Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[TimboM]

Now you mentioned it, it rings a bell, and yes, 0Z93 shown as 90049, and 0Z94 shown as 92038+90016.

That is annoying as this is the second time I've missed it, although come to think about it, it just saved me £45 so there is a silver lining to everything eh?

Yes - just seen it reported as those two locos.

Definite silver lining - they do switch them around every few weeks and I suspect the F/L 90 hire-in will continue for a bit so hopefully there's "next time".

I wonder if 92038 is going to Crewe as a staging post to be next in to Loughborough? It's one of the three left to be modified and 92023 and 92028 have completed another week of testing so, baring any further issues having been identified, would be expected to be back in service very soon to enable another one to go in. 86101 being back also provides another ECS loco option (038 did the Wembley/Euston ECS turns last night/this morning).

The other option is 038 is going on the Garston-Dagenham cars (that's been 66-hauled for the last 5 weeks) but again I'd have thought that would be the next "test" for 92028 or 92023.

 

[bb21]

That's the problem with a non-shift based job. Friday nights are really the only options, and like you say, they tend to switch them on Fridays so all a bit of a lottery, but you can bet that the one weekend it turns up again the train's gonna be full.

Yes that does seem to be the likely destination for 038.

 

[LeylandLen]

When diverted via the ECML it's in the correct formation leaving Euston, goes into reverse formation leaving Wembley but then rights itself by entering Waverley from the east.

Thanks for that , can understand it now . I now see it enters Edinburgh from either Haymarket or Portobello and Craigentinny. Now know why the first to leave is always the Inverness portion followed by Aberdeen and Fort William which would not be the same if they were 'the wrong way round ' .

 

[TimboM]

Looks like 92014 on 1S25 (Highlander northbound) and 92033 on 1S26 (Lowlander northbound) tonight.

 

[Scotrail84]

Looks like 92014 on 1S25 (Highlander northbound) and 92033 on 1S26 (Lowlander northbound) tonight.

That's correct although the driver tells me 1S25 should have had a 90 on it.

 

[TimboM]

That's correct although the driver tells me 1S25 should have had a 90 on it.

I suspect that 90049 (replacing 90016 today) getting held up at Watford Jnc for 2 hours is something to do with that?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O06854/2017/06/23/advanced

 

[Clansman]

90047 on the Southbound Highlander for those interested.

 

[TimboM]

That's correct although the driver tells me 1S25 should have had a 90 on it.

I suspect that 90049 (replacing 90016 today) getting held up at Watford Jnc for 2 hours is something to do with that?

It's on the Caledonian 92s thread, but for completeness here, 90049 was requisitioned to rescue failed 4M88 (Felixstowe-Crewe 66-hauled Freightliner) just north of Watford Jnc and haul it to Bletchley where it could be put 'out of the way'. 90049 then resumed its journey to Willesden - hence the c.2 hour delay.

 

[fgwrich]

Not noted in either thread yet is that 86101 has returned from Barrow Hill, and is now back at Willesden.

 

[TimboM]

Not noted in either thread yet is that 86101 has returned from Barrow Hill, and is now back at Willesden.

Check out post #3910 above... [last line] http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=3032225&postcount=3910

It was either 86101 or 87002 on ECS duties at Euston last night - when I saw it (from a bit of a distance) I thought it was 87002, but TOPS info seems to suggest it was 86101. Does anyone know which it was?

 

[captainbigun]

86101

 

[TimboM]

86101

Thanks - straight back to work then!

 

[JModulo]

Thanks - straight back to work then!

Also worked the lowlander empties from Euston on Saturday morning, hauled south by 92010.

 

[Track Basher]

Friday 25th August Southbound

22:30 GLC - KGX (EDB portion no availability at the moment) arr KGX at 06:31

FTW/ABN usual times from origins but arr in KGX at 08:25

INV - KGX usual time from INV but arr at KGX at 07:46

Sunday 27th August

21:19 KGX - INV

22:08 KGX - ABN/FTW

23:38 KGX - EDB/GLC

Northbound services usual arrival times at destinations

There is no departure from Edinburgh on Friday. It is at 00:31 which is Saturday.

 

[TimboM]

Also worked the lowlander empties from Euston on Saturday morning, hauled south by 92010.

Thanks. Tonight's electric traction AFAIK:

1S25 (N Highlander): 90047
1S26 (N Lowlander): 90049
1M11 (S Lowlander): 92018
1M16 (S Highlander): 92014
Edinburgh portion: 92033

Glasgow ECS: 86401
Euston (Lowlander) ECS: 92010*

UPDATED:
*Left Wembley 68 Late - was allocated originally as 87002, so not sure if there was an issue with the intended loco?

 

[66Yorks]

Have these services stopped using the ECML on Sunday/Mondays?

 

[TimboM]

Have these services stopped using the ECML on Sunday/Mondays?

Yes - they were a run of temporary engineering diversions. Finished now. I believe the next ECML runs are the late August BH weekend when services will be running to Kings Cross (see a few posts above).

