Caledonian Sleeper

[VT 390]

Why not? And where does it go. RTT still suggests via BHG

Only on Sunday nights. On Monday to Fridays the southbound service from Fort William goes direct from Dalmuir to Edinburgh.
Northbound the service still calls at Queen Street each morning.

 

[Scotrail344Lad]

Huh

 

[norbitonflyer]

It could call at Queen Street if it went via Springburn,

Woukld the stock be cleared between Springburn and bellgrove? And there's route knowledge as well

 

[VT 390]

Woukld the stock be cleared between Springburn and bellgrove? And there's route knowledge as well

That partly why I original mentioned the sleeper could not call at Queen Street when operating away from via Bathgate.

 

[mcmad]

Why not? And where does it go. RTT still suggests via BHG

BHG?

 

[Bill57p9]

BHG?

Bathgate

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Mar 2026 ==

A quick look on Real-time trains shows this Sunday's Fort William - Edinburgh calling at Glasgow Queen Street and running via Bathgate but the remainder of Sundays in March running via Maryhill, Croy and Falkirk High without a Glasgow Queen Street call, just as weekdays.

 

[Western Gaffer]

A quick look on Real-time trains shows this Sunday's Fort William - Edinburgh calling at Glasgow Queen Street and running via Bathgate but the remainder of Sundays in March running via Maryhill, Croydon and Falkirk High without a Glasgow Queen Street call, just as weekdays.

That's some diversion, delay repay incoming!

 

[godfreycomplex]

Woukld the stock be cleared between Springburn and bellgrove? And there's route knowledge as well

Stock cleared and crew sign (at least on paper)

 

[Bill57p9]

That's some diversion, delay repay incoming!

Good old autocorrect...
Original post corrected

 

[route101]

Took the seated sleeper from Glasgow to Euston last night. Seat wasnt as comfortable as I thought, although I did sleep most of the way. Woke up at Watford and one person had to be woken up who was getting of there. With the timings we got to Euston just after 6am, a few people were surprised when we rolled into Euston at 6am.

 

[InvHst]

Question for anyone in the know? Sleeper website when you look at booking on Sunday the 30th August shows no WCML calls? But no mention anywhere of engineering works affecting the service?

 

[800002]

Question for anyone in the know? Sleeper website when you look at booking on Sunday the 30th August shows no WCML calls? But no mention anywhere of engineering works affecting the service?

Something tells me (guess at the moment) that a Bank Holiday in 2026 would have some sort of WCML / HS2 related block on it.
Weather it be limited to Cov / International or further north to the border.

Possibly not on sale yet as confirmed pick-ups as its still beyond the 'regualar' NR booking horizon.
Tocs are only finalising early July currently.

 

[InvHst]

Something tells me (guess at the moment) that a Bank Holiday in 2026 would have some sort of WCML / HS2 related block on it.
Weather it be limited to Cov / International or further north to the border.

Possibly not on sale yet as confirmed pick-ups as its still beyond the 'regualar' NR booking horizon.
Tocs are only finalising early July currently.

Weird Sleeper allowing you to book on a divert I'll have a look closer to the time appreciate it!

 

[Ian Hardy]

Question for anyone in the know? Sleeper website when you look at booking on Sunday the 30th August shows no WCML calls? But no mention anywhere of engineering works affecting the service?

According to the National Engineering Access Planning Maps for 29 & 30 August 2026, there is planned to be an all lines possesion through Milton Keynes from 23:00 on 30 August 2026 until 05:00 on 31 August 2026, but that shouldn't affect the sleeper as they aren't due through Milton Keynes until 06:06 (Lowland) or 07:05 (Highland).

However there is a planned ECDP possesion on the ECML between Peterborough and Hitchin until 08:00 on 31 August so that could make diversions difficult.

 

[greatkingrat]

It would affect the NB Lowland at least.

 

[Scotrail344Lad]

Indeed

 

[Deepgreen]

I am travelling tonight, to Fort William, and I have noticed from RTT that the arrival time tomorrow is 1100 rather than 1000. The day after it is back to 1000. While this is actually good for us in meaning a more leisurely breakfast, etc., I am curious why this is. EDIT - the times until Spean Bridge are 'normal' so there may be an error on RTT, although the train details do say amended schedule for 12 March only. Confused...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2026 ==

The sleepers lose a phenomenal amount of money; in the region of £100 per passenger. No Government is going to run more sleepers to throw money in the bin.

