Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Scotrail84]

Appears there were some challenges north of Edinburgh on the Up Highlander last night - the Inverness lost 47 mins between Winchburgh Jnc and Newbridge Jnc and the Fort William lost time from Crianlarich onwards ultimately arriving 57 Late at Waverley.

The combined train left Edinburgh 71 Late although 92018 pulled all but 3 minutes of that back by Euston (including making up 30 minutes alone down Beattock bank ).

Thats because on a Sunday night it is timed to accommodate single line working between abington and beattock.

 

[TimboM]

Looks like 1B01 was delayed approaching Crianlarich due to 1Y48 developing an engine defect with a LOP after departing Crianlarich ahead of it. 1B01 then had problems with 73970 itself losing further time.

1M16 was held at Newbridge to run behind 1B01 presumably to keep the correct running order and the same formation.

Thats because on a Sunday night it is timed to accommodate single line working between abington and beattock.

Thanks for the info both.

There was me thinking 92018 had been in Willesden for 3 weeks having rockets fitted

 

[High Dyke]

The more i read through this thread it doesn't inspire me with confidence for an uneventful trip in September on the sleeper to Fort William. I'm sure it will be ok though...

 

[47271]

The more i read through this thread it doesn't inspire me with confidence for an uneventful trip in September on the sleeper to Fort William. I'm sure it will be ok though...

Give or take a percentage point, the service is no more or less reliable than any other in UK. It's just that its every move and blip gets pored over in amazing detail on this forum.

 

[LeylandLen]

Once again I find 2 unusual workings from Lancaster tomorrow 25/7. Is it to gets its own sleeper service? Where does the stock come from ?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C73377/2017/07/25/advanced spends 56 mins at Penrith but non-stop trough Carlisle .. and
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C73376/2017/07/25/advanced.

Answering my own question, maybe the new stock after arriving by sea at nearby Heysham Port? (by road from there to Lancaster)?

 

[bb21]

The more i read through this thread it doesn't inspire me with confidence for an uneventful trip in September on the sleeper to Fort William. I'm sure it will be ok though...

Why would you want a sleeper journey to be uneventful?

I do agree with the poster above that Caley Sleeper really are no worse than other TOCs. PPM for last period was 91.1%, which was better than the likes of Anglia (89.0%), GWR (83.2%) - admittedly affected by a couple of big infrastructure failures, SWT (87.8%) - again, a few big infrastructure defects here, CrossCountry (90.2%), Merseyrail (90.7%), Hull Trains (85.6%), VTWC (85.0%), etc.

That said, their punctuality target seems to be exceptionally high for a long-distance operator with a small number of services at 95.4%, only below that of c2c (96.3%) and Merseyrail (95.6%).

 

[47271]

Why would you want a sleeper journey to be uneventful? [emoji38]

I do agree with the poster above that Caley Sleeper really are no worse than other TOCs. PPM for last period was 91.1%, which was better than the likes of Anglia (89.0%), GWR (83.2%) - admittedly affected by a couple of big infrastructure failures, SWT (87.8%) - again, a few big infrastructure defects here, CrossCountry (90.2%), Merseyrail (90.7%), Hull Trains (85.6%), VTWC (85.0%), etc.

That said, their punctuality target seems to be exceptionally high for a long-distance operator with a small number of services at 95.4%, only below that of c2c (96.3%) and Merseyrail (95.6%).

...and to add to this to my knowledge (a sample of very regular users of the Highlander) nearly all Delay Repay claims made in the past two years have been triggered by Network Rail problems. None of their claims have been traction related, whereas to read this thread you'd think that passengers are suffering at the hands of dodgy locos every night of the week.

That said, because of the very large distances covered by CS services, and the lack of scope for easy substitutions mid journey, delays can balloon spectacularly - just look at the one (not an NR failure on that occasion) initiating this thread two years ago. A wheel flat leading to a five and a half hour delay, and one in which the set had to soldier on through 600 miles or so. Any other operator would have cancelled the train ASAP.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[Mag_seven]

Once again I find 2 unusual workings from Lancaster tomorrow 25/7. Is it to gets its own sleeper service? Where does the stock come from ?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C73377/2017/07/25/advanced spends 56 mins at Penrith but non-stop trough Carlisle .. and
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C73376/2017/07/25/advanced.

