Caledonian Sleeper

[Mogz]

I understand that couchettes have never been a feature of UK railways, but I would love to see them here as an economical way of reviving sleeper routes.

6 bunks per compartment might seem cramped but it’s far better than a seat, and the compartments can be used as seated stock in the daytime.

Another “can we have what they have on the continent, please?” post from me!

 

[TimboM]

How does the 47 and 73 work from a functional point of view?

Presumably, the 47 does all the work, and the (dead) 73 just acts as a translator for the couplings, no other reason than a 73 failing for a 47 to be subbed in.

the class 73 provides the ets for the train it isn't hauled dead.

On the rare occasion(s) the 47 was used, it was to provide additional traction on the Inverness route where there is a Load 8 and a few steep climbs and hence pushing it to rely on a single 73/9. Hence, 2x 73/9s are normally used on this route, however when there's been a shortage of 73s, a 66, 67 or 47 has piloted.

Both locos are under power, working in tandem (not multi) - the 73/9 hadn't failed. The 73/9 provides traction and ETS, the 47 just provides traction. In this arrangement, both locos need a driver.

As noted above, when a 66 (or 67) is used to pilot a 73/9 on a similar basis it can multi via the AAR system with the 73/9, so the two locos can work in 'proper' multi and only require one driver.

 

[47271]

As of yesterday the Flexipass has gone up from £1550 to £1650 - 6.45%.
CS website says that complimentary upgrades to club berths will be made 'for a few months' (not sure whether that few months was from the new trains being fully introduced) after which the Flexipass will only cover 'classic' berths.

No quite, on the grapevine I believe that they'll launch a £1950 Club Flexipass product at the point that the upgrades cease. This is lounge gossip mind you, so believe it if you will.

 

[JohnMcL7]

On the rare occasion(s) the 47 was used, it was to provide additional traction on the Inverness route where there is a Load 8 and a few steep climbs and hence pushing it to rely on a single 73/9. Hence, 2x 73/9s are normally used on this route, however when there's been a shortage of 73s, a 66, 67 or 47 has piloted.

Both locos are under power, working in tandem (not multi) - the 73/9 hadn't failed. The 73/9 provides traction and ETS, the 47 just provides traction. In this arrangement, both locos need a driver.

As noted above, when a 66 (or 67) is used to pilot a 73/9 on a similar basis it can multi via the AAR system with the 73/9, so the two locos can work in 'proper' multi and only require one driver.

I was wondering if it was just one driver with the 47 providing traction and the 73 ETS or if it would need two drivers, is the 73 driver then doing the braking for the loco and the carriages while the 47 is only braking itself?

It's a shame the 47 isn't more usable with the stock as I think it suits the CS livery and would like to see it more.

 

[Hipster Dashie]

Is there an option to pre-book food via their website? I know that not everyone will know for sure what their dining plans will be, but many will do and at least then they could make sure they had the right food for them plus an estimate for the remaining passengers

Not anymore, this used to be a thing (my first ever trip, I pre-booked and paid for breakfast) but they've since stopped doing it. I even rang up prior to my last trip to see if I could pre-book dinner over the phone, but was told they don't do this anymore.

Seems daft that they would stop, really.

 

[Leisurefirst]

Not anymore, this used to be a thing (my first ever trip, I pre-booked and paid for breakfast) but they've since stopped doing it. I even rang up prior to my last trip to see if I could pre-book dinner over the phone, but was told they don't do this anymore.

Seems daft that they would stop, really.

Yep, went 1st as a treat last year back to London on the Highlander from Aviemore.
Pre-booked the meals but not able to choose which ones.
Even went into CS head office in Inverness as we were in town in the days prior and asked but was still told no, can't guarantee what they'll have...
Er, perhaps if you let people choose in advance you'd have an idea!
Lucky to get the two beef bourginon anyway... just!?

 

[MrEd]

I was wondering if it was just one driver with the 47 providing traction and the 73 ETS or if it would need two drivers, is the 73 driver then doing the braking for the loco and the carriages while the 47 is only braking itself?

It's a shame the 47 isn't more usable with the stock as I think it suits the CS livery and would like to see it more.

I am fairly sure that if two locos are working in tandem, only the leading loco’s driver controls the train’s braking (as the brake pipe is connected throughout). I am pretty sure that the driver of the second (assisting) loco is simply there to apply additional traction power where needed (and in this case, to respond to any warning lights and to control the ETS).

 

[Speed43125]

Both locos are under power, working in tandem (not multi) - the 73/9 hadn't failed. The 73/9 provides traction and ETS, the 47 just provides traction. In this arrangement, both locos need a driver.

As noted above, when a 66 (or 67) is used to pilot a 73/9 on a similar basis it can multi via the AAR system with the 73/9, so the two locos can work in 'proper' multi and only require one driver.

