Caledonian Sleeper

[31160]

When does the MK2/3 sets have to go by? I assume they cant work beyond December anyway

 

[alangla]

Front page of today’s Scotsman - Cleaning firm replaced after “dirty cabins” sleeper row - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotl...s/scotland&link_location=live-reporting-story

 

[John R]

Somewhat ironic that a company that normally provides outsourced services such as cleaning in this case has outsourced them to another company. And surely it’s not that difficult to check the state of the train before it leaves the depot? A fairly basic thing to do and given the stories of the state of the cabins it would only have taken a cursory glance to reject the work. I’m afraid it says a lot for Serco’s approach to “customer experience”.

 

[Darandio]

Front page of today’s Scotsman - Cleaning firm replaced after “dirty cabins” sleeper row - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotl...s/scotland&link_location=live-reporting-story

Link to the actual article.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...rm-loses-contract-over-dirty-cabins-1-4998704

A cleaning firm which sparked passenger complaints about dirty cabins on the new Caledonian Sleeper is to lose the contract, The Scotsman has learned.

It follows train operator Serco apologising for repeated failures after travellers highlighted “filthy” and litter-strewn rooms aboard the £150 million fleet.

It is understood that Leadec, which cleans the carriages on behalf of train maintenance firm Alstom, will be replaced by Servest.

Sources said staff were not properly supervised to ensure cabins were left clean and tidy on the trains, which were introduced on the Glasgow and Edinburgh to London routes in April.

The carriages, which feature cabins with ensuite showers and toilets, are due to enter service on the remaining routes between Aberdeen, Fort William, Inverness and London by next month.

Serco admitted “standards we set for room presentation were not met” after The Scotsman revealed the problem last month.

Fergus McCallum, who travels on the sleeper weekly, said he had found berths in a “disgusting” state on two journeys within days of each other.

The pharmaceuticals consultant from Pitlochry said the room was “filthy, bins not emptied, hair on the toilet bowl, toilet roll pieces on the floor... used ear plugs on the bed, children’s sweet wrappers and jewellery, and, as every time, hair on the pillows and beds.

“They are absolutely not cleaning the beds between customers – it’s filthy.”

He welcomed the action taken to improve things.

Mr McCallum said: “I think it’s good Serco is facing up to the situation and is taking robust steps to manage the problem. I spoke to the customer experience manager last week and he genuinely seemed to listen.

“I told him my honest opinion as someone who uses the service every week that for the last few months they have been simply straightening the bedclothes and not changing them.

“I told him I travel with a sleeping bag so I don’t have to touch the sheets.

“He seemed genuinely shocked and I believe he intended to fix this situation.”

An Alstom spokesman said; “Alstom is proud of the maintenance work we do to keep the Caledonian Sleeper running but we are always looking to improve the service we deliver for our customers.

“We recognise there have been some issues recently, and as part of our ongoing efforts to improve services I can confirm we are looking at options for better cleaning of these specific trains in the future.”

Ryan Flaherty, Serco managing director of the Caledonian Sleeper, said: “Bringing our new trains into service has been very complex and challenging and we have been working closely with all our partners to resolve the issues we have faced.”

Serco has also suffered technical problems with the trains which have led to breakdowns in the middle of the night.

A London-Edinburgh service had to be halted with an emergency brake after running through Waverley Station.

 

[John R]

Ryan Flaherty, Serco managing director of the Caledonian Sleeper, said: “Bringing our new trains into service has been very complex and challenging and we have been working closely with all our partners to resolve the issues we have faced.”

Really? Which bit of cleaning is "complex and challenging"?

 

[mcmad]

And since the complainant is from Pitlochry is unlikely to be on the mk5 stock.

 

[hwl]

Ryan Flaherty, Serco managing director of the Caledonian Sleeper, said: “Bringing our new trains into service has been very complex and challenging and we have been working closely with all our partners to resolve the issues we have faced.”

Really? Which bit of cleaning is "complex and challenging"?

When the trains turn up at the cleaning location several hours or don't turn up at all, it could be a bit difficult or there are a large team of fitters try to sort issues so you can't get to certain rooms/areas.

If the contract is based on having X staff for Y hours but the time available is typically Y-3 it isn't going to work.

If it has all gone wrong the previous night the onboard staff may well have been busy on on other matters so slightly more cleaning to do.

 

[33Hz]

Makes the Tunnock's tea cake wrapper I had on the floor of my trip on the new stock look positively delightful...

 

[alangla]

Really? Which bit of cleaning is "complex and challenging"?

Getting your subcontractor’s subcontractor to actually do it? Given the mention of Alstom, does the same cleaning contractor & staff also clean Virgin stock at Wembley & Polmadie? Who does Inverness/Aberdeen/Fort William and are the same problems present there? Assume ScotRail/LNER/WCRC respectively, but does anyone know?