Answering my own question, maybe the new stock after arriving by sea at nearby Heysham Port? (by road from there to Lancaster)?

I'm not convinced of that as an explanation - how would you get the new stock off a low loader and onto the track at Lancaster?

 

[TimboM]

TOPS (which can be wrong) is suggesting that both 90047* and 92023 are on 1m11 tonight (or at least were on 5m11 along with 86401).

47749 is showing as the edinburgh portion loco - which tallies with the colas 47 moving from mossend to polmadie earlier this evening at late notice on a VSTP.

To be confirmed it this is actually the case and if so... Why?

[EDIT: *Info from 43096 indicates it's due to issues with 90047 - this was the originally booked loco (hence on TOPS) but 92023 had to take its place last minute (ECS move into Glasgow was almost 2 hours late) and 47749 was then brought in late notice from Mossend for the Edinburgh portion which itself was just over an hour late. The 90 was taken off at Polmadie. 1M11 departed on time and 1C11 left Waverley 7 Late, however all recovered by time it reached Euston (16 Early).]

 

[Scotrail84]

...and to add to this to my knowledge (a sample of very regular users of the Highlander) nearly all Delay Repay claims made in the past two years have been triggered by Network Rail problems. None of their claims have been traction related, whereas to read this thread you'd think that passengers are suffering at the hands of dodgy locos every night of the week.

That said, because of the very large distances covered by CS services, and the lack of scope for easy substitutions mid journey, delays can balloon spectacularly - just look at the one (not an NR failure on that occasion) initiating this thread two years ago. A wheel flat leading to a five and a half hour delay, and one in which the set had to soldier on through 600 miles or so. Any other operator would have cancelled the train ASAP.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

I do find that hard to believe.

 

[47271]

I do find that hard to believe.

I'd try to explain if I knew which part of my longish post you find hard to believe!

 

[Scotrail84]

I'd try to explain if I knew which part of my longish post you find hard to believe!

That would be the bit in bold?

 

[cambsy]

47271 claim the all delay repay on the Caledonian sleepers has been Network Rail fault in last couple years, is wrong, as back in early February I had 67017 go pop and cause me 5 hour delay, even did a post on it back then.

 

[47271]

That would be the bit in bold?

Sorry, I couldn't see that on the screen at the time. It was the end of a long day!

Based on a couple of posts I made on here in autumn 2015, and again in autumn 2016, defending CS reliability versus First's from the point of view of one very regular user. I need to go to work now so don't have time to summarise them, but I'll fish them out later.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

I've just heard a report on Radio 4's Today programme of a 25 mile minute opera performance which took place in the up Aberdeen Sleeper lounge car. Will look out for a link to confirm this.

EDIT: Found it, but by the time I had posted the link and the quote, railuk logged me out and I lost it all. Here we go again:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-40713755

Opera premieres on sleeper train from Aberdeen to London

An opera has had its world premiere on a sleeper train between Aberdeen and London.

Belongings, inspired by items of luggage carried by railway passengers, was performed for the first time on Monday night.

It is the first time an opera has been staged on board a Caledonian Sleeper service.

The piece was performed in the lounge car of the train by cellist Zosia Jagodzinska and tenor Robert Lewis.

Music was by Samual Bordoli and libretto by Bankes-Jones.

The event came as part of a collaboration between soundfestival, based in the north-east of Scotland, and London's Tete a Tete: The Opera Festival.

Bill Bankes-Jones, director of Tete a Tete, said: "Our performances on the sleeper was designed to welcome audiences from two of the countries' most creative cities to sample new music and works."

Fiona Robertson, director of soundfestival, added: "We were delighted to be able to take this initiative forward with special performances on the sleeper.

"We hope hearing this opera will encourage people to come and enjoy more performances both at Tete a Tete and soundfestival."

There will be another chance to experience the opera on the sleeper overnight on 9-10 November.

The piece will also be performed as a pop-up work at King's Cross station throughout the Tete a Tete festival, which runs until 13 August, and in Deeside at soundfestival later in the year

Earlier while looking for this I also found a story about guns being carried on the Sleeper
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-40709374

'Responsible customers' can take licensed firearms on Sleeper'

A boss at the company that operates the Caledonian Sleeper has issued a message that licensed firearms can be transported on that train service.

