Caledonian Sleeper Non Standard WCML routings

[NightatLaira]

East Coast routings of the CL get a lot of coverage here - but I was wondering if anyone could shed any light on the non-standard routings of the CL when on its ordinary WCML route.

For instance: Trent Valley or Bescot?

I've been on the lowland sleeper about 6 or 7 times and have been through Coventry-Stechford-Bescot-Stafford at least 3 times, on one memorable occasion we even went via Aston and Wolverhampton!

Whenever I've done the Highland Sleeper it's always gone through the Trent Valley - but has a Highland ever done B'ham instead?

Are these routes planned at all or just made up on the night by the signallers in question?

2. Northampton & Daventry? Does that ever happen?

3. Glasgow Central Low Level (for the deerstalker) - I've been through here at least once on a southbound working, but not on a northbound.

4. Has the CL ever been routed from Crewe through to Manchester instead of Warrington BQ?

 

[Chester025]

4. Has the CL ever been routed from Crewe through to Manchester instead of Warrington BQ?

Yes, back in November/Decmeber 2007 60s were booked to drag the sleepers from Crewe - Preston via Man Pic (using 67s for ETS). Although a 60 only worked it once or twice 67s did it quite a few times, as well as: http://carlsgallery.fotopic.net/p46902816.html

 

[First class]

Has been routed through Manchester, yes.

It also goes through Northampton on occassion and I've been on a southbound service through Birmingham.

I've also been via the ECML.

I believe it can be booked via any diversion route possible, whether it be ECML, Cumbrian Coast, Settle and Carlisle...

If I remember correctly, during the Grayrigg incident, once a Northbound went via Whitehaven...???

 

[route101]

I always think that the Fort William sleeper should call at Glasgow Queen st low level . Saves reversing at the High level.

 

[me123]

I always think that the Fort William sleeper should call at Glasgow Queen st low level . Saves reversing at the High level.

It doesn't reverse at Queen Street High Level!

It goes from Westerton, to Ashfield, and then goes from Cowlairs North Jn to Cowlairs East Jn and onto Edinburgh via Falkirk. In the other direction, it goes via Cumbernauld. So Falkirk G-Cumbernauld-Springburn-Cowlairs West Jn-Westerton

(I may have this the wrong way around...)

A shuttle service runs from Queen Street High Level to connect onto the Deerstalker at Westerton. Potentially, the train could go via Airdrie and Bathgate in the near future, so could call at Queen Street Low Level and it wouldn't need the connecting train. That said, it's possible at the moment (WHL-Partick-QSLL-Bellgrove-Springburn-Cowlairs West-Edinburgh via Falkirk), so perhaps there's no will to stop the train in Glasgow.

 

[rail-britain]

When I worked on InterCity it was common to be diverted, as the timings allowed for this

Sunday night southbound, would be from Stafford to Birmingham International (sorry don't know the exact route, but those were the stations I saw every Monday morning)

Saturday nights were a nightmare
Once we left Carlisle, and I saw Settle, Manchester Picadilly, Stoke-On-Trent, and then same as above
The electric loco was taken off at Carlisle, replaced by a Class 47, and another electric loco was put back on at Rugby
The following week almost the same, but we went as far as Preston, but this time the electric loco stayed with the train (panto down)

However, since privitisation most diversions are pre-planned
Another diversion a few years ago was when Edinburgh was closed, with the Highland sleepers merging/splitting just north of Motherwell
The previous year saw pairs of Class 67s from Glasgow and Edinburgh

 

[route101]

i meant to say the sleeper used to call at queen st . There will be a sleeper diversion via bathgate at some point.

 

[rail-britain]

There will be a sleeper diversion via bathgate at some point

Yes, the Fort William is high likely to use this route when the central belt electrification starts next year

 

[route101]

Wonder if it would be good idea to get the sleeper to call at Airdrie ,Livingston and Bathgate . If the Union line in Glasgow gets electrified we could see Edinburgh to Ayr trains.

 

[rail-britain]

Wonder if it would be good idea to get the sleeper to call at Airdrie ,Livingston and Bathgate . If the Union line in Glasgow gets electrified we could see Edinburgh to Ayr trains.

