Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Chrism20]

There is no chance of contract termination being pursued unless things get much worse.

Until the new stock arrives I suspect Transport Scotland will be fairly patient.

I agree, at the moment the thought of cancelling the franchise probably hasn't even entered their heads yet.

The Edinburgh portion ran on and off (Admittedly more off than on) for a week which probably left reliability at around the mid-high 80's percentage wise for the week. If everything else runs for the reporting period it will be well over 90%.

The complaint/delay repay statistics will probably raise more eyebrows than the reliability ones as everyone travelling to/from Edinburgh will be entitled to something I guess whilst all the people who have been downgraded etc due to the stock being short formed will also be entitled to claim which will push up these figures.

 

[PHILIPE]

What's the service going to be like when the untried and untested Class 73/9s take over. I fear to imagine. A completely unknown quantity.

 

[CosherB]

What's the service going to be like when the untried and untested Class 73/9s take over. I fear to imagine. A completely unknown quantity.

Untried and untested? On what basis? I doubt that GBRf will just take an upgraded loco straight from Brush and send it to Scotland. They already have other 73/9s now in service so they're not a totally unknown quantity.

 

[Carntyne]

Untried and untested? On what basis? I doubt that GBRf will just take an upgraded loco straight from Brush and send it to Scotland. They already have other 73/9s now in service so they're not a totally unknown quantity.

One of the 73s are out for a run later to Mossend I believe.

 

[PHILIPE]

Untried and untested? On what basis? I doubt that GBRf will just take an upgraded loco straight from Brush and send it to Scotland. They already have other 73/9s now in service so they're not a totally unknown quantity.

They may have been fully researched but better wait until we actually see them on the job. If they do prove reliable, then I will eat my words

 

[Bletchleyite]

They may have been fully researched but better wait until we actually see them on the job. If they do prove reliable, then I will eat my words

As they are basically new locomotives, I don't see why they should not be.

 

[captainbigun]

They may have been fully researched but better wait until we actually see them on the job. If they do prove reliable, then I will eat my words

Hope you're hungry. How many HSTs sit down on a daily basis because they've been re-engineered.

It's just ridiculous wibble without any foundation.

 

[47271]

Just a little bit of additional insight on the passenger impact of one of the Edinburgh cancellations - Sunday night just gone. You can more or less piece it together from CS's Twitter feed, but it's worth highlighting here as described to me today by an Edinburgh work colleague - not one of the tweeters - caught up in it.

The situation was made far worse by there being only sufficient capacity on the Glasgow section to accomodate a proportion of the Edinburgh passengers - it was the end of half term and apparently the Highlander was full too. This meant that the remainder could only be bussed to Euston. This was bad enough, but the coach only had one driver who, firstly, hadn't been warned that he was on his way to London and, secondly, had to stop several times to keep within his hours. To use my friend's phrase, that's what I call a second class ticket.

There was no prior notice and noone from CS on hand at Waverley for what was a short notice cancellation - something like 20 minutes before departure if the passenger is correct - and not even a bottle of water to be had.

The story adds nothing to knowledge on the causes - after all there was noone there to explain, we assumed a failure to provide sufficient stock, it may be buried in the tweets - but doesn't reflect well on the operator's capacity to deal with the passenger consequences of its current technical difficulties.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The situation was made far worse by there being only sufficient capacity on the Glasgow section to accomodate a proportion of the Edinburgh passengers - it was the end of half term and apparently the Highlander was full too. This meant that the remainder could only be bussed to Euston. This was bad enough, but the coach only had one driver who, firstly, hadn't been warned that he was on his way to London

I would be quite concerned about that and might even have refused to board - quite possible he had not had sufficient sleep for an all night run.

If doing that sort of thing CS need to ensure they get enough coaches to allow everyone a double seat, I'd say, and very high quality ones at that. Perhaps a paid standby is needed. Or even a deal with BA or easyJet for at least the first class passengers.

 

[SeanG]

Doubt it would be economically viable to fly them down. Surely it'd be cheaper to hire in a mk4 set/HST/390 etc from VT or VTEC?