Rupert Soames tweeted on the matter after the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC) raised concerns about ScotRail's ban on guns.

BASC said the ban threatened Scotland's field sports tourism.

ScotRail's ban, which affects lawfully-owned guns, came after a firearm was left unattended on a train this year.

Mr Soames, chief executive at Serco, tweeted: "Worried about Scotrail Fireams ban? Relax @CalSleeper welcomes responsible customers with licensed firearms. #bestwaytotravelnorth."

The Caledonian Sleeper provides services between London, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness, Aberdeen and Fort William.

Among BASC's concerns was a "negative impact" on the Glorious Twelfth.

Traditionally, the first day of the grouse shooting season is 12 August.

ScotRail said the decision to introduce the ban was made for safety reasons after a licensed firearm was left unattended on one of its trains earlier this year.

 

[InOban]

The opera was a substantial item on Today this morning on R4.

 

[Gonzoiku]

Thanks for the info both.

There was me thinking 92018 had been in Willesden for 3 weeks having rockets fitted

An understandable mistake, TimboM - what was being fitted are the flares in case of breakdown on Rannoch Moor.

GZ

 

[TimboM]

An understandable mistake, TimboM - what was being fitted are the flares in case of breakdown on Rannoch Moor.

GZ

Plus the bi-mode diesel engine to get the 92 up to Rannoch Moor

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Thanks for the info both.

There was me thinking 92018 had been in Willesden for 3 weeks having rockets fitted

Rockets?

Won't be much left of the grouse after that....

 

[JB1601]

Does anyone know how wide the floor space at the bottom the berths is? Taking our 5 month old on her first sleeper trip in a couple of months, be good to know for planning what kind of travel cot we use!

 

[TimboM]

Does anyone know how wide the floor space at the bottom the berths is? Taking our 5 month old on her first sleeper trip in a couple of months, be good to know for planning what kind of travel cot we use!

Someone on here will probably know exactly, but it's not very wide...! There's some info on the seat61 site here: https://www.seat61.com/CaledonianSleepers.htm#Whats_the_Caledonian_Sleeper_like (section on 'Children...' further up the page) including a recommendation of a travel cot/bubble that fits in the berth (it's out of stock on Amazon, though, but should give an idea of dimensions that can be accommodated* - and other similar/newer options on the market):

Children under 5 go free, although they don't get their own berth. Cots can't be provided as there's insufficient room, but a Samsonite travel bubble fits on the floor for babies up to 18 months...

The page also provides dimensions of the beds (67cm wide) and has pics of the berths (including a link to a 'panorama' shot) where you can get a good feel of the floor space relative to the bed.

*I believe the Samsonsite Travel Bubble that fits the space has/had a footprint of 60cm wide x 96cm long.

 

[A Challenge]

Rockets?

Won't be much left of the grouse after that....

This would have trouble on the sleeper!

 

[47271]

Sorry, I couldn't see that on the screen at the time. It was the end of a long day!

Based on a couple of posts I made on here in autumn 2015, and again in autumn 2016, defending CS reliability versus First's from the point of view of one very regular user. I need to go to work now so don't have time to summarise them, but I'll fish them out later.

Apologies to Scotrail84, I've reread my posts #380 (26 October 2015) and #1908 (7 November 2016) and both of them cover Delay Repay caused by CS rather than NR problems.

2015 - no guard 22 June, wheel flat 27 July

2016 - electrical fault in coach 17 Aug

We also had the Scotrail conductor dispute last summer which caused problems for the sleeper, it's moot whether CS could have done more to mitigate the effects.

To be fair there were far more DR claims triggered by NR, but I was incorrect when I suggested that all claims were for infrastructure faults.

That said, I checked with my very regular user friend earlier and he's absolutely clear that every claim made in 2017 has been caused by NR, stats to follow, so that's where my bold statement of last night came from.

But again, and to reassure the occasional user, the sleeper's record is absolutely no worse than that of any other TOC.

 

[BRX]

The sleeper was a mess during the conductor dispute last year but it does seem fair to say that reliability has not been bad at all since then. Also a little while back I did a comparison with easyjet flights (to/from Inverness) which I posted on this thread and the sleeper compared well on both reliability and delays.