Also worth noting is that on the first few nights of Mk5s on the Highlander, the inverness portion's 73s were both crewed as well. No idea why, but very clearly drivers sitting in both units.

 

[fgwrich]

I was wondering if it was just one driver with the 47 providing traction and the 73 ETS or if it would need two drivers, is the 73 driver then doing the braking for the loco and the carriages while the 47 is only braking itself?

It's a shame the 47 isn't more usable with the stock as I think it suits the CS livery and would like to see it more.

Completely off topic, but apart from the potential difference in coupling heights, does anyone know if there is any reason why any of the former VT Class 57/3's Can’t be used on the Caley Sleeper? How does their ETS Rating compare with that of the 73/9?

 

[ainsworth74]

The discussion around nuclear power was interesting but staggeringly off-topic (seriously amongst my favourite thread drifts) so it can now be found in a new thread here.

 

[captainbigun]

Completely off topic, but apart from the potential difference in coupling heights, does anyone know if there is any reason why any of the former VT Class 57/3's Can’t be used on the Caley Sleeper? How does their ETS Rating compare with that of the 73/9?

The coupling is at the wrong height so it pretty much ends there. Add to this no pneumatics through the coupler and no PASSCOMM facility/jumper.

 

[Hooligan]

Also worth noting is that on the first few nights of Mk5s on the Highlander, the inverness portion's 73s were both crewed as well. No idea why, but very clearly drivers sitting in both units.

it was a fitter travelling with train for first few nights of Mk5s

 

[JohnMcL7]

Completely off topic, but apart from the potential difference in coupling heights, does anyone know if there is any reason why any of the former VT Class 57/3's Can’t be used on the Caley Sleeper? How does their ETS Rating compare with that of the 73/9?

I think the 57/3's have a higher ETH index of 100 compared to an ETH index of 70 for the CS 73/9's (at least going by the panel on the side), aside from the possible difference in coupling height I wondered if there needed to be compatibility to communicate with the carriages? I'd be interested to hear what the answer is.

 

[al78]

Well if it's all renewable at night then presumably the nuclear and fossil stations are completely shut down ?

How can the sleeper as being 'eco friendly' compared with other forms of rail travel. It's a low density service. Even if it was electrically powered all the way arguably you'd be more efficient sticking the passengers on ordinary seated services with higher densities. And worse - in the real world what we have with the highland services are paired diesel locomotives hauling a few coaches with low density occupation over the northern parts of the route. How do they compare with a well utilised 156 or 158 set?

It isn't when compared with a standard daytime train, because the energy efficiency of a train depends on the number of passengers using it. Trains do well at being energy efficient per passenger if full, despite being heavy and fast, because they are long tubes with a small frontal area, so they can transport a lot of people whilst not having to expend much energy per passenger moving air out of the way (which is where the majority of the energy for transport over long distances with few stops goes). It is useful to consider what would happen if the sleeper was withdrawn. Would the passengers who currently use it switch to daytime trains, or would they fly? If the latter, then it could be argued the sleeper is eco-friendly if it is acting as a substitute for air travel. It is arguably not if it is an alternative to conventional rail.

 

[MrEd]

Not anymore, this used to be a thing (my first ever trip, I pre-booked and paid for breakfast) but they've since stopped doing it. I even rang up prior to my last trip to see if I could pre-book dinner over the phone, but was told they don't do this anymore.

Seems daft that they would stop, really.

There is talk about re-introducing table reservations in the lounge car in the evenings, perhaps for the busy summer season 2020 (although I don’t think anything is set in stone yet). At breakfast, you still get a reserved table (if first class) if you indicate on your card when you order that you want breakfast in the lounge. I had heard that they were going to make it so that first class passengers in the evenings, at least on the highlander, could book a preferred time-slot for their meal (e.g. 21:00-22:00, 22:00-23:00), although I don’t know whether this is set in stone yet. The old pre-ordering system worked well some of the time but was a pain at others- for instance, hosts often did not communicate to the team leader in the lounge if a person with a reserved meal/seat had failed to show, resulting in reserved seats/tables sitting empty for long periods while a massive waiting list for seats/tables built up. In addition, you would often pre-book a meal only to arrive in the lounge to find every seat taken and that the team leader had no knowledge of your reservation. I think that if CS are going to re-introduce table reservations in the lounge in the evening, they need to make sure that they are reliably communicated (I would make it so that they show on the master berth sheet next to the passenger’s name and berth reservation so that all the on-train staff are aware of them) and that a restaurant-style policy is followed whereby the table/place is given away if the passenger does not show within 20 minutes of departure from their booked origin station (or as soon as it is known that the passenger has not boarded the train).

 

[Far north 37]

Tops showing 73971 working 1S25 solo from edinburgh to inverness this morning.

 

[PG]

Tops showing 73971 working 1S25 solo from edinburgh to inverness this morning.