Indeed, they did enough of that when the railway was privatised...

 

[JamieL]

I am travelling tonight, to Fort William, and I have noticed from RTT that the arrival time tomorrow is 1100 rather than 1000. The day after it is back to 1000. While this is actually good for us in meaning a more leisurely breakfast, etc., I am curious why this is. EDIT - the times until Spean Bridge are 'normal' so there may be an error on RTT, although the train details do say amended schedule for 12 March only. Confused...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2026 ==


Indeed, they did enough of that when the railway was privatised...

No idea if it is the cause or not, but the weather in Argyll at the moment is terrible. Strong winds and pouring rain onto already saturated ground.

 

[CW2]

I am travelling tonight, to Fort William, and I have noticed from RTT that the arrival time tomorrow is 1100 rather than 1000. The day after it is back to 1000. While this is actually good for us in meaning a more leisurely breakfast, etc., I am curious why this is. EDIT - the times until Spean Bridge are 'normal' so there may be an error on RTT, although the train details do say amended schedule for 12 March only. Confused...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2026 ==


Indeed, they did enough of that when the railway was privatised...

There's a weather warning in force, so CS are anticipating potential delays to their service. By amending the advertised arrival time in advance, they minimise their exposure to delays repay claims.

 

[JamieL]

There's a weather warning in force, so CS are anticipating potential delays to their service. By amending the advertised arrival time in advance, they minimise their exposure to delays repay claims.

That is a very cynical way of interpreting the action and one that sees Delay Repay as the centre of the Universe. I would say that by announcing the change of timings early, it gives customers the option to not travel and have their tickets refunded which is the sort of customer focused service one has come to expect from the CS.

 

[VT 390]

That is a very cynical way of interpreting the action and one that sees Delay Repay as the centre of the Universe. I would say that by announcing the change of timings early, it gives customers the option to not travel and have their tickets refunded which is the sort of customer focused service one has come to expect from the CS.

Surely if the primary intention is to inform passengers of the delay then the timings should be amened for all stations not just the final stop.
Its always a good idea to notify passengers of a delay as early as possible to give options, however for a service such as the sleeper the timetable does not need to be amended in this way to achieve that.
If they retimed every stop I would be more supportive the late notice timetable change but the fact that Caledonian Sleeper usually only retime the final station (where most passengers will be travelling to) indicates the primary reason for retiming is not to inform passengers but to avoid paying delay repay, otherwise ScotRail should also retime their services as well.
It also appears quite unfair that someone travelling to Fort William gets no delay repay where as someone alighting at Spean Bridge (where the delay will be near enough the same at Fort William) could potentially get their entire fare back.

 

[Deepgreen]

There's a weather warning in force, so CS are anticipating potential delays to their service. By amending the advertised arrival time in advance, they minimise their exposure to delays repay claims.

However, the weather warning is not very severe, and the rain is set to turn to snow on the hills and freeze (I am going up there to hill walk and photograph so am happy about that!). The DR argument tends to assume that people don't alight en route, where the timings are not amended, but they do. I know FW accounts for the largest share, so perhaps you're right. We will see...

 

[voyagerdude220]

According to the National Engineering Access Planning Maps for 29 & 30 August 2026, there is planned to be an all lines possesion through Milton Keynes from 23:00 on 30 August 2026 until 05:00 on 31 August 2026, but that shouldn't affect the sleeper as they aren't due through Milton Keynes until 06:06 (Lowland) or 07:05 (Highland).

However there is a planned ECDP possesion on the ECML between Peterborough and Hitchin until 08:00 on 31 August so that could make diversions difficult.

View attachment 199886

Sorry for being off topic, but is this information publicly accessible?
I'm specifically trying to find out about planned diversions for Avanti trains over the Settle and Carlisle whilst the West Coast Mainline is closed.

 

[Scotrail344Lad]

Some Information is available through network rail. Just search it up

Sorry for being off topic, but is this information publicly accessible?
I'm specifically trying to find out about planned diversions for Avanti trains over the Settle and Carlisle whilst the West Coast Mainline is closed.

