Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[BestWestern]

Purely out of curiosity, is there a requirement for sleeping accommodation to be staffed by a certain quota of crew? Or is it technically possible to operate with only the Guard for dispatch purposes? Not that I'm suggesting the above as a proposition, merely interested!

Also, are the Guards employed directly by Cally or are they ScotRail/GBRf etc? Drivers I presume are GBRf but allocated permanently to Cally duties?

 

[najaB]

Purely out of curiosity, is there a requirement for sleeping accommodation to be staffed by a certain quota of crew? Or is it technically possible to operate with only the Guard for dispatch purposes? Not that I'm suggesting the above as a proposition, merely interested!

I don't know, but cannot see any reason that they couldn't operate with just a guard. Compartment stock used to operate with just a guard after all.

Also, are the Guards employed directly by Cally or are they ScotRail/GBRf etc?

As I understand it, the north of Edinburgh guards are Scotrail (though CS are recruiting), south of Edinburgh they are CS employees.

 

[IanXC]

I have a recollection that an outcome of the Taunton fire was a practice of having 1 host for every 2 sleeping cars (hence a mix of SLE/SLEP stock). Whether that is a requirement as such I'm not sure.

 

[najaB]

I have a recollection that an outcome of the Taunton fire was a practice of having 1 host for every 2 sleeping cars (hence a mix of SLE/SLEP stock). Whether that is a requirement as such I'm not sure.

Would that apply if, as was suggested above, it was being run as a daytime train to get people down to Euston? Many questions!

 

[trainophile]

Are there smoke alarms in the sleeping compartments? I would imagine so, if only to deter smokers.

 

[najaB]

Are there smoke alarms in the sleeping compartments? I would imagine so, if only to deter smokers.

Yes, there are detectors and alarm sounders.

 

[47271]

I don't know what the rules are on whether they have to run with an attendant per two sleeper coaches, but I've heard of cases where they've been one staff member short and the first thing to go has been the lounge, which has been shut for the entire journey.

So I think it's safe to say that they're most unlikely to set off with only a guard and half a dozen carriages worth of passengers.

 

[Swanny200]

Slightly changing the subject, was looking up clayhills depot, I used to live in Aberdeen and my dad used to lift me over the wall so I could see the rails.

According to the well loved Wikipedia:As of 2016, the depot has no allocation. It is, instead, a stabling point for Virgin Trains East Coast Class 43 HSTs[2] and Mark 4 carriages) Caledonian Sleeper Class 90/92 locomotives (including their Mark 3 carriages) and ScotRail Class 158 Express Sprinters.[3]

Erm... Has a 90 or 92 ever made it that far?

 

[TimboM]

Slightly changing the subject, was looking up clayhills depot, I used to live in Aberdeen and my dad used to lift me over the wall so I could see the rails.

According to the well loved Wikipedia:As of 2016, the depot has no allocation. It is, instead, a stabling point for Virgin Trains East Coast Class 43 HSTs[2] and Mark 4 carriages) Caledonian Sleeper Class 90/92 locomotives (including their Mark 3 carriages) and ScotRail Class 158 Express Sprinters.[3]

Erm... Has a 90 or 92 ever made it that far?

Wiki strikes again!

 

[Crossover]

Slightly changing the subject, was looking up clayhills depot, I used to live in Aberdeen and my dad used to lift me over the wall so I could see the rails.

According to the well loved Wikipedia:As of 2016, the depot has no allocation. It is, instead, a stabling point for Virgin Trains East Coast Class 43 HSTs[2] and Mark 4 carriages) Caledonian Sleeper Class 90/92 locomotives (including their Mark 3 carriages) and ScotRail Class 158 Express Sprinters.[3]

Erm... Has a 90 or 92 ever made it that far?

Wiki strikes again!

 

[adrock1976]

I'd be surprised if a Mk 4 has made it up there either

The only obvious possibility I can think of is the unlikely chance they have been dragged north of Edinburgh.

I do not ever recall Mk IVs being dragged, with the exception along the Newcastle & Carlisle Railway on engineering diverts.

 

[ld0595]

The only obvious possibility I can think of is the unlikely chance they have been dragged north of Edinburgh.

I do not ever recall Mk IVs being dragged, with the exception along the Newcastle & Carlisle Railway on engineering diverts.

I saw a photo on here once of a 47 dragging some Mk IVs along the Rosyth Dockyard branch line back in the 90s. I'll see if I can find it!

Edit: Here it is

 

[Liam]

The only obvious possibility I can think of is the unlikely chance they have been dragged north of Edinburgh.

I do not ever recall Mk IVs being dragged, with the exception along the Newcastle & Carlisle Railway on engineering diverts.

I'm sure I've seen it posted on these forums before that the furthest North the Mk4's have been so far is Inverkeithing on their way to a respray at Rosyth Dockyard.

 

[Swanny200]

There is the thing however that, if you have been out of the scene too long and not read up on things, if you were to read that class 73's were on the Sleeper you would think you were in cloud cuckoo land "what 73's with their tiny diesel engine, didn't think 3rd rail would work in Scotland!"

