Caledonian Sleeper

[TimboM]

Are the lights dimmed in the seated coach?

I've used the Mk2 seated coach and only got a couple of hours sleep at the most, at least it was relatively dark and the seats were large and comfortable, the new seated coach doesn't look like it was actually designed with sleeping in mind...

Not dimmed due to Health and Safety requirements (apparently). Eye-masks are provided.

 

[leightonbd]

I had my first ride on the new stock last week, a Classic room (the only one available). I hadn’t appreciated that Classic=Standard (and Club=First), meaning no lounge access for a shower. Since I was travelling home (northbound) I was fairly relaxed about that, but less so when I checked in and was told there was no water in my cabin (not the whole coach, just my cabin). Try having an all over wash in the toilet at the end of the corridor ...

I was told I’d get 50% back as recompense. I will take that (though CS haven’t acknowledged my request yet), but it would have been no compensation to me had I been travelling to work, and forced to arrive unwashed.

On the upside: boarded on time (2230), arrived on time, smooth ride, comfortable bed, temperature just right. Clever little storage nooks to prop your iPad etc while charging. The room does feel small, though (maybe because both beds are down, which I’m not used to). I think I’d pay more for the Club in future.

 

[Essexman]

Arrived on time in Edinburgh. Only problem was locomotive immediately detached so no power for shower or to flush toilet. Staff said it is normal as they are trying to minimise time in platform but it would be helpful if they told passengers. She said it also causes problems in kitchen as they can’t wash up.

 

[BRX]

I thought the carriages had batteries

 

[Essexman]

I thought the carriages had batteries

They do but I assume only enough to power lights as aircon goes off as soon as loco is detached and toilet wouldn’t flush.

 

[Scotrail84]

Arrived on time in Edinburgh. Only problem was locomotive immediately detached so no power for shower or to flush toilet. Staff said it is normal as they are trying to minimise time in platform but it would be helpful if they told passengers. She said it also causes problems in kitchen as they can’t wash up.

Why wait until you've arrived at Edinburgh to have a shower? You'd be as well getting a free shower token and using the station showers.

 

[Essexman]

Why wait until you've arrived at Edinburgh to have a shower? You'd be as well getting a free shower token and using the station showers.

Thought it was easier to use facility on train and not to have to get dressed twice but did use station shower in the end, although paid £5 as didn’t know I could get a token.

 

[tigerroar]

I'm on the lowlander tonight, I did the old stock to Inverness in June and it was plain sailing, hopefully it'll be the same again tonight with none of the regular excuses or horror stories!

 

[John Bishop]

Up Highlander made it into Euston 74L this morning, although Lowlander made it in 23E.

 

[Kite159]

Are the lights dimmed in the seated coach?

I've used the Mk2 seated coach and only got a couple of hours sleep at the most, at least it was relatively dark and the seats were large and comfortable, the new seated coach doesn't look like it was actually designed with sleeping in mind...

The lights above the windows were turned off, but the lights on the ceiling were left on.

 

[Parham Wood]

Not dimmed due to Health and Safety requirements (apparently). Eye-masks are provided.

Airlines seem to manage to dim the lights in the cabin at night but they do bring them up when serving food / drinks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Airlines seem to manage to dim the lights in the cabin at night but they do bring them up when serving food / drinks.

I suspect there's a bit of an issue with railway regs not being written with sleepers entirely in mind given that they are a tiny part of the operation.

 

[xc170]

Not dimmed due to Health and Safety requirements (apparently). Eye-masks are provided.

Recipe for a great nights sleep then I see...

 

[hkstudent]

I suspect there's a bit of an issue with railway regs not being written with sleepers entirely in mind given that they are a tiny part of the operation.

2 Caledonia Sleepers and 1 GWR Night Riviera, too tiny for asking manpower to write a specific regulation for this.
Is it possible to bypass the light requirement by compartmenting the seats as well?

 

[Mogz]

Compartmenting the seats?

Can’t be done.

That would set a precedent.

Passengers might start asking to have compartment seating on day trains, and before you know it they would also want comfortable sprung seats, restaurant cars and guards’ vans for large quantities of luggage.

Where would it all end??

 

[BRX]

What, in fact, are the "railway regs" that apply to this sort of thing?

