Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[NamelessPoster]

They would have used their alternative method of transport, and got where they were going.

If CS lose money on a couple of nights' trains that is really neither here nor there - passenger numbers would be disrupted near Christmas anyway.

Yes but was it not a move that stank of defeatism? I mean why bother even attending the talks if they so seriously believed they had a solution ie promise an immediate plan to improve greatly the faults in the rolling stock. That tells me they went into those talks with no new plan or solution on the table and knew talks were destined to fail.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes but was it not a move that stank of defeatism?

No, it was a move that "stank" of good customer service. At this time of year, doubt is no good - it causes people not to get where they are going at all, and ruins family Christmasses.

If there was not a near 100% chance of carrying everyone, they were right to cancel.

 

[NamelessPoster]

No, it was a move that "stank" of good customer service. At this time of year, doubt is no good - it causes people not to get where they are going at all, and ruins family Christmasses.

If there was not a near 100% chance of carrying everyone, they were right to cancel.

No that doesn't sit right with me. Good customer service does not leave passengers unaware of re-routing of services (as happened the other night) when the West Coast was closed (for emergency repairs carried out by Network Rail). Good customer service does not have trains hit by short-formed stock and have management on the trains affected heading to a berth leaving frontline staff to take the flak. I could go on but I think I have made my point.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No that doesn't sit right with me. Good customer service does not leave passengers unaware of re-routing of services (as happened the other night) when the West Coast was closed (for emergency repairs carried out by Network Rail). Good customer service does not have trains hit by short-formed stock and have management on the trains affected heading to a berth leaving frontline staff to take the flak. I could go on but I think I have made my point.

I was aware of those re-routings and I wasn't even a passenger.

But that aside, I did not comment on any of the above. I commented solely on their having taken a sensible action to remove doubt in the run-up to a critical travel period. That I think they did one thing absolutely right does not mean I think they do everything right. Quite the opposite, indeed.

 

[NamelessPoster]

I was aware of those re-routings and I wasn't even a passenger.

But that aside, I did not comment on any of the above. I commented solely on their having taken a sensible action to remove doubt in the run-up to a critical travel period. That I think they did one thing absolutely right does not mean I think they do everything right. Quite the opposite, indeed.

Fair enough.

 

[talldave]

At least there's plenty of time for the rolling stock to be worked on now

 

[captainbigun]

Would the RMT want their members giving up Christmas....

I wonder whether the supply chain has been considered, all very well wanting to fix something, if the parts are on a six month lead time, what can you do?

 

[NamelessPoster]

So I am still awaiting an explanation how the same rolling stock used by First could operate to a much greater degree of reliability than when it is now in SERCO hands? Any ideas?

 

[captainbigun]

So I am still awaiting an explanation how the same rolling stock used by First could operate to a much greater degree of reliability than when it is now in SERCO hands? Any ideas?

We discussed this at length, and in lieu of any stats to back this claim up its just supposition. I would suggest that this claim is actually not true.

 

[NamelessPoster]

We discussed this at length, and in lieu of any stats to back this claim up its just supposition. I would suggest that this claim is actually not true.

Sorry but no. Look at the situation we have now as one piece of evidence. As in staff that have worked the sleeper service (many for decades) and not held industrial action for almost two decades.

Second of all I speak from experience of using the service extensively under both First and SERCO and in all the time I travelled under SERCO the lounge cars were constant and cancellations and faults were far less prominent.

 

[captainbigun]

That's not evidence of these alleged faults or when they were first reported.

The published performance figures do not back up your statement either.

On one hand your grumbling about unsafe stock. So a lounge car is removed as not fit to run and you moan.

What is it you want?

 

[NamelessPoster]

That's not evidence of these alleged faults or when they were first reported.

It is evidence that the service has plummeted for reliability and total forming of services.

And you are speaking from outside whilst staff (who know the full situation) are the ones with that knowledge and information and it has so moved them to strike and I will repeat they don't take this action lightly as it is the first time sleeper staff have been forced into industrial action for almost 20 years.

 

[captainbigun]

There's two sides to every story. You don't seem to appreciate that.

Please provide the stats that back up your statement that reliability has plummeted. They don't exist.

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[NamelessPoster]

Sorry it does show the public performance as down:-

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...er-performance-under-serco-consistently-down-

And that report was BEFORE a marked decrease in performance.

Can I ask are you a regular traveller on the sleeper?

 

[captainbigun]

Sorry it does show the public performance as down:-

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...er-performance-under-serco-consistently-down-

And that report was BEFORE a marked decrease in performance.

Can I ask are you a regular traveller on the sleeper?

I suggest you read the comments, performance went up in period two vs period one. So, SERCO actually improved things post takeover.

No, I do not travel on the sleeper. But that is not the point.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Sorry it does show the public performance as down:-

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...er-performance-under-serco-consistently-down-

And that report was BEFORE a marked decrease in performance.

Can I ask are you a regular traveller on the sleeper?

You'll need to split out PPM to show TOC-on-self delays, as the PPM includes NR-on TOC and TOC-on-TOC on delays. Thanks in advance.

 

[NamelessPoster]

I suggest you read the comments, performance went up in period two vs period one. So, SERCO actually improved things post takeover.