There are no sleepers via Airdrie, only possible during diversions

There are no plans to electrify the Union Line

 

[route101]

There are no sleepers via Airdrie, only possible during diversions

There are no plans to electrify the Union Line

I was just saying IF they were

 

[rail-britain]

I was just saying IF they were

Even IF the Fort William sleeper is rerouted this way, sadly it will not call at any stations between Edinburgh and Westerton

 

[me123]

Wonder if it would be good idea to get the sleeper to call at Airdrie ,Livingston and Bathgate . If the Union line in Glasgow gets electrified we could see Edinburgh to Ayr trains.

The problem is that Airdrie, Livingston and Bathgate are important, busy towns in the Central Belt. There would probably be a fair demand for these services. The Deerstalker has two sleeper carriages from Euston (with two extra cars added at Edinburgh). The demand would be too big for the relatively small train, and it's busy enough as it is. Besides, the Lowland sleeper adequately serves Edinburgh (and, by extension, Bathgate and Livingston) as it is. And Airdrie and Coatbridge are well served by the Glasgow Side (and soon, also, by the Edinburgh side when A-B is finished). Let's face it; there's no need for this run.

The only thing I could see working is a stop at Queen Street Low Level to allow passengers to travel from Glasgow-Fort William (and vice versa) but not to serve Glasgow-London passengers; a move that would remove the rather pointless GQSHL-Westerton run in the morning and late evening and potentially save some money. Even then, I don't know if it's feasible.

 

[4SRKT]

The problem is that Airdrie, Livingston and Bathgate are important, busy towns in the Central Belt. There would probably be a fair demand for these services. The Deerstalker has two sleeper carriages from Euston (with two extra cars added at Edinburgh). The demand would be too big for the relatively small train, and it's busy enough as it is. Besides, the Lowland sleeper adequately serves Edinburgh (and, by extension, Bathgate and Livingston) as it is. And Airdrie and Coatbridge are well served by the Glasgow Side (and soon, also, by the Edinburgh side when A-B is finished). Let's face it; there's no need for this run.

The only thing I could see working is a stop at Queen Street Low Level to allow passengers to travel from Glasgow-Fort William (and vice versa) but not to serve Glasgow-London passengers; a move that would remove the rather pointless GQSHL-Westerton run in the morning and late evening and potentially save some money. Even then, I don't know if it's feasible.

Is the morning Queen St > Westerton working actually the ECS to form the morning Arrochar & Tarbet > Queen St short working? If so, then it's not really pointless, although it would be more sensible to make the connection station Dalmuir, and replace the current Westerton stop with a stop at Dumbarton Central, bringing the sleeper's stopping pattern into line with the rest of the West Highland line services, and giving that town a service to/from Euston. In the evening, surely it must be possible to retime a late EMU to either Queen St or Central LL from Dalmuir to connect with the sleeper, again allowing the removal of the Westerton stop and the DMU connection to Queen St HL.

 

[rail-britain]

a move that would remove the rather pointless GQSHL-Westerton run in the morning and late evening and potentially save some money

There are loads of such "pointless" journeys
I can't find any Westerton services, but there are two to/from Anniesland
This is due to the service level requirement Mon - Fri 06:23 to 23:54

Even the new A2B isn't immune, it would appear there are two ECS workings from Bathgate to Edinburgh in the morning, rather than commence from Livingston North

 

[flymo]

I can't find any Westerton services

There is a service from Glasgow QS at 0530 to Westerton arr 0543. There is also an 0005 service from Westerton - Glasgow QS arr 0020.

 

[rail-britain]

There is a service from Glasgow QS at 0530 to Westerton arr 0543. There is also an 0005 service from Westerton - Glasgow QS arr 0020

Are you sure about those?
These services haven't run to Westerton since 2009

2Y73 05:30 Glasgow QS - Anniesland
2Y72 00:16 Anniesland - Glasgow QS

 

[4SRKT]

Are you sure about those?
These services haven't run to Westerton since 2009

2Y73 05:30 Glasgow QS - Anniesland
2Y72 00:16 Anniesland - Glasgow QS

I went on the 05:30 last Tuesday, so yes, he is sure about them. The 156 headed off from Westerton towards Dalmuir and didn't come back, so I assume it's the ECS for the morning Arrochar & Tarbet > Queen St.