Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Flying Snail]

Thus far your only claim appears to be that staff are striking therefore it must be worse, plus your own anecdotal report. But there's nothing to back this up. Bring the hard facts and numbers then have the debate.

He has.

2 sources.

PPM Period 2: 2014 - 98.2% 2015 - 91.7

with period 1 2015 at 88.8% which was the first period under SERCO, not FSR as you wrongly posted.

PPM Period 9: 2014 - 94.6% 2015 - 72.6%

Right time performance Period 9: 2014 - 81.5% 2015 - 62.7%

 

[Philip Phlopp]

He has.

2 sources.

PPM Period 2: 2014 - 98.2% 2015 - 91.7

with period 1 2015 at 88.8% which was the first period under SERCO, not FSR as you wrongly posted.

PPM Period 9: 2014 - 94.6% 2015 - 72.6%

Right time performance Period 9: 2014 - 81.5% 2015 - 62.7%

Right time performance for Period 9 has Caledonian Sleeper 6th out of 23 operators and 1st out of all long distance operators. Annually (MAA) they're also 6th out of 23. XC for Period 9 are at 29.8% v CS at 62.7%.

Network Rail delays on Caledonian Sleeper were running at 60% or so, don't know what they're at for Period 9 and adjusted for MAA. It's worth pointing out though, in the balance of fairness, CS has less delays attributed to other TOCs so the remaining 40% is more TOC-on-self delays.

 

[Flying Snail]

Right time performance for Period 9 has Caledonian Sleeper 6th out of 23 operators and 1st out of all long distance operators. Annually (MAA) they're also 6th out of 23. XC for Period 9 are at 29.8% v CS at 62.7%.

CS is so different from other TOCs I don't know how much can be read into a comparison, especially as the run in relatively uncongested but more engineering affected timeslots and their services have massive slack built in.

Comparing with their own previous performance is the only real indicator of anything and TBF SERCO's performance vice FSR is central to the discussion.

Network Rail delays on Caledonian Sleeper were running at 60% or so, don't know what they're at for Period 9 and adjusted for MAA. It's worth pointing out though, in the balance of fairness, CS has less delays attributed to other TOCs so the remaining 40% is more TOC-on-self delays.

Source for these?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Source for these?

NR failure data - it's from data I put together monitoring OLE failure rates and other electrical infrastructure issues. It's only a rough figure and can vary depending on where actual blame is attributed through the system.

 

[Altnabreac]

You are the one asking for evidence then go and find some to tell us SERCO are doing fine - if you can.

I am offering opinions of those that travel on the sleeper regularly and staff that work on the sleeper as evidence.

All I have read here is waffle and fantasy that this is a strike manufactured by the RMT (when it was staff who took their grievances to the union and not vice versa). Waffle that it is RMT on a vendetta against poor little SERCO.

If this were the case then why have RMT given SERCO a good three months to prove (as promised) things would improve when the haven't at all. And that is why we are where we are now.
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I've offered my inside viewpoints from experience of travelling on the train but if you feel that isn't valid then sobeit but what evidence can you show me that SERCO are doing well and cannot be faulted for this situation?

Look anecdotally the feedback I have had from regular travellers since the Serco takeover has been very positive.

There have obviously been some issues with maintenance but it seems odd to me to strike over an issue that seems to be under investigation by Alstom and is being looked at by senior Serco staff. Just doesn't feel like a last resort.

I can sympathise with staff if things aren't improving but I don't really see how this strike helps promote the future of the service.

I'm using the Sleeper myself in January so will be interesting to see how the ambience feels. Ultimately though it is old stock so there will hopefully be an improvement for everyone once the new stock arrives.

Just hope incompetent management or militant staff don't destroy the customer base by then.

 

[Hadders]

We now have defective rolling stock and poor industrial relations to add to the list of woe:

Appalling reliability
Refusal to accept Local Scottish Routeing Guide Easements
Massive increase in berth supplement fees
Withdrawal of the option for sole use of a standard class berth with a normal 'day' ticket
Refusal to accept ALRs on their last day of validity

 

[IanXC]

Subjectively my experience has definatley gone downhill since the Serco takeover, but of course I don't have any specific figures.

I have wondered whether "action short of a strike" would have been more pointed in this, if staff had refused to operate any service containing vehicles with non functioning Fire Alarms I think the impact and visibility would be much clearer.