 

[LowLevel]

Somewhat ironic that a company that normally provides outsourced services such as cleaning in this case has outsourced them to another company. And surely it’s not that difficult to check the state of the train before it leaves the depot? A fairly basic thing to do and given the stories of the state of the cabins it would only have taken a cursory glance to reject the work. I’m afraid it says a lot for Serco’s approach to “customer experience”.

They'll be outsourced because otherwise if they work for Serco as franchise employees they'll have to be given nasty inconveniences like access to the railway pension scheme, decent wages and so on. Using a contractor allows them to get around such niceties.

 

[47271]

From what I've heard the problem has been particularly bad in Inverness, which squares with the guy from Pitlochry (who I don't know at all) kicking off about it.

My contacts don't recognise the allegation that beds weren't getting changed, they laughed at the hysteria over the sleeping bag, but admit that they've maybe just been lucky. But they say all of the rest that he describes was only too familiar.

Mind you, the mk3 interiors are so dilapidated now it's impossible to tell whether they're clean or not.

 

[hwl]

Makes the Tunnock's tea cake wrapper I had on the floor of my trip on the new stock look positively delightful...

Every guest should hide a dated Tunnocks wrapper in the room to enable independent QC to be done on the cleaning regimes.

 

[JModulo]

Getting your subcontractor’s subcontractor to actually do it? Given the mention of Alstom, does the same cleaning contractor & staff also clean Virgin stock at Wembley & Polmadie? Who does Inverness/Aberdeen/Fort William and are the same problems present there? Assume ScotRail/LNER/WCRC respectively, but does anyone know?

Aberdeen - LNER
Inverness - Scotrail
Fort William - Scotrail

 

[Crepello]

They'll be outsourced because otherwise if they work for Serco as franchise employees they'll have to be given nasty inconveniences like access to the railway pension scheme, decent wages and so on. Using a contractor allows them to get around such niceties.

Cleaning one (short) trainset per day is nowhere near a full-time job for a crew - and CS are in the business of transporting passengers, not housekeeping. Seems an odd notion that this might be done in-house, when better value is gained by using a contractor - who clearly pays the going rate, otherwise they wouldn't have any workers.

Again, people voice frustrations about high fares, but propose inefficiencies that would push them ever higher...

 

[alangla]

I would have thought Alstom might have done it in-house though. There’s enough VT stock going through Wembley and Polmadie every day to keep several crews busy

 

[SuspectUsual]

Unless the law has changed significantly in the few years since I last had to deal with it, it’s quite probable that the actual cleaners would transfer under TUPE to the new cleaning company.

 

[JonathanH]

When does the MK2/3 sets have to go by? I assume they cant work beyond December anyway

I suspect that they can provided the stewards have sole responsibility for the doors.

 

[route:oxford]

And since the complainant is from Pitlochry is unlikely to be on the mk5 stock.

A reasonable assumption, but may not be accurate.

People blend their travel so living in Pitlochry might not mean they travel from Pitlochry.

My old boss lived in Perth and took the sleeper to London on a Sunday night and either took the 18:00 or 18:30 train or flew back on a Friday night. But he left his car in Edinburgh on a Sunday night and picked it up again on a Friday night as he'd been caught out with missed connections on too many occasions.

I'm not sure how it happened but every Friday night he managed to leave his car park ticket in the London Office and had to press the "lost ticket" button on the payment machine and was forced to pay for 24 hours parking rather than 5+ days parking...

 

[31160]

I suspect that they can provided the stewards have sole responsibility for the doors.

Well as this is Serco we're talking about the chance they will employ someone just for doors at stations is nill, I'm sure the people employed as is have other things to do, the general rundown nature of the MK3's they must be replaced as soon as with the new stock which at least should be cleaner to start will, this whole project has a whiff of cheese about someone needs to get a grip of things, the very future of the service depends on it

 

[al78]

Seems an odd notion that this might be done in-house, when better value is gained by using a contractor - who clearly pays the going rate, otherwise they wouldn't have any workers.

Not true if the workers are of the less fortunate in society who are desperate for work, so take what is available no matter how badly paid or crappy. Otherwise known as exploitation, bringing prices down by externalising the costs on those who don't have the ability to retaliate.

 

[14xxDave]

Not true if the workers are of the less fortunate in society who are desperate for work, so take what is available no matter how badly paid or crappy. Otherwise known as exploitation, bringing prices down by externalising the costs on those who don't have the ability to retaliate.

Hmm I do agree. Crapello seems to be living in a cloud cuckoo land that doesn't exist out here in the real world. But this is getting off topic.
I do think that the sleeper experience needs to be re-thought by the management and some well experienced input interjected.

 

[trebor79]

The ‘level of moaning on here’ is nothing compared to many Tripadvisor reviews. Latest one:

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowU...iam_Lochaber_Scottish_Highlands_Scotland.html

Clearly, for the prices charged, (and on what they are led to believe by the advertising), people are expecting rather more than a caravan/motor home experience.