 

[Scotrail84]

There is no departure from Edinburgh on Friday. It is at 00:31 which is Saturday.

 

[LeylandLen]

Friday 25th August Southbound

22:30 GLC - KGX (EDB portion no availability at the moment) arr KGX at 06:31

FTW/ABN usual times from origins but arr in KGX at 08:25

INV - KGX usual time from INV but arr at KGX at 07:46

Sunday 27th August

21:19 KGX - INV

22:08 KGX - ABN/FTW

23:38 KGX - EDB/GLC

Northbound services usual arrival times at destinations

I presume its a separate train from/to Inverness for anticipated demand ?
It will be interesting as to how they allocate the resources

 

[TimboM]

I presume its a separate train from/to Inverness for anticipated demand ?
It will be interesting as to how they allocate the resources

North of Edinburgh it will be no different of course (still requires three separate diesel locos).

It's one extra electric loco needed for the additional train south of Edinburgh - however for the southbound Friday/northbound Sunday services, as the Lowlander will be going GLC-EDB-KGX via the ECML, there's no Waverley-Carstairs-Waverley circuit, so just needs the one 90/92 on it and the second 90/92 that would ordinarily be in Scotland on the "Carstairs circuit" can haul the Southbound extra train on the Friday, then back on the Sunday and all is then back to where it should be for the following week.

That then just leaves the Edinburgh portion ECS to get from Polmadie to Waverley (and back), but they can use something like the Colas 47 (47749) or a 73/9 for that (depending on availability at the time, engineering possessions etc.).

I'm assuming in saying this that from Scotrail84's info it's 3 trains south on the Friday and 3 north on the Sunday, with the opposite workings only 2 as normal - however if there's 3 in the opposite directions as well, then there's usually at least one or two "spare" 90/92s at Willesden, so they'd presumably just use one of those for the extra train north on Friday and back on Sunday.

 

[IanXC]

I presume its a separate train from/to Inverness for anticipated demand ?
It will be interesting as to how they allocate the resources

Nope. Purely the platform lengths at Kings Cross not allowing for the full formation lengths.

 

[TimboM]

Nope. Purely the platform lengths at Kings Cross not allowing for the full formation lengths.

Presumably the Lowlander will need to be short-formed, though (as not getting split)?

So there would be some link to demand - i.e. on a BH weekend the view is the Lowlander is OK with the reduced capacity, but not the Highlander. (Or they can't split both, so have gone with the best/most likely to be busier option.)

 

[Scotrail84]

Presumably the Lowlander will need to be short-formed, though (as not getting split)?

So there would be some link to demand - i.e. on a BH weekend the view is the Lowlander is OK with the reduced capacity, but not the Highlander. (Or they can't split both, so have gone with the best/most likely to be busier option.)

Nortbounds will leave from Eus on the friday night and Monday night.

Southbound Friday they arr in Kgx.

Northbound Sunday they leave from Kgx.

 

[LeylandLen]

Nothing on Caledonian Sleepers ' service alterations' page about the arrivals / departures to / from Kings Cross .. just saying, not having a go !
I assumed wrongly now that Kings Cross could take the full rake of 16 carriages for the Highlander service hence my query . Now I know why there is a separate train to/from Inverness.

 

[GW43125]

Nothing on Caledonian Sleepers ' service alterations' page about the arrivals / departures to / from Kings Cross .. just saying, not having a go !
I assumed wrongly now that Kings Cross could take the full rake of 16 carriages for the Highlander service hence my query . Now I know why there is a separate train to/from Inverness.

A rather crude calculation suggests that at absolute most, the Cross can take 2 locos & 14 carriages (using full length of P1 at a push); but 2+16 is an absolute no.

 

[TimboM]

A rather crude calculation suggests that at absolute most, the Cross can take 2 locos & 14 carriages (using full length of P1 at a push); but 2+16 is an absolute no.

I'm pretty sure Scotrail84 (who knows these things) has confirmed on here before that it's max Load 13 + 2 locos (ties in with your estimate of 14 at a push).

 

[Far north 37]

seen 92014 following the highlander ecs in tonight i assume the leading loco isnt hauled dead on the back end but uses another path then or does it vary

 

[GW43125]

I'm pretty sure Scotrail84 (who knows these things) has confirmed on here before that it's max Load 13 + 2 locos (ties in with your estimate of 14 at a push).

I just realised that I misread the platform length- 298 to ramp, 360 to signal. I was basing it on the 360m length...

 

[GW43125]

seen 92014 following the highlander ecs in tonight i assume the leading loco isnt hauled dead on the back end but uses another path then or does it vary

The loco that brings the Highland ECS into Euston is generally the loco which takes the Lowlander north.

 

[Far north 37]

The loco that brings the Highland ECS into Euston is generally the loco which takes the Lowlander north.

yeah i was meaning the loco that takes the train north isnt hauled dead on the back but runs light behind the ecs using another path