 

[DerekC]

Northbound cancelled again tonight - "at customer request" according to Realtime Trains - Anybody know why?

 

[Quakkerillo]

Northbound cancelled again tonight - "at customer request" according to Realtime Trains - Anybody know why?

that strike, remember?

 

[Class 170101]

Northbound cancelled again tonight - "at customer request" according to Realtime Trains - Anybody know why?

Strike. RTT shows it as customer request because it draws its data from NR systems. Serco is one of NR's customers

 

[DerekC]

Doh - OK penny dropped - should have read the previous posts.

 

[DarloRich]

2340/Glasgow - euston cancelled this evening

 

[Starmill]

We know. They're all cancelled...

 

[alphamale]

The 23.50 ran from Euston - Glasgow I heard the sleeper was replaced by a charter set due to the strike, a set of 8 Mark2 seated coaches was used instead. Anyone able to get some pics of these coaches?

 

[amcluesent]

I doubt any of the pax whose Xmas travel plans have been thrown into chaos will return.

Am I right to think this is RMT scoring points after the transfer of maintenance from RMT members in Inverness to Alsthom staff in Glasgow?

 

[sprinterguy]

The 23.50 ran from Euston - Glasgow I heard the sleeper was replaced by a charter set due to the strike, a set of 8 Mark2 seated coaches was used instead. Anyone able to get some pics of these coaches?

It does appear in TRUST as if something did indeed run on this service. Hardly ideal in terms of comfort, but kudos to Caledonian Sleeper for managing to pull something together in the face of (admittedly self-inflicted) adversity at the last minute if this is true.
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Is it just me, or is this thread turning the way of the anti-Abellio GA ones during the summer.

I don't think it is. This all reads to me as genuine concern for a well liked and fairly distinctive service that is perceived as being run into the ground by the present operator. Caledonian Sleeper only runs four trains per day (plus Scottish portions) rather than the hundreds of a typical TOC, and with a fairly unique selling point, so I feel that it is quite important that Serco get it right as an incident that affects a single train has the potential to be extremely damaging to the brand and, in the long run, the service.

Personally, whether it had been First, Virgin Trains or even the sainted Wrexham and Shropshire running the service, if they had displayed the same lack of aptitude, particularly in their outsourcing decisions, that Serco currently are then I would have identical qualms.
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When did wheel flats, in leaf fall season, become the direct fault of the operator.

They haven't, but as you say management of the fleet does fall to whomever the operator has contracted it out to (if not carried out in house), and for whatever reason the processes that are in place now do seem to be less effective than those that were in place under First or National Express.

 

[kevin5025]

From the BBC this morning. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35164952. It says that a train of seated coaches is being run between Euston and Glasgow on both nights as alternative transport.

I am a sleeper passenger and I also know a few others. Our thoughts are that we fully support the strike, as inconvenient as it is. We know that faulty trains are not convenient either. The most concerning aspect is safety. The RMT claim that smoke alarms have been disconnected, and Serco have not denied this, which is very concerning (look up Taunton sleeper fire, 1978). I would really hope that the HSE is investigating the maintenance standards as a result of this.

But the other defects are really annoying for passengers. Toilets, air conditioning, taps - they have a big impact on passengers when they don't work. And when first class passengers find the train short of a coach and that they are sharing in standard, I wonder if they will return? Some will, some won't. This is not just about reliability (important as it is), as in % of trains that run. Those statistics don't show how many additional trains have faults that put off passengers returning.

I really hope that Serco have learnt a lesson from this. I don't know what has gone wrong, but it should not be allowed to reach this stage. It will take time to fix all the faults, and I know that taps and toilets are not (or should not be) the priority - safety issues first.

 

[sprinterguy]

It says that a train of seated coaches is being run between Euston and Glasgow on both nights as alternative transport.

Ah, so the "Nightrider" from days of yore does indeed ride again!

(For those who don't know, the "Nightrider" was a network of overnight seated services operated by British Rail, primarily between London and Scotland.)

 

[reb0118]

Am I right to think this is the RMT scoring points after the transfer of maintenance from RMT members in Inverness to Alstrom staff in Glasgow?

No, I doubt it (see previous posts above for clarification). Alstrom staff at Polmadie may also be RMT too for all I know. Does anyone in the know wish to confirm?