Where the sleeper is different from other TOCs though is in the magnitude of the impact of a cancelled service. Whereas on most daytime services a cancellation might mean a couple of hours' delay or some hours on an overcrowded service, cancellation of the sleeper can lead to completely messed up plans, perhaps the loss of the best part of a day (if, say, the Fort William train is cancelled at the last minute, then even if you manage to get on the first train out of London in the morning it's going to be the evening by the time you get to your destination), and discomforts such as being turfed out of bed at 3 in the morning or facing hours late at night spent sat on a bus instead of enjoying dinner in the lounge car and/or retiring to bed at a time of your choosing.

So, while it might be true that their record is no worse than any other TOC it does have to be taken into account that the impacts on the passenger are of a different nature. So they have to work a bit harder than other companies to sort things out when things go wrong.

 

[47271]

The sleeper was a mess during the conductor dispute last year but it does seem fair to say that reliability has not been bad at all since then. Also a little while back I did a comparison with easyjet flights (to/from Inverness) which I posted on this thread and the sleeper compared well on both reliability and delays.

Where the sleeper is different from other TOCs though is in the magnitude of the impact of a cancelled service. Whereas on most daytime services a cancellation might mean a couple of hours' delay or some hours on an overcrowded service, cancellation of the sleeper can lead to completely messed up plans, perhaps the loss of the best part of a day (if, say, the Fort William train is cancelled at the last minute, then even if you manage to get on the first train out of London in the morning it's going to be the evening by the time you get to your destination), and discomforts such as being turfed out of bed at 3 in the morning or facing hours late at night spent sat on a bus instead of enjoying dinner in the lounge car and/or retiring to bed at a time of your choosing.

So, while it might be true that their record is no worse than any other TOC it does have to be taken into account that the impacts on the passenger are of a different nature. So they have to work a bit harder than other companies to sort things out when things go wrong.

Can't disagree with anything you say here.

I hope that the last few posts haven't deterred High Dyke. Problems are very much the exception rather than the rule!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Does anyone know how wide the floor space at the bottom the berths is? Taking our 5 month old on her first sleeper trip in a couple of months, be good to know for planning what kind of travel cot we use!

When our daughter was very young what we did - by prior arrangement with the operator - was to set up her pushchair in the cabin; it just about fitted. She slept in that. We did this on both the Penzance and the Glasgow Sleepers.

Of course, we had to board by carrying her and unfold the pushchair when we were in the cabin.

Incidentally - have you thought about requesting to book the disabled cabin? There's a lot more space in there for a pushchair or a small portable cot.

 

[BRX]

I hope that the last few posts haven't deterred High Dyke. Problems are very much the exception rather than the rule!

Indeed. In the past 6-7 years using it for my annual summer trip up to the highlands (and occasionally around christmas) there have never been any significant problems - except for last year in the midst of the conductor dispute when both outward and return journeys got cancelled.

 

[Maxfly]

Apologies to Scotrail84, I've reread my posts #380 (26 October 2015) and #1908 (7 November 2016) and both of them cover Delay Repay caused by CS rather than NR problems.

2015 - no guard 22 June, wheel flat 27 July

2016 - electrical fault in coach 17 Aug

We also had the Scotrail conductor dispute last summer which caused problems for the sleeper, it's moot whether CS could have done more to mitigate the effects.

To be fair there were far more DR claims triggered by NR, but I was incorrect when I suggested that all claims were for infrastructure faults.

That said, I checked with my very regular user friend earlier and he's absolutely clear that every claim made in 2017 has been caused by NR, stats to follow, so that's where my bold statement of last night came from.

But again, and to reassure the occasional user, the sleeper's record is absolutely no worse than that of any other TOC.

Very likely to be mostly NWR but I assume the failure of 1Y11 a couple of weeks ago at Upper Tyndrum would have resulted in delay repay?

 

[Scotrail84]

90 045 on 1M16

 

[47271]

Very likely to be mostly NWR but I assume the failure of 1Y11 a couple of weeks ago at Upper Tyndrum would have resulted in delay repay?

Could be, I'm only going by what gets fed back to me by regulars, none of whom use the Fort William section.