 

[Ian Hardy]

Sorry for being off topic, but is this information publicly accessible?
I'm specifically trying to find out about planned diversions for Avanti trains over the Settle and Carlisle whilst the West Coast Mainline is closed.

These maps and other associated planning documentation are in the Operational Rules area on the Network Rail website, so not in the normal publicly accessible area as they need more than the average rail users knowledge to understand the information (which is subject to change):

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/industry-and-commercial/information-for-operators/operational-rules/​

 

[voyagerdude220]

These maps and other associated planning documentation are in the Operational Rules area on the Network Rail website, so not in the normal publicly accessible area as they need more than the average rail users knowledge to understand the information (which is subject to change):

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/industry-and-commercial/information-for-operators/operational-rules/​

Thank you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2026 ==

Some Information is available through network rail. Just search it up

I did.

 

[SuspectUsual]

That is a very cynical way of interpreting the action and one that sees Delay Repay as the centre of the Universe. I would say that by announcing the change of timings early, it gives customers the option to not travel and have their tickets refunded which is the sort of customer focused service one has come to expect from the CS.

At best, it’s a lazy half-arsed job where they can only be bothered to change the destination time

At worst, it’s deliberate and designed to reduce delay repay liability

To think this is actually an example of “customer focused service” is to me frankly astonishing

 

[JamieL]

Surely if the primary intention is to inform passengers of the delay then the timings should be amened for all stations not just the final stop.
Its always a good idea to notify passengers of a delay as early as possible to give options, however for a service such as the sleeper the timetable does not need to be amended in this way to achieve that.
If they retimed every stop I would be more supportive the late notice timetable change but the fact that Caledonian Sleeper usually only retime the final station (where most passengers will be travelling to) indicates the primary reason for retiming is not to inform passengers but to avoid paying delay repay, otherwise ScotRail should also retime their services as well.
It also appears quite unfair that someone travelling to Fort William gets no delay repay where as someone alighting at Spean Bridge (where the delay will be near enough the same at Fort William) could potentially get their entire fare back.

If Delay Repay was a prime consideration, then they would have re-timed all the stations to ensure nobody got it. Given the overarching subsidy to the railways in general, CS in particular and low passenger volumes, I doubt Delay Repay is a particularly worrisome consideration especially now the CS is publicly operated.

In contrast, if you are getting a train to Fort William, knowing what time you are going to arrive is going to be fairly critical. Arrival at 1100 rather than 1000 might well muck up your plans for a day out if linking in with one of the coach or bus tours - or even a walking excursion - and could influence whether people wish to travel or not.

 

[35B]

If Delay Repay was a prime consideration, then they would have re-timed all the stations to ensure nobody got it. Given the overarching subsidy to the railways in general, CS in particular and low passenger volumes, I doubt Delay Repay is a particularly worrisome consideration especially now the CS is publicly operated.

In contrast, if you are getting a train to Fort William, knowing what time you are going to arrive is going to be fairly critical. Arrival at 1100 rather than 1000 might well muck up your plans for a day out if linking in with one of the coach or bus tours - or even a walking excursion - and could influence whether people wish to travel or not.

That makes sense, but I'd suggest it's even more important for someone going to one of the intermediate stations, for precisely the same reasons.

 

[VT 390]

If Delay Repay was a prime consideration, then they would have re-timed all the stations to ensure nobody got it. Given the overarching subsidy to the railways in general, CS in particular and low passenger volumes, I doubt Delay Repay is a particularly worrisome consideration especially now the CS is publicly operated.

In contrast, if you are getting a train to Fort William, knowing what time you are going to arrive is going to be fairly critical. Arrival at 1100 rather than 1000 might well muck up your plans for a day out if linking in with one of the coach or bus tours - or even a walking excursion - and could influence whether people wish to travel or not.

But the amended times Caledonian Sleeper give (especially for Fort William and Inverness) are usually far more generous than actually required, often rounded to whole hours/half hours. If the retiming was more specific are very likely to actually be accurate then I would understand retiming, otherwise they could just notify all booked passengers to expect a delay (with an approximate estimation) but not an exact retime as would be the case in most situations with most other train operators.