 

[Carntyne]

Am I right to think this is RMT scoring points after the transfer of maintenance from RMT members in Inverness to Alsthom staff in Glasgow?

It's a complete misunderstanding of how a TU operates. it carries out the wishes of its members. IE the Sleeper staff who brought their grievance to the RMT to work on for them.

The RMT top brass don't dictate when their members go on strike and what for.

 

[leightonbd]

Surely a finger should also be pointed at the franchisor - a more foresightful entity might have commissioned new stock a few years earlier? When I was a frequent traveller between 2003 and 2010 the failure/ disruption rate was nothing to write home about and the kit was alarmingly tired even then.

Serco is just the loser in a game of pass the parcel. I take that the change in maintenance provider hasn't helped but the bigger question may be: why has such tired old stock been flogged into the ground?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Serco is just the loser in a game of pass the parcel.

They didn't have to bid. They chose to. There is no sense in feeling sorry for a company that has potentially made a very poor commercial decision.

 

[NamelessPoster]

First up Alstom staff are RMT members (that comes from a chief RMT member). Second of all these 'tired' rolling stock were the same tired rolling stock used by First Group that were maintained to a better degree whereas they remained in service and with far less faults. SERCO went into this franchise promising overhaul of maintenance so that overhaul is evidently for the worse. Grievances were first aired four months ago and promised were made that things would improve but they have deteriorated so there we have it.

The crux of the issue is maintenance standards not being met. Those maintenance partners were chosen by SERCO so it is SERCO to blame for that.

 

[najaB]

Second of all these 'tired' rolling stock were the same tired rolling stock used by First Group that were maintained to a better degree whereas they remained in service and with far less faults.

Well, they are seven or eight months older than they were in First days... (Amazing that there are easily double the faults, given the mere 2% increase in age).

 

[NamelessPoster]

Well, they are seven or eight months older than they were in First days... (Amazing that there are easily double the faults, given the mere 2% increase in age).

I go along with the change in maintenance. Alstom do not know the stock as intimately as the staff that worked on the sets when First ran the sets. And those working on it now are not the same staff that worked on it under First. The RMT back up this theory as well.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Surely a finger should also be pointed at the franchisor - a more foresightful entity might have commissioned new stock a few years earlier? When I was a frequent traveller between 2003 and 2010 the failure/ disruption rate was nothing to write home about and the kit was alarmingly tired even then.

Serco is just the loser in a game of pass the parcel. I take that the change in maintenance provider hasn't helped but the bigger question may be: why has such tired old stock been flogged into the ground?

Oh hardly. It is entirely down to **** poor maintenance. Both with the old provider and the new. Serco got it bad to begin with, but they have done themselves no favours and it appears that the condition of the stock has got worse.

Properly maintained, that stock should be reasonably reliable.

 

[NamelessPoster]

Oh hardly. It is entirely down to **** poor maintenance. Both with the old provider and the new. Serco got it bad to begin with, but they have done themselves no favours and it appears that the condition of the stock has got worse.

Properly maintained, that stock should be reasonably reliable.

Sorry but I must point out that the same rolling stock used by First was without so many faults and serious ones at that. This is why there is now strike action. First managed the stock far better than SERCO.

 

[TUC]

As with when rail unions call strikes on disciplinary issues rather then going to a tribunal, yet again this is a rail union sidestepping the propoer processes for resolving such issues. If there are safety concerns, complain to the relevant safety regulator. If the concern is justified, then that should result in appropriate advisory/enforcement action. If the regulator considers the situation to be safe, it's their job to make that judgement. I'm getting very tired of unions not acting intelligently and passengers suffering for their lack of intelligent tactics.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Sorry but I must point out that the same rolling stock used by First was without so many faults and serious ones at that. This is why there is now strike action. First managed the stock far better than SERCO.

Where did I disagree with that? The service wasn't great with First, but it has deteriorated. I think I said that...

 

[NamelessPoster]

Where did I disagree with that? The service wasn't great with First, but it has deteriorated. I think I said that...

Sorry if I didn't make it clear but the part I disagreed with was in that SERCO had it tough to begin with. They did not inherit inferior stock to the previous franchise holder - it was the same stock and since then faults have increased in number and seriousness.