Appears to have managed fine as it's showing as arrived on time.
Is the normal double heading more for reliability purposes then? ie in case one fails it doesn't block the HML

 

[Far north 37]

Appears to have managed fine as it's showing as arrived on time.
Is the normal double heading more for reliability purposes then? ie in case one fails it doesn't block the HML

Think its due to the gradients but timbom said elsewhere 73969 was probably missed of the consist and 66733 was at craigentinny and would of likely have been dispatched to assist if there was any problems with 73969.

 

[BRX]

I think the worst gradient is the climb from inverness to slochd southbound, is it? So maybe you can just get away with one loco northbound but not southbound?

 

[Indigo Soup]

I think the worst gradient is the climb from inverness to slochd southbound, is it? So maybe you can just get away with one loco northbound but not southbound?

Slochd southbound is a brutal climb, not just in gradient but also length - from a standing start at sea level to 1,315 feet in 22 miles 52 chains, for an average of 1 in 91 and ruling gradient 1 in 60. It's probably the only section of line in the UK that bears comparison to the big hills on North American railways.

Drumochter northbound has a much longer climb up from Strathtay, starting at a higher altitiute, and a ruling gradient of 1 in 70. If one loco can handle eight sleepers northbound, I'd imagine it could probably cope southbound, if it had to, but would struggle if anything was less than ideal.

 

[Essexman]

As of yesterday the Flexipass has gone up from £1550 to £1650 - 6.45%.
CS website says that complimentary upgrades to club berths will be made 'for a few months' (not sure whether that few months was from the new trains being fully introduced) after which the Flexipass will only cover 'classic' berths.

CS response to my email -

'Thank you for your email with regards to the Flexi Pass increase . I am sorry you are not happy with the price rise. We have held off price rises since May 2018 . We have also taken the decision to hold off launching the Club Flexipass until next year meaning that our most valued guests will continue to pay for Classic (non en-suite) and get Club (en-suite,station lounge access,etc.).'

 

[47271]

CS response to my email -

'Thank you for your email with regards to the Flexi Pass increase . I am sorry you are not happy with the price rise. We have held off price rises since May 2018 . We have also taken the decision to hold off launching the Club Flexipass until next year meaning that our most valued guests will continue to pay for Classic (non en-suite) and get Club (en-suite,station lounge access,etc.).'

Price rises are the least of my worries. It's the appalling b*****k rattling mk5 ride that's finished me with the new sleeper.

Let me know if they sort out the suspension and I might be back.

 

[swapmeetpete]

Price rises are the least of my worries. It's the appalling b*****k rattling mk5 ride that's finished me with the new sleeper.

Let me know if they sort out the suspension and I might be back.

Seconded.

 

[MrEd]

Price rises are the least of my worries. It's the appalling b*****k rattling mk5 ride that's finished me with the new sleeper.

Let me know if they sort out the suspension and I might be back.

The ride is appalling if you’re in a berth over the wheels (it honestly feels more like riding in a knackered Mk1 than a brand new modern carriage) but is decent (I find, anyway) if you’re in a berth in the middle of the carriage. I’m booked in coach F berth 5 going to Spean Bridge on Wednesday 22nd, I’m just crossing my fingers that I don’t get moved to a berth over the bogie (this happened to me back in November and the ride quality was atrocious).

 

[47271]

The ride is appalling if you’re in a berth over the wheels (it honestly feels more like riding in a knackered Mk1 than a brand new modern carriage) but is decent (I find, anyway) if you’re in a berth in the middle of the carriage. I’m booked in coach F berth 5 going to Spean Bridge on Wednesday 22nd, I’m just crossing my fingers that I don’t get moved to a berth over the bogie (this happened to me back in November and the ride quality was atrocious).

On the mk3s it did matter if you were over the bogies, but the inadequacy of the mk5s is so bad over all but the straightest most perfect plain track that the relentless vertical rattling runs through you regardless.

I travelled on an SWR 707 shortly after using the sleeper the other day. The Desiro was silent and smooth throughout, even with a wide open corridor connection. The mk5s are absolutely dire by comparison, there's no other word for it. I'm no engineer, but unless they can do something about the suspension then they need to replace the bogies on these trains, they're totally unfit for the job.

 

[JModulo]

1Y11 failed at Ardlui. Fuel leak on 73967.

 

[Far north 37]

73970 spotted on a low loader heading south from mossend to brush i assume.

 

[John Bishop]

Looks like bus from FW for sleeper passengers tonight.

 

[JohnMcL7]

73970 spotted on a low loader heading south from mossend to brush i assume.

Ouch, which 73's are running at the moment?

 

[Far north 37]

Ouch, which 73's are running at the moment?

73966 and 971 doing the fort william 73969 on the aberdeen and 66733 and 73968 on the inverness tommorow morning.