 

[cf111]

BA have today announced they'll be starting a daily rotation from Inverness to Heathrow in May 2016, so a bit more competition is incoming.

 

[najaB]

Doubt it would be economically viable to fly them down. Surely it'd be cheaper to hire in a mk4 set/HST/390 etc from VT or VTEC?

I doubt they would be able to arrange stock and drivers on such short notice.

 

[Bungle965]

I doubt they would be able to arrange stock and drivers on such short notice.

I was thinking the same thing!
Sam

 

[Bletchleyite]

Doubt it would be economically viable to fly them down.

It's doesn't matter what's economically viable short-term. They are hacking off a load of high value, fickle business travellers. Do it too much and their business model will be shot to pieces.

 

[D1009]

Can someone enlighten me what has actually been going on from an operational perspective? It looks as though one half set is OOU for whatever reason and as a result they have taken the decision to cancel the Edinburgh portion of the Lowland sleeper every other night. Do I have this right?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can someone enlighten me what has actually been going on from an operational perspective? It looks as though one half set is OOU for whatever reason and as a result they have taken the decision to cancel the Edinburgh portion of the Lowland sleeper every other night. Do I have this right?

I believe it was stated upthread that they are one BSO short, but for some reason it seems to escape their intelligence to hire a couple of them off a charter operator, or indeed to form a couple of scratch sets of the maximum length they can send to Glasgow thus being able to accommodate everyone to at least the right end of the UK. (Though anecdotal evidence suggests they may actually have done the latter in the end and lengthened the Glasgow train).

I see no reason why, for instance, a brake vehicle of any kind plus a Mk2 First Open couldn't be added to the FW portion at Edinburgh, allowing the FW portion's BSO to be used on the Edinburgh half-set. Or just a brake vehicle of any kind and let the FW seated passengers sit in the lounge car or any empty sleeping compartments.

 

[D1009]

I believe it was stated upthread that they are one BSO short, but for some reason it seems to escape their intelligence to hire a couple of them off a charter operator, or indeed to form a couple of scratch sets of the maximum length they can send to Glasgow thus being able to accommodate everyone to at least the right end of the UK. (Though anecdotal evidence suggests they may actually have done the latter in the end and lengthened the Glasgow train).

I see no reason why, for instance, a brake vehicle of any kind plus a Mk2 First Open couldn't be added to the FW portion at Edinburgh, allowing the FW portion's BSO to be used on the Edinburgh half-set. Or just a brake vehicle of any kind and let the FW seated passengers sit in the lounge car or any empty sleeping compartments.

Right, so it looks as though they got away with their contingency arrangements until half term weekend.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Right, so it looks as though they got away with their contingency arrangements until half term weekend.

So it would seem, but they will still be losing business passengers, whose employers will not tolerate a failure to arrive by 9am *too* often.

Here's a thought - could they not run a lengthened train to Glasgow then onward to Edinburgh, so at least if the Edinburgh passengers are going to have to arrive late they can kip in while doing so?

There seem to be lots of options better than the rather incompetent one they appear to have selected.

 

[D1009]

So it would seem, but they will still be losing business passengers, whose employers will not tolerate a failure to arrive by 9am *too* often.

How many business passengers use the service, though? I suspect the costs of running such a service would exceed the cost of taking them by limousine between Glasgow and Edinburgh.

 

[Chrism20]

So it would seem, but they will still be losing business passengers, whose employers will not tolerate a failure to arrive by 9am *too* often.

Here's a thought - could they not run a lengthened train to Glasgow then onward to Edinburgh, so at least if the Edinburgh passengers are going to have to arrive late they can kip in while doing so?

There seem to be lots of options better than the rather incompetent one they appear to have selected.

Probably better running the longer train to Glasgow with Edinburgh passengers getting off at Motherwell and catching the 0650 VTEC which would get them into Edinburgh just before 0800.

You are correct though, business passengers won't tolerate this for any length of time and those are the ones that will be paying the higher fares.

