounge car until Edinburgh. (Until a couple of days ago, the Sleeper website didn't make this clear.) I'm now really disappointed. Sitting in my room on my own with room service doesn't sound the same experience...

 

[jagardner1984]

In general, are rolling stock connecting doors accessible and compliant with PRM TSI ? Most I can think of would be too narrow or uneven, with the exception of the Class 700 etc.

I suppose accessibility will always be a mixture of enabling passengers to access things by themselves (appropriate height button height, grab handles etc) and support from staff to access others (platform ramps etc).

I suppose CS might argue they’ve made all efforts to provide the services in the lounge car to the accessible berths (via room service). I would approach them about it though, they always seem very helpful in their customer services.

 

[BRX]

Wheelchair users in the accessible cabin (Mk 3) / double accessible cabin (Mk 5) on the Fort William Sleeper don't have access to the lounge car between London and Edinburgh because the train would be too long if the Fort William section had its own lounge car. So passengers share the Aberdeen lounge car between Edinburgh and London. An extra lounge car and seated car are added for the Fort William to Edinburgh section. This means Fort William section seated passengers are decanted onto the platform at Edinburgh and have to swap carriages after shunting. Also, the Fort William coaches not having their own lounge car between Edinburgh and London, Fort William customers use the Aberdeen lounge car. But they have to walk through all the Aberdeen sleeper coaches to get to it. This is obviously not accessible to wheelchair users. The result is that the Fort William sleeper is the only Caledonian sleeper train which has no accessible cabins with lounge access between London and Edinburgh.

I'm wondering if there are logistical problems with the seemingly simple solution: to put the Aberdeen lounge car at the other end of the Aberdeen section, with the Aberdeen accessible sleeper coach next to it on one side and the Fort William accessible sleeper coach next to it on the other. So both accessible sleeper coaches are next to it and wheelchair users from either can use the lounge.

I suspect there are physical limitations in the lounge cars such that wheelchair users can only get into the lounge from one end, also that it would make the logistics of shunting at Fort William logistically difficult or impossible, but I don't know so thought would ask.

The other thought is: is it potentially possible for a wheelchair user to get on the Aberdeen lounge car at 2030 in London, have a meal and a whisky then transfer to the Fort William sleeper car via Watford station platform or Crewe station platform? Have staff ready with two ramps, one at the lounge car and one at the sleeper car, and use the two or four minute dwell respectively to get off, down the platform and on again.

I booked the northbound Fort William sleeper without knowing that there's no access to the lounge car until Edinburgh. (Until a couple of days ago, the Sleeper website didn't make this clear.) I'm now really disappointed. Sitting in my room on my own with room service doesn't sound the same experience...

It's not the shunting at fort william that it would complicate (all that happens there is that the loco runs round) but the shunting at edinburgh.
If you are doing the return trip too then at least you should be able to have dinner in the lounge car on that journey, which is the bit with the scenery.

 

[kingqueen]

In general, are rolling stock connecting doors accessible and compliant with PRM TSI ? Most I can think of would be too narrow or uneven, with the exception of the Class 700 etc.

In general I think only the doors required for access to the wheelchair space / berth / accessible toilet on stock, are wheelchair accessible, not other doors on a train. So that's why I'm suspecting that it is quite likely that the lounge cars, both old and new, only have wheelchair access at one end, thus making my posited formation a non-starter. But I've never been on so I can't be sure!

I would approach them about it though, they always seem very helpful in their customer services.

I've found them variable from "well intentioned" to "exceptionally helpful and pleasant" in terms of interaction, but have also sadly found that they are often somewhat hampered by convoluted access processes and inaccurate access information.

Thanks for the thoughts

 

[marks87]

It's not the shunting at fort william that it would complicate (all that happens there is that the loco runs round) but the shunting at edinburgh.

I’m not sure why it would complicate the shunting. The Aberdeen portion would still be self-contained, just with the lounge in a different place.

However, there are other issues with the proposal. As already mentioned, the corridor at the “other” end of the lounge is no wider than the corridor in the sleeper carriages. There’s also the seated passengers needing to walk through the sleeper carriages to order takeaway food/drink.

It would also break the order of the half sets, meaning more shunting at Wembley before the southbound Aberdeen/Fort William half set from one night can be used on the northbound Edinburgh/Glasgow the following night. (Not an issue now of course but will be when all services have the Mk5s).

 

[kingqueen]

the corridor at the “other” end of the lounge is no wider than the corridor in the sleeper carriages.

I suspected this would be the case but didn't know. Oh well, as suspected this was a non-starter of an idea - other stuff about seated passengers having to walk further etc., shunting complexity are I guess not an issue if it doesn't make any difference to accessibility.

 

[BRX]

I’m not sure why it would complicate the shunting. The Aberdeen portion would still be self-contained, just with the lounge in a different place.

Ignoring the issue of the seated coach - it would mean that, on arrival at Edinburgh, the accessible sleeper coach would be at the 'west' end of the FTW portion, which would mean that the FTW lounge & seats would have to be added onto that end rather than the 'east' end as at present. At the moment, the process of detaching the INV and ABD portions (done with movements from the 'west' end of Waverley) is relatively independent of the process of adding the FTW day coaches (done with movements from/to the 'east' end of Waverley).

I don't see a reason it would be impossible, but would probably mean everything took a little bit longer.

But it would either mean sleeper passengers from one portion walking through the seated coach (and the seated coach to be through-accessible by wheelchair) or (if the seated coach was marshalled at the other end of the Aberdeen portion) having the seated passengers walking through the sleeper coaches - unless... the Inverness portion was reversed to have the seats/lounge at the N end; then the Aberdeen seated passengers could walk through the Inverness seats and use the Inverness buffet. Or something!

 

[BRX]

...in other words departing Euston as: FTW sleepers(*) -- ABD lounge -- (*)ABD sleepers -- ABD seats -- INV seats -- INV lounge -- (*)INV sleepers

instead of current arrangement(?): (*)FTW sleepers -- ABD sleepers(*) -- ABD lounge -- ABD seats -- INV sleepers(*) -- INV lounge -- INV seats

(*) indicating location of accessible cabin.