Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[CosherB]

Dare I say this a marketing ploy to fill an otherwise quietish service with enthusiasts, bearing in mind 87002 and 86401 have done "full" runs in the last couple of months as last-minute stand-ins for the booked 90/92s...

Unashamed naked marketing at it's 21st century best!

 

[bb21]

Unashamed naked marketing at it's 21st century best!

Nothing wrong with that. I suspect quite a few will be filled with Priv fares as public fares can be quite outrageous these days.

A Priv fare is better than an empty berth I guess.

 

[47271]

I've attached some screenshots of the new layouts below although I think the seated coach may just be a Mk2!

Unless I'm missing something, the sleepers just look like mk3s too?!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've attached some screenshots of the new layouts below although I think the seated coach may just be a Mk2!

Yes, it is.

Don't pick a facing bay, the legroom is rather tight.

 

[najaB]

Unless I'm missing something, the sleepers just look like mk3s too?!

Coach J doesn't look like a Mk 3, though K might be.

 

[TimboM]

Unless I'm missing something, the sleepers just look like mk3s too?!

What I assume is the First Class one (J) has 6 berths not 10, with two appearing to be only single occupancy.

Also, what do the current standard Mk3s have? I thought it was 12 or 13 berths depending on whether it was a SLEP or SLE (but may be wrong)? These are showing as having 10.

They're also diagrammatic only - not giving a scale representation of the design/layout I don't think.


...if you look closely at K, the windows on the berth side in the diagram are still as per the Mk3, but no longer line up (or are the same number as) the berths. So looks like they've not changed the outer template, just the number of berths within the coach diagram.

 

[cf111]

I admit it's been a while since I booked a sleeper ticket through Serco directly, work make us use a travel agent, and the last time I did the berth picker was similar but instead of boxes there were wee pictures of doors with the numbers printed on them.

 

[TimboM]

Absolutely, if they're well maintained and reliable enough to do the job (and they obviously are) then best of luck to them and I hope a few people enjoy a trip behind them.

87002 and 86401 (x2) have both done last minute stand-in runs in the past few months no problem, so they're more than capable.

86101 is at Barrow Hill for repair currently and hasn't done a "long" run since last year I don't think.

 

[GB71]

It would also appear that when trying to make a booking for after the new stock is supposed to be in service certain railcard discounts are no longer available for berths - specifically friends and family and two together railcards that currently give discounts on berths and seated accommodation are only showing discounts for the seated accommodation - 16-25 and senior railcards still appear to be giving the discount in all categories - a nice little fare rise?

 

[TimboM]

It would also appear that when trying to make a booking for after the new stock is supposed to be in service certain railcard discounts are no longer available for berths - specifically friends and family and two together railcards that currently give discounts on berths and seated accommodation are only showing discounts for the seated accommodation - 16-25 and senior railcards still appear to be giving the discount in all categories - a nice little fare rise?

Wouldn't be surprised... if these diagrams are accurate,the maximum (berth) capacity of the sleepers will be notably reduced (by 25% if my maths are right) so no doubt more discounts/deals will disappear to help make up for that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wouldn't be surprised... if these diagrams are accurate,the maximum (berth) capacity of the sleepers will be notably reduced (by 25% if my maths are right) so no doubt more discounts/deals will disappear to help make up for that.

Isn't the idea that the 1st class ones will be bigger rather than just being 2nd class ones with a bed folded up?

 

[TimboM]

Isn't the idea that the 1st class ones will be bigger rather than just being 2nd class ones with a bed folded up?

Yes, it's a whole new design - the new stock has (in First) en suite and berths with double-beds. Looks like the Standard berths will be a bit bigger too.

Some pics on the CS website here of mock-ups:

https://www.sleeper.scot/news/155-transport-minister-glimpses-future-of-caledonian-sleeper

 

[47271]

What I assume is the First Class one (J) has 6 berths not 10, with two appearing to be only single occupancy.

Also, what do the current standard Mk3s have? I thought it was 12 or 13 berths depending on whether it was a SLEP or SLE (but may be wrong)? These are showing as having 10.

They're also diagrammatic only - not giving a scale representation of the design/layout I don't think.


...if you look closely at K, the windows on the berth side in the diagram are still as per the Mk3, but no longer line up (or are the same number as) the berths. So looks like they've not changed the outer template, just the number of berths within the coach diagram.

I've had a chance to look at the plans in more detail. They're definitely mk3 outlines, and the accessible WC is exactly the same size and shape as it is in the current vehicle. Two ordinary loos is what you get at the end of every other mk3, and that's what you see here.

I think what they've done is redrawn the berth directions so that First looks like it only has six compartments and Standard ten. First has twelve as a rule in mk3s (1L-23L, all odd numbers) and Standard has 24 (1L-24U). It looks like all they're doing is creating a booking template that works for both old and new stock without giving away too much about the new. There's quite a bit of jiggling round of berths on the night as it is, so anyone booking the new trains on this plan should expect to be moved to something quite different when they travel.

 

[TimboM]

Some issue at Preston - 1S25 (N Highlander) sat at Wigan already an hour late. Freights also stopped in front.

Per Network Rail's informative(!) Tweet: "Staff are on site assessing a potential problem."

Update: lines now open - but will be c.80 Late by the time it gets on the move again.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Some issue at Preston - 1S25 (N Highlander) sat at Wigan already an hour late. Freights also stopped in front.

Per Network Rail's informative(!) Tweet: "Staff are on site assessing a potential problem."

Update: lines now open - but will be c.80 Late by the time it gets on the move again.