No, I do not travel on the sleeper. But that is not the point.

Sorry it is the point. You cannot say what the sleeper was like before and after SERCO as you don't travel on those trains. I travel on them frequently and notice the difference (a vast one) and staff are now striking is also an indictment of how bad it has got bearing in mind this is staff who obviously don't strike just for the sake of it given the last sleeper staff strike was 20 years ago (almost).
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You'll need to split out PPM to show TOC-on-self delays, as the PPM includes NR-on TOC and TOC-on-TOC on delays. Thanks in advance.

Are you a regular traveller on the sleeper as well? And that report is matching up times of the year ie May in that case and was markedly down on the year before when First ran the sleeper.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A more up to date chart and here you see the fall-off:-

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/about/performance/

 

[captainbigun]

Thus far your only claim appears to be that staff are striking therefore it must be worse, plus your own anecdotal report. But there's nothing to back this up. Bring the hard facts and numbers then have the debate.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Sorry it is the point. You cannot say what the sleeper was like before and after SERCO as you don't travel on those trains. I travel on them frequently and notice the difference (a vast one) and staff are now striking is also an indictment of how bad it has got bearing in mind this is staff who obviously don't strike just for the sake of it given the last sleeper staff strike was 20 years ago (almost).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Are you a regular traveller on the sleeper as well? And that report is matching up times of the year ie May in that case and was markedly down on the year before when First ran the sleeper.

Why does one need to be regular traveller to ask for proof low PPM figures are attributable to Serco and not another TOC or Network Rail ?

 

[NamelessPoster]

Thus far your only claim appears to be that staff are striking therefore it must be worse, plus your own anecdotal report. But there's nothing to back this up. Bring the hard facts and numbers then have the debate.

And you have nothing. No experience of even travelling on the trains so that leaves you in even less of a position to judge don't you think?

 

[captainbigun]

I've not made the claim.....I've just asked you to justify your claim!

 

[NamelessPoster]

Why does one need to be regular traveller to ask for proof low PPM figures are attributable to Serco and not another TOC or Network Rail ?

You are the one asking for evidence then go and find some to tell us SERCO are doing fine - if you can.

I am offering opinions of those that travel on the sleeper regularly and staff that work on the sleeper as evidence.

All I have read here is waffle and fantasy that this is a strike manufactured by the RMT (when it was staff who took their grievances to the union and not vice versa). Waffle that it is RMT on a vendetta against poor little SERCO.

If this were the case then why have RMT given SERCO a good three months to prove (as promised) things would improve when the haven't at all. And that is why we are where we are now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've not made the claim.....I've just asked you to justify your claim!

I've offered my inside viewpoints from experience of travelling on the train but if you feel that isn't valid then sobeit but what evidence can you show me that SERCO are doing well and cannot be faulted for this situation?

 

[CosherB]

I've offered my inside viewpoints from experience of travelling on the train but if you feel that isn't valid then sobeit but what evidence can you show me that SERCO are doing well and cannot be faulted for this situation?

Now you're putting words into others mouths. :roll: I doubt that anyone is claiming that Serco are doing a wondeful job, but I also doubt it's a bad as some make out.

 

[NamelessPoster]

Now you're putting words into others mouths. :roll: I doubt that anyone is claiming that Serco are doing a wondeful job, but I also doubt it's a bad as some make out.

How bad do you want it?

Trains travelling without working smoke detectors/alarms.
Toilets out of order and often with none working in one coach.
No hot water in berths.
Flat spots on lounge cars with them going out of service.
No heating in coaches.
Short-formed services and formed in a jumbled fashion not condusive to a good service.
Lowlanders running without brake coach meaning the service cannot split so half of the passengers having to travel from Glasgow in day services to get to Edinburgh.

If there were to be a fire on these trains during the night it could be a raging inferno before it is detected.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm surprised the train doesn't have to be cancelled if the fire alarms are non-functional.

 

[Agent_c]

So I am still awaiting an explanation how the same rolling stock used by First could operate to a much greater degree of reliability than when it is now in SERCO hands? Any ideas?

Different maintenance staff and practices.

 

[NamelessPoster]

Different maintenance staff and practices.

So who changed those?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Different maintenance staff and practices.

And I did suggest that earlier in this debate but was told that wasn't the case.

 

[captainbigun]

When did wheel flats, in leaf fall season, become the direct fault of the operator. The same tyre turning practice exists now as it did when First were operating the train.

Maintenance practises are driven by the VMI, and I don't believe that has changed.

 

[NamelessPoster]

When did wheel flats, in leaf fall season, become the direct fault of the operator. The same tyre turning practice exists now as it did when First were operating the train.

Maintenance practises are driven by the VMI, and I don't believe that has changed.

Well it didn't happen under First in my experience - there was always a running lounge car. So were they just lucky or did they maintain the trains better?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And maintenance has changed. SERCO listed maintenance as one area they said they would transform when taking over the franchise so that says they surely must have changed maintenance practices and evidently it has not worked going by first hand observations/opinions.

 

[Darandio]

Is it just me, or is this thread turning the way of the anti-Abellio GA ones during the summer.