 

[D1009]

So it would seem, but they will still be losing business passengers, whose employers will not tolerate a failure to arrive by 9am *too* often.

How many business passengers use the service, though? I suspect the costs of running an additional service would exceed the cost of taking them by limousine between Glasgow and Edinburgh.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How many business passengers use the service, though?

A lot, indeed rather the majority on Sundays/Mondays and Thursdays/Fridays.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Probably better running the longer train to Glasgow with Edinburgh passengers getting off at Motherwell and catching the 0650 VTEC which would get them into Edinburgh just before 0800.

That would also work and allow the pre-9am arrival. But if sleep is being lost, more will consider the early-start-and-flight option which for many is the default.

You are correct though, business passengers won't tolerate this for any length of time and those are the ones that will be paying the higher fares.

Indeed. They have to sort this out or it could easily kill them. The death of many European sleepers has been the loss of lucrative business passengers - a sleeper simply cannot survive on InterRailers alone.

 

[Observer]

It just seems ridiculous that they are doing this on multiple occasions. As said before, I can't see why a charter company couldn't lend them some carriages to sort the problem.

Transfer it back to Scotrail if Abellio wil take it?

I don't think Abellio looked at the Sleeper.

I'm sure if that was the case, those blaming the sleeper maintenance on the loss of Inverness' involvement may be pleased as they may get the work back. Would probably mean another traction change though as Abellio favour DRS, who have no electric locomotives until the 88s arrive.

Transport Scotland are probably just going to stick with Serco, after all they promised new rolling stock from CAF.

 

[ld0595]

Looks like the Edinburgh portion was cancelled yet again this morning.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

I believe it was stated upthread that they are one BSO short, but for some reason it seems to escape their intelligence to hire a couple of them off a charter operator, or indeed to form a couple of scratch sets of the maximum length they can send to Glasgow thus being able to accommodate everyone to at least the right end of the UK. (Though anecdotal evidence suggests they may actually have done the latter in the end and lengthened the Glasgow train).

I see no reason why, for instance, a brake vehicle of any kind plus a Mk2 First Open couldn't be added to the FW portion at Edinburgh, allowing the FW portion's BSO to be used on the Edinburgh half-set. Or just a brake vehicle of any kind and let the FW seated passengers sit in the lounge car or any empty sleeping compartments.

It has been stated on another forum that the brake coaches on the Caley Sleeper are not standard as they have wiring for the fire alarm fitted.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It has been stated on another forum that the brake coaches on the Caley Sleeper are not standard as they have wiring for the fire alarm fitted.

Ah, that could be a valid reason, then. Interesting.

Perhaps if CS opened their corporate gob and publically explained the situation (as well as how long it is likely to go on for, and what action is being taken) people might be more understanding, then?

 

[FQTV]

Only obliquely relevant perhaps, but British Airways has announced that it is to return to Inverness with a once-daily service from Heathrow in 2016.

easyJet is increasing Luton to double daily next year, and has already upped the Gatwick service to thrice daily.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-34719798

 

[Johnuk123]

Only obliquely relevant perhaps, but British Airways has announced that it is to return to Inverness with a once-daily service from Heathrow in 2016.

easyJet is increasing Luton to double daily next year, and has already upped the Gatwick service to thrice daily.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-34719798

Although I have used the sleeper many times as it's now very much a hit and miss service it will be by air for me in future.
Shame as it used to be so good.

 

[scotraildriver]

It has been stated on another forum that the brake coaches on the Caley Sleeper are not standard as they have wiring for the fire alarm fitted.

This is indeed the case. The fire alarm control panel is in the brake, without it the guard wouldn't know where in the train the fire alarm had been activated. Secondly the guard has a brake dump valve to stop the train if necessary. Thirdly the guard/drIver comms equipment is there too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Although I have used the sleeper many times as it's now very much a hit and miss service it will be by air for me in future.
Shame as it used to be so good.

It smacks of the way Virgin (both XC and WC) ran down the older stock with poor maintenance causing failures and short-forms all over the place prior to the arrival of the Voyagers and Pendolinos. And it stinks.