Caledonian Sleeper to serve Birmingham and Manchester

[Bartsimho]

Probably as well to make the call at Rugby instead of BHI, then the service can use the Trent Valley route or go via Birmingham.
Down Highland passes at 22:22, the Up at 06:38 so that wouldn't be unreasonable, and there are LNWR connections in either direction (for Coventry & Birmingham and for Northampton & Milton Keynes) about twenty minutes before the evening pickups and twenty minutes after the morning setdowns

Birmingham International is more likely to have a passenger flow at that time with it being an airport rather than housing. Housing I'd expect at 07:00 at the earliest.

 

[JonathanH]

Birmingham International is more likely to have a passenger flow at that time with it being an airport rather than housing. Housing I'd expect at 07:00 at the earliest.

Is there really a lot of demand for people living north of the central belt to take flights from Birmingham Airport?

It does beg the question as to what the Caledonian Sleeper is for, and what the flows are to the West Midlands that need to be catered for in a manner that isn't possible with a stop at Crewe.

 

[Bartsimho]

Is there really a lot of demand for people living north of the central belt to take flights from Birmingham Airport?

It does beg the question as to what the Caledonian Sleeper is for, and what the flows are to the West Midlands that need to be catered for in a manner that isn't possible with a stop at Crewe.

Well it could cater for the late London-West Midlands passenger flow as well as the early Birmingham Airport-London flow which there is a bit of.

 

[JonathanH]

Well it could cater for the late London-West Midlands passenger flow as well as the early Birmingham Airport-London flow which there is a bit of.

That most definitely is not the purpose of the sleeper. The last thing Anglo-Scottish travellers wanting to sleep want is short distance passengers between London and Birmingham Airport on their train.

Both of those flows are catered for by Avanti services in any case at the times the sleeper runs. The last train from Euston to Birmingham International is at 2330, and the first train from Birmingham International to Euston is at 0541.

 

[Falcon1200]

I would have to ask, what would be the purpose of the Sleepers calling at Birmingham and Manchester? To make life easier for people who otherwise have to go to say Crewe to use the trains, or to attract additional custom? In which latter case, do the trains regularly have spare capacity to accommodate them?

 

[The Planner]

I would have to ask, what would be the purpose of the Sleepers calling at Birmingham and Manchester? To make life easier for people who otherwise have to go to say Crewe to use the trains, or to attract additional custom? In which latter case, do the trains regularly have spare capacity to accommodate them?

Commercial decision. Clearly it was felt that a few quid could be made.

 

[JonathanH]

Given the times north of the Central Belt are fairly much fixed, wouldn't diverting the Highland Sleeper via Birmingham International and incurring a 30 minute time penalty put the sleeper in the way of the Avanti services. The beauty of the 2115 evening departure and 0749 morning arrival is that they are just outside the time when Avanti's service is intensive.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Well it could cater for the late London-West Midlands passenger flow as well as the early Birmingham Airport-London flow which there is a bit of.

On a train with very limited seating accommodation - this hypothetical West Mids stop would pe pick up only northbound, set down only southbound just like Crewe, Preston etc.

 

[30907]

Probably as well to make the call at Rugby instead of BHI, then the service can use the Trent Valley route or go via Birmingham.
Down Highland passes at 22:22, the Up at 06:38 so that wouldn't be unreasonable, and there are LNWR connections in either direction (for Coventry & Birmingham and for Northampton & Milton Keynes) about twenty minutes before the evening pickups and twenty minutes after the morning setdowns

That makes good operational sense, at least southbound. BHI Northbound should be OK at 2245ish for engineering works diversions, and would save having to put in a sleeper reception facility at Rugby. You might decide to put on a dedicated executive midi coach from Rugby in the morning instead of offering complimentary travel on LNR.

 

[The Planner]

That makes good operational sense, at least southbound. BHI Northbound should be OK at 2245ish for engineering works diversions, and would save having to put in a sleeper reception facility at Rugby. You might decide to put on a dedicated executive midi coach from Rugby in the morning instead of offering complimentary travel on LNR.

Operationally it might, but this was a purely commercial decision to stop at International.

 

[Bald Rick]

I would have to ask, what would be the purpose of the Sleepers calling at Birmingham and Manchester? To make life easier for people who otherwise have to go to say Crewe to use the trains, or to attract additional custom? In which latter case, do the trains regularly have spare capacity to accommodate them?

Both, AIUI.

 

[Kingston Dan]

How did you work that one out?

To be honest I'd forgotten about Leeds. So was going on local authority areas. But you're right it's a can of worms - Leeds is over bounded. Wetherby which is 20 minutes from me and a small town is technically part of Leeds when Rutherglen a large industrial Glasgow suburb is not technically part of Glasgow. Glasgow used to have 1m+ like Brum but slum clearance distributed much of its population to various west coast towns and has seen it's geographical boundaries reduced while other cities have seen theirs expanded.

But I accept it's a complete can of worms as you get into urban/areas/city regions/travel to work areas etc and none of them match.