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Caledonian Sleeper discussion

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Scotrail84

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Peter Mugridge said:
A question about the ECML diversions; it was discussed in the past few days about the northbound rakes running via the "Sub" in Edinburgh to get them the right way round following the earlier reversal at Wembley.

Does the southbound go via the "Sub" as well, or does it go straight out onto the ECML via Calton Tunnels?

Also... is this a recent thing or has it always been the case for years and years now that the ECML diversions go via the "Sub"?



The reason I am asking is that around 5 years ago I had a southbound ECML run, and as I always get my head down as early as possible, I am wondering whether I have in fact scratched the "Sub" track without realising it...?
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causton said:
I have never known to go via the "Sub" and only just read about it after you mentioned it! Never knew it was a thing... I have been southbound this year and that was direct and northbound when Lamington was shut and it did not happen then either, as far as I can remember (which I'm sure I would have!)
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No, I'm afraid you won't have covered the sub. Sleeper will not go via the sub. Route knowledge is a problem for both Drivers and Sleeper Guards. I know at least one Scottish guard that doesn't sign it and I don't think the London based guards have ever signed it.

The ECS will very occasionally go via the sub but this requires a diesel loco to provide traction.
 
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GW43125

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Scotrail84 said:
No, I'm afraid you won't have covered the sub. Sleeper will not go via the sub. Route knowledge is a problem for both Drivers and Sleeper Guards. I know at least one Scottish guard that doesn't sign it and I don't think the London based guards have ever signed it.

The ECS will very occasionally go via the sub but this requires a diesel loco to provide traction.
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Just remembered-that's the deal breaker there-sub isn't electrified!
 
marks87

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Peter Mugridge said:
A question about the ECML diversions; it was discussed in the past few days about the northbound rakes running via the "Sub" in Edinburgh to get them the right way round following the earlier reversal at Wembley.

Does the southbound go via the "Sub" as well, or does it go straight out onto the ECML via Calton Tunnels?

Also... is this a recent thing or has it always been the case for years and years now that the ECML diversions go via the "Sub"?



The reason I am asking is that around 5 years ago I had a southbound ECML run, and as I always get my head down as early as possible, I am wondering whether I have in fact scratched the "Sub" track without realising it...?
Click to expand...

As I pointed out at the time, entering Waverley from the east "undoes" the reversal at Wembley so there's no need to go via the Sub.
 
najaB

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Scotrail84 said:
It's highly likely it will never get wired.
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I disagree. Without it wired electric trains from and to points north and south of Edinburgh have no option but to trundle through Haymarket and Waverley.

This results in either less than ideal pathing or several hundred miles of diesel operation under the wires.
 
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Chrism20

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I'll be surprised if it isn't wired within the next few years, particularly with the depot going out to Millerhill. If Calton is blocked there is the potential for everything to be trapped on the wrong side.

For anyone who wants to do the south sub the 2105 XC from Glasgow Central to Waverley does it. I'm not sure if any other passenger ones do it.
 
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Scotrail84

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najaB said:
I disagree. Without it wired electric trains from and to points north and south of Edinburgh have no option but to trundle through Haymarket and Waverley.

This results in either less than ideal pathing or several hundred miles of diesel operation under the wires.
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Chrism20 said:
I'll be surprised if it isn't wired within the next few years, particularly with the depot going out to Millerhill. If Calton is blocked there is the potential for everything to be trapped on the wrong side.

For anyone who wants to do the south sub the 2105 XC from Glasgow Central to Waverley does it. I'm not sure if any other passenger ones do it.
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AFAIA there is no plans to wire it. There are a lot of clearance issues with bridges which would require a few major road closures in the south side of Edinburgh.

Wiring doesn't really benefit freight either as most are diesel hauled and some freights are route restricted and unable to use the sub.

No benefit for passenger services either as theres no stations and there is unlikely to be any rebuilt on the line. Cant see them wiring it to provide a diversionary route that will only be used very occasionally by electric trains.
 
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Scotrail84

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najaB said:
I disagree. Without it wired electric trains from and to points north and south of Edinburgh have no option but to trundle through Haymarket and Waverley.

This results in either less than ideal pathing or several hundred miles of diesel operation under the wires.
Click to expand...

Just like if Winchburgh to Haymarket is blocked the new electric trains can't go via Dalmeny to get round the blockage.
 
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InOban

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Scotrail84 said:
AFAIA there is no plans to wire it. There are a lot of clearance issues with bridges which would require a few major road closures in the south side of Edinburgh.

Wiring doesn't really benefit freight either as most are diesel hauled and some freights are route restricted and unable to use the sub.

No benefit for passenger services either as theres no stations and there is unlikely to be any rebuilt on the line. Cant see them wiring it to provide a diversionary route that will only be used very occasionally by electric trains.
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I suggest you Google network rail enhancement delivery plan ( latest version is June). The Scottish section is near the end. The clearance of the suburban line has been essentially completed to provide an alternative W12 freight route, and will be electrified in CP 6. It is being funded out of freight development funds.
 
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Scotrail84 said:
AFAIA there is no plans to wire it. There are a lot of clearance issues with bridges which would require a few major road closures in the south side of Edinburgh.

Wiring doesn't really benefit freight either as most are diesel hauled and some freights are route restricted and unable to use the sub.

No benefit for passenger services either as theres no stations and there is unlikely to be any rebuilt on the line. Cant see them wiring it to provide a diversionary route that will only be used very occasionally by electric trains.
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Listed in Scotland Route Study plans:

Edinburgh Suburban Line Enhancement Programme

Summary

Remodelling of Portobello, Slateford and Niddrie West single lead junctions, upgrade of the signalling capacity, enhancement of the Millerhill through route capabilities (from Monktonhall Junction) in addition to electrification.