Ah yes I would have to agree anyone believing the marketing bumpf is going to be disappointed. Fortunately I ignore such bumpf, know it's impossible to provide what they purport to on a moving train (unless paying thousands for the Orient Express I suppose) and expected more or less what I got.
Really if they toned down all of the "experience of a nighttime" and hotel on wheels nonsense they'd do themselves a massive favour.

 

[MrEd]

Ah yes I would have to agree anyone believing the marketing bumpf is going to be disappointed. Fortunately I ignore such bumpf, know it's impossible to provide what they purport to on a moving train (unless paying thousands for the Orient Express I suppose) and expected more or less what I got.
Really if they times down all of the "experience of a nighttime" and hotel on wheels nonsense they'd do themselves a massive favour.

I think that this is a very fair point. Much of the disappointment among passengers results from the excessively high expectations brought about by the marketing hype. If CS could just focus on the idea that the CS is a night train offering a convenient, efficient and time-saving means of travelling between London and Scotland overnight, and focus on delivering this expectation consistently, they would save themselves a lot of trouble and gain much greater customer satisfaction. I have always thought that the ‘hotel-on-wheels’ marketing strategy is crackers (not least because it is simply undeliverable on a service train on the national rail network). Yes the knackered Mk3s need replaced, but a different marketing strategy is needed for the Mk5s, stressing convenience and efficiency rather than gimmicks/undeliverable expectations.

 

[MrEd]

I suspect that they can provided the stewards have sole responsibility for the doors.

The PRM deadline is 31st December, meaning that in an ideal world the CS Mk2s/Mk3s need withdrawn by then at the latest. Judging by the condition of the Mk2s and Mk3s, I am fairly sure that CS will want rid of them well before then, and are making an effort to bring in Mk5s as soon as possible (I have a feeling that we will see Mk5s on the Highlander in October). In fact we could see Mk5s on the Highlander on about 23rd September if indications given by the Inverness Sleeper crew are accurate.

 

[FQTV]

Credit where it’s due.

I’ve had a (late but) comprehensive response to my communication with Caledonian Sleeper customer services about by recent experience.

The attention to the specific points that I raised was impressive, I think, and their proposed remedy not without cost.

The original experience, as I reported, was rubbish, but my confidence in them is significantly improved by the receipt of some ‘good old fashioned customer service.’

 

[Meerkat]

I think that this is a very fair point. Much of the disappointment among passengers results from the excessively high expectations brought about by the marketing hype. If CS could just focus on the idea that the CS is a night train offering a convenient, efficient and time-saving means of travelling between London and Scotland overnight, and focus on delivering this expectation consistently, they would save themselves a lot of trouble and gain much greater customer satisfaction. I have always thought that the ‘hotel-on-wheels’ marketing strategy is crackers (not least because it is simply undeliverable on a service train on the national rail network). Yes the knackered Mk3s need replaced, but a different marketing strategy is needed for the Mk5s, stressing convenience and efficiency rather than gimmicks/undeliverable expectations.

The ‘convenient night train’ is losing bucketloads of money. Fares needed to go up so they have to aim for a pricier market segment. Cheap overnight trains fall apart on safety and modern expectations for personal safety. Remember it only really still exists at all because of political games between UKG and the Scottish Government.

 

[Caleb2010]

But the travelling public are the ones paying through the nose for this service- caught up in these political games between governments. Quite frankly, they shouldn’t be!

Regular users are paying the price for the games being played and policies being made and it’s about time these regular passengers are factored into the decision making part of the whole enterprise.

 

[hwl]

The PRM deadline is 31st December, meaning that in an ideal world the CS Mk2s/Mk3s need withdrawn by then at the latest. Judging by the condition of the Mk2s and Mk3s, I am fairly sure that CS will want rid of them well before then, and are making an effort to bring in Mk5s as soon as possible (I have a feeling that we will see Mk5s on the Highlander in October). In fact we could see Mk5s on the Highlander on about 23rd September if indications given by the Inverness Sleeper crew are accurate.

The new SoS has told everyone to be realistic and ask for dergogations...

 

[MrEd]

The new SoS has told everyone to be realistic and ask for dergogations...

That may well be the case, but I rather hope that the Mk2s/Mk3s are gone from the Highlander on/by 31st December simply because of their condition, and the fact that Mk2 reliability is seriously flagging. I’ve not heard that much about issues with Mk5s on the Lowlander on here recently compared with three months ago (and never use the Lowlander so have no personal experience), so I presume the Mk5s are starting to settle down now?

 

[Chrism20]

The new SoS has told everyone to be realistic and ask for dergogations...

Will the SOS have any say on it given the franchise is dealt with by Holyrood rather than Westminster?

Or will it have to pass both considering it crosses the border?