 

[jellybaby]

The railway lighting regulations do have specific, lower, levels for sleeper cars.

 

[BRX]

But what are the "railway lighting regulations" - who are they written by, who assesses whether they are complied with? Are they UK specific, or is there a combination of UK and European/international rules that need to be complied with?

 

[greatkingrat]

If you have a spare £176, you can buy a copy of the standards and find out!

https://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030353442

 

[BRX]

If you have a spare £176, you can buy a copy of the standards and find out!

https://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030353442

Ok, so there's a BS / EN standard, but that's not quite the same as a regulation, as I understand it.

I'm familiar with building regulations, and building regulations are law in as much as if you are a building owner and carry out building work, it must comply with those regulations. The building regulations quite often refer to BS and EN standards, but generally only as one route, not the only one, to meeting the requirements of the building regulations.

What I'm getting at, is, when someone says that the lights can't be turned down because of "railway regulations", is it actually true that there's no way to do it, or does it just mean that someone making a decision has taken the easiest route out, when actually whatever legislation applies isn't that prescriptive? Because this does happen quite a lot. Maybe EN 13272 has some recommended standards for lighting in various scenarios, but does it mean that these are absolutely what you have to comply with, or are they what you comply with if you can't be bothered putting a bit more thought into the process?

 

[GLC]

This is an absolute guess, but I could believe that the standard/regulation/whatever states that all routes to emergency exits much be clearly visible at all times. By dimming the lights someone could argue that you’ve made the routes less visible than they could otherwise be. In a similar vein to making so many employees across various industries wear PPE. Better safe than sorry for an employer to over impose its use, than under impose. Better to have the carriage too bright then too dark.

 

[TimboM]

This is an absolute guess, but I could believe that the standard/regulation/whatever states that all routes to emergency exits much be clearly visible at all times. By dimming the lights someone could argue that you’ve made the routes less visible than they could otherwise be. In a similar vein to making so many employees across various industries wear PPE. Better safe than sorry for an employer to over impose its use, than under impose. Better to have the carriage too bright then too dark.

I believe the “H&S” considerations are more to do with the staff/crew being able to see where they’re going and not trip over bags or people than emergency exits etc.

 

[BRX]

Could they use that technology that cinema stewards have - the torch?

 

[Crepello]

I'm on the lowlander tonight, I did the old stock to Inverness in June and it was plain sailing, hopefully it'll be the same again tonight with none of the regular excuses or horror stories!

I did likewise in June - hope your trip's going well tonight and that you'll keep us posted.

Compartmenting... sprung seats... restaurant cars.... guards’ vans... Where would it all end??

Possibly with a riot - First Class comes closest to what you describe, yet witness the vociferous calls for its abolition! The largest market segment demands the lowest possible fares, thus maximum seating density and minimal amenity costs.

 

[Essexman]

Came back from Aberdeen last night. Excellent journey until we sat outside Euston for 40 minutes due to points failure but I wasn’t in a hurry and will be glad to claim delay repay.

CS bacon rolls are excellent. Far better than the limp one I had on scotrail HST yesterday.

 

[mark-h]

This is an absolute guess, but I could believe that the standard/regulation/whatever states that all routes to emergency exits much be clearly visible at all times. By dimming the lights someone could argue that you’ve made the routes less visible than they could otherwise be.

Dimming some lights could make the emergency exits easier to find as their signs would stand out more. Seat mounted down lighters would make the gangways visible and safe without disturbing those who are sleeping.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Possibly with a riot - First Class comes closest to what you describe, yet witness the vociferous calls for its abolition! The largest market segment demands the lowest possible fares, thus maximum seating density and minimal amenity costs.

The seated coach is First Class. It's basically identical to First Class in a Class 800.

If they wanted to cram people in they could have done 2+2 like GWR did.

 

[Ianno87]

Came back from Aberdeen last night. Excellent journey until we sat outside Euston for 40 minutes due to points failure but I wasn’t in a hurry and will be glad to claim delay repay.

CS bacon rolls are excellent. Far better than the limp one I had on scotrail HST yesterday.

Agree on the bacon rolls

 

[TimboM]

92033 with five Mk3 sleepers on their way to Carnforth tonight (5Z43).

 

[John Bishop]

92033 with five Mk3 sleepers on their way to Carnforth tonight (5Z43).

For WCRC?