Benefits

This package of enhancements will provide a robust and fit for purpose link between the East Coast Main Line and the West Coast Main line. It will accommodate forecast electric freight paths (avoiding Edinburgh Waverley), provide appropriate electric diversionary routes for Anglo Scottish and local services (to Dunbar/North Berwick and between Edinburgh and Glasgow via Falkirk High) and provide flexibility on the approaches to Edinburgh Waverley. Electrifying the existing line without further upgrades would provide an electrified link between the ECML and WCML for freight, but not the capacity for it to be used as a diversionary passenger route for ECML and WCML services running to /from Edinburgh Waverley.

This builds on the W12 gauge enhancement project and electrification of the Shotts line in CP5 and allows operators to divert electric rolling stock during planned disruption.
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Not guaranteed to happen yet but certainly reasonable to describe it as under consideration.
 
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Muzer

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Remember that NR are not allowed any more to unilaterally electrify lines (correct me if I'm wrong); it has to get DfT approval.
 
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DEE-DE

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Seems they are quite generous when there's a power failure. Two weeks ago I travelled from Dundee to London and there was a power failure in my coach. I got given the option of having free tea/coffee in the lounge and move into another portion or to stay in the coach with no heating/lighting. As the coach was still warm enough when I got on and I had long pyjamas I decided to stay in that coach. It was freezing cold in the morning though. Thankfully by the time I had to find my clothes there was enough light coming from outside as I think I would've struggled to find my socks with just the glow stick. Just had to make sure the train didn't stop while I was getting dressed...
I did put in claim for compensation thinking I would get maybe like five or ten quid in vouchers as provided for in the guest charter. Well, I got the full fare back which was fifty-odd quid. The only thing I paid for was my whisky and the porridge.
 
47271

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DEE-DE said:
Seems they are quite generous when there's a power failure. Two weeks ago I travelled from Dundee to London and there was a power failure in my coach. I got given the option of having free tea/coffee in the lounge and move into another portion or to stay in the coach with no heating/lighting. As the coach was still warm enough when I got on and I had long pyjamas I decided to stay in that coach. It was freezing cold in the morning though. Thankfully by the time I had to find my clothes there was enough light coming from outside as I think I would've struggled to find my socks with just the glow stick. Just had to make sure the train didn't stop while I was getting dressed...
I did put in claim for compensation thinking I would get maybe like five or ten quid in vouchers as provided for in the guest charter. Well, I got the full fare back which was fifty-odd quid. The only thing I paid for was my whisky and the porridge.
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You're lucky that it was only the cold you had to deal with. At least you can find things to help with that.

It's the heat just now on warm days, especially in the mk2s. They're regularly leaving Euston with 32-34C temps in the lounge and the seated. At least they can open the droplights and a bit of speed cools things down, but pity anyone in a sleeper berth with failed aircon, rare as it is. To be clear, temperature control in the mk3s is 95% good.

But as I understand it from this thread CS has abandoned aircon in the mk2s. After the general maintenance cockup of late 2015, probably their biggest misjudgement so far.
 
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Scotrail84

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47271 said:
You're lucky that it was only the cold you had to deal with. At least you can find things to help with that.

It's the heat just now on warm days, especially in the mk2s. They're regularly leaving Euston with 32-34C temps in the lounge and the seated. At least they can open the droplights and a bit of speed cools things down, but pity anyone in a sleeper berth with failed aircon, rare as it is. To be clear, temperature control in the mk3s is 95% good.

But as I understand it from this thread CS has abandoned aircon in the mk2s. After the general maintenance cockup of late 2015, probably their biggest misjudgement so far.
Click to expand...

This issue is currently in the process of getting addressed, hopefully all mk2's will have their aircon repaired.
 
47271

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Scotrail84 said:
This issue is currently in the process of getting addressed, hopefully all mk2's will have their aircon repaired.
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Great thanks - I'll inform my overheated colleagues that relief is on its way.

If I was going to be cynical then I'd say that CS hoped that it would be a cold summer and they'd get away with it until the new trains arrive, but the problem has gone on for far too long.

The mk2s were built to rely on aircon and they musn't be run without, end of.
 
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Scotrail84

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47271 said:
Great thanks - I'll inform my overheated colleagues that relief is on its way.

If I was going to be cynical then I'd say that CS hoped that it would be a cold summer and they'd get away with it until the new trains arrive, but the problem has gone on for far too long.

The mk2s were built to rely on aircon and they musn't be run without, end of.
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Mk2 AC is a very complicated system and difficult to repair. Coaches need to be removed from the formation to get it done and it takes a few days to sort I believe.
 
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Scotrail84 said:
Mk2 AC is a very complicated system and difficult to repair. Coaches need to be removed from the formation to get it done and it takes a few days to sort I believe.
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Only if you let it get to that state in the first place. Even VTWC in the darkest days never just gave up, shouldn't be allowed to enter traffic with AC isolated...
 
47271

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Scotrail84 said:
Who said it is isolated?
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If it isn't then it's as good as. This evening I've checked with those who suffer the 'summer' lounge on a regular basis and I'm told that there's been no discernable aircon since the middle of 2015. Maybe it died with the great maintenance crisis in late 2015, but it does appear that there's been a deliberate decision to let it go since.
 
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Scotrail84

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GW43125 said:
37 to the rescue apparently... lucky sods.
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It was cancelled at Upper Tyndrum. Compressor fault on the loco. No driver for the 37 to move the train so only alternative was to cape it where it was.
 
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LeylandLen

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Scotrail84 said:
It was cancelled at Upper Tyndrum. Compressor fault on the loco. No driver for the 37 to move the train so only alternative was to cape it where it was.
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So what happened to the train ? I can not see any ECS movements for it going to Fort William for tonight's departure to Euston ?
 
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