 

[jadmor]

I saw a photo on here once of a 47 dragging some Mk IVs along the Rosyth Dockyard branch line back in the 90s. I'll see if I can find it!

Edit: Here it is

I took the linked photograph in the mid 90s, on the rosyth dockyard branch. 225 sets were being dragged to a special unit at Babcocks for painting, as I recall this was shortly after privatisation.

 

[TimboM]

There is the thing however that, if you have been out of the scene too long and not read up on things, if you were to read that class 73's were on the Sleeper you would think you were in cloud cuckoo land "what 73's with their tiny diesel engine, didn't think 3rd rail would work in Scotland!"

And you'd definitely think you were in cloud cuckoo land when you found out 66s were also on the Sleeper, "what, large freight locos with no ETS?"

 

[Swanny200]

And you'd definitely think you were in cloud cuckoo land when you found out 66s were also on the Sleeper, "what, large freight locos with no ETS?"

I'm waiting for the next Wiki update to say that the coaching stock is 442's and they are hauled by a deltic each end

 

[jadmor]

I'm sure I've seen it posted on these forums before that the furthest North the Mk4's have been so far is Inverkeithing on their way to a respray at Rosyth Dockyard.

Here is a photo of a 225 set being dragged by a class 47 to Rosyth Dockyard, taken some time after privatisation, for repainting into GNER livery.

https://flic.kr/p/RAXFAU

 

[jadmor]

And here is a copy of the photo from the above link

 

[jopsuk]

If there's wrong data on Wikipedia, amend it...

 

[Gonzoiku]

The service last night finally made it into Edinburgh at 0602. The ECS then left at 0635 direct to Wembley depot (arriving 12:50). So, just enough time really to wake-up the passengers, give them the good news, clear the train - and then the train they'd just been on went on it's way to London.

The detrained folk would presumably have then got the 0626 to London KX (arr. 1050), or if they weren't awake/quick enough for that, the 0655 to KX (arr. 1140).

Now I know there are all sorts of staff considerations, getting space in Euston (although it would've been off-peak when it arrived) and giving it enough time in the depot for preparing it for tonight, but I'd have thought a good proportion of the passengers - if offered the choice - would've happily stayed on (and gone back to sleep!) and arrived at Euston c.1pm?

Not disputing the timings, TimboM, but your presumption about the detrained folk is off-beam. I understand from CS that they were detrained at Dalwhinnie and taxied to hotel(s) in Edinburgh, thence to London by daytrain. Arrival could therefore have been to your timings (if not a bit before, by catching an even earlier service).

GZ

GZ

 

[cambsy]

I was on that train, which was 5hrs late, I woke up about 3.30am, had a look out berth window to see where we were, then used Real Times Train to see how doing, it was then realised we were very late, seemed to moving on a bit so was unsure if info wrong, but quite quickly worked out it was right, wether other people got de trained I don't know, Attendant didn't wake me up, but I was on the train till Edinburgh where we arrived 06.02 am then caught along with pretty much everybody the 06.26 Edinburgh-Kings Cross.

 

[trainophile]

What sort of delay repay applies if the sleeper is several hours late?

And an unrelated question - are there hooks or hangers in the sleeping compartments, so you can hang your clothes up overnight?

 

[Marklund]

And an unrelated question - are there hooks or hangers in the sleeping compartments, so you can hang your clothes up overnight?

Yes, there are fixed hangers which I would advise you to use anyway, as it stops them banging about during the night.

The CS website has a 360 degree view of the cabins here.

 

[47271]

What sort of delay repay applies if the sleeper is several hours late?

And an unrelated question - are there hooks or hangers in the sleeping compartments, so you can hang your clothes up overnight?

100% back if you're over an hour late.

There are four hangers attached to two vertical straps on the wall opposite the bed/s and two coathooks on the inside of the compartment door.

 

[trainophile]

Thanks both, good news on both counts then. I like the virtual tour - it's not for claustrophobics is it?

 

[BestWestern]

Thanks both, good news on both counts then. I like the virtual tour - it's not for claustrophobics is it?

Try being awoken by a jolt, into pitch black darkness on a gently swaying top bunk!

 

[cf111]

Try being awoken by a jolt, into pitch black darkness on a gently swaying top bunk!

I sometimes wake up, quite sedately, on the floor having fallen from the bottom bunk. I could sleep through a bombing right enough

 

[47271]

I sometimes wake up, quite sedately, on the floor having fallen from the bottom bunk. I could sleep through a bombing right enough [emoji38]

I've never fallen out of bed, but came close once due to a abrupt issue with the brakes.

I don't want to deter Trainophile, but I distantly know someone who was in the Paddington sleeper crash in 1983. He says that he was dreaming that the train was crashing, and then woke up, and it was. 'The train now arriving at platforms 2,3,4 and 5'.

 

[trainophile]

hock:

I probably won't even get to sleep on it now! I'll be clinging on to the bed for dear life!