Just on the move from Wigan now. All trains in the area of control of Preston PSB at a stand (both 1S25 and the last Manchester - Blackpool, which is now 110 late, were held at North Western). Perhaps a loss of signalling/box evacuation?
UPDATE - Inverness departed Waverley 71 late. Aberdeen 55 late (following the 05:30); Fort William 55 late

 

[TimboM]

Just on the move from Wigan now. All trains in the area of control of Preston PSB at a stand (both 1S25 and the last Manchester - Blackpool, which is now 110 late, were held at North Western). Perhaps a loss of signalling/box evacuation?
UPDATE - Inverness departed Waverley 71 late. Aberdeen 55 late (following the 05:30); Fort William 55 late

No idea what the issue was... a "possible problem" per NR which resulted in 90-110 mins delays!?

Things didn't improved for Highlander passengers: Inverness arrived over two hours late (131 Late) and Fort William arrived 72 Late.
I'm assuming they had to keep letting day trains pass on the single line sections?

Aberdeen fared better and was 'only' 43 Late.

 

[Coolzac]

Are Caledonian Sleeper allowed not to offer Railcard discounts for the Two Together Railcard?

When you purchase it, it clearly states that the only fares that you don't get a discount on are Peak Time Fares, so surely this represents a breach of consumer law, surely?

 

[MylesHSG]

87002 collected both sleepers out of Euston this morning, must have been a driver short.

 

[InOban]

No idea what the issue was... a "possible problem" per NR which resulted in 90-110 mins delays!?

Things didn't improved for Highlander passengers: Inverness arrived over two hours late (131 Late) and Fort William arrived 72 Late.
I'm assuming they had to keep letting day trains pass on the single line sections?

Aberdeen fared better and was 'only' 43 Late.

Not just the single line sections. The FW portion would have to fit in between QS LL trains through Glasgow. It should run just in front of the first of them. I'm almost surprised it only lost another 15 minutes or so.

 

[Hadders]

Are Caledonian Sleeper allowed not to offer Railcard discounts for the Two Together Railcard?

When you purchase it, it clearly states that the only fares that you don't get a discount on are Peak Time Fares, so surely this represents a breach of consumer law, surely?

I think they have to give the discount if a walk on ticket is used but I suspect they can do what they want with berth supplements and Advance Fares.

 

[12CSVT]

*Sings*
On the 12th day of Xmas Cally Sleaper gave to me:

12 different Locos
11 cleaners cleaning
10 stuards serving
9 Yanky tourists
8 Scottish Breakfasts
7 mault Whiskies
6 different classes
5 FOC's!
4 blocked bogs
3 dodgy heaters
2 disruptive pax
and a failed class 67.

Sorry but Timbo's rattling off of numbers above got me thinking up silly songs!

How about a variation to W H Auden's 'Night Mail' poem

This is the sleeper crossing the border
Will the class 92 reach Edinburgh in full working order ?

 

[endecotp]

How about a variation to W H Auden's 'Night Mail' poem

This is the sleeper crossing the border
Will the class 92 reach Edinburgh in full working order ?

Less Auden and more McGonagall, with that scansion.

 

[Clansman]

My train to Inverness overtook the Inverness portion at Carrbridge this morning - a lot of unhappy folk in the crowded lounge by the looks of it.

 

[43096]

Less Auden and more McGonagall, with that scansion.

Would be better (and more accurately now mods have been done) written as:

This is the sleeper crossing the border
Class 92 in full working order
...

I'm not sure anyone with a username of "12CSVT" should be commenting on reliability of traction given the abysmal reliability of the 37s on the Cumbrian Coast. But they are special, because they are HFMLzzzzzzzzz Twactorzzzzzzzzzzz...........

 

[47271]

My train to Inverness overtook the Inverness portion at Carrbridge this morning - a lot of unhappy folk in the crowded lounge by the looks of it.

That's quite embarrassing - being so slow and in the way that you're overtaken up Slochd by a 170!

 

[Clansman]

That's quite embarrassing - being so slow and in the way that you're overtaken up Slochd by a 170!

Quite embarrassing indeed.

A bit of a disgrace that the Sleeper took over 3 hours to get from Perth to Inverness - which is longer than it takes a 170 to do Inverness to Glasgow! What was the reason for the delay North of Edinburgh? Poor locomotive (67007) or just the fact that it had to wait at stations for track access due to the single line being used by other services?

 

[najaB]

What was the reason for the delay North of Edinburgh? Poor locomotive (67007) or just the fact that it had to wait at stations for track access due to the single line being used by other serviceS?

Looking at RealtimeTrains the delay seems to have increased at crossing loops so it does look like it was the usual case of an out of course service getting later and later having lost its path.

 

[47271]

Quite embarrassing indeed.

A bit of a disgrace that the Sleeper took over 3 hours to get from Perth to Inverness - which is longer than it takes a 170 to do Inverness to Glasgow! What was the reason for the delay North of Edinburgh? Poor locomotive (67007) or just the fact that it had to wait at stations for track access due to the single line being used by other serviceS?

Crosses I think: near on 15 minutes sat at Dunkeld (0536 Inverness-Edinburgh) and half an hour at Dalwhinnie (Chieftain) look to be the main causes of the growth in delay. Oh, and of course waiting to be overtaken at Carrbridge...

It didn't appear to lose time climbing Drumochter, so the 67 probably wasn't to blame.

 

[BRX]

Waiting to board at Inverness. 67007 on the front...as expected.

 

[najaB]

Waiting to board at Inverness. 67007 on the front...as expected.

It would've been interesting if it had been anything else.