Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[trei2k]

I wonder what is up?

https://twitter.com/CalSleeper/status/657601233830682624

SERVICE UPDATE: we are unable to run the London Euston to Edinburgh service tonight. If you are affected, please contact us on 0330 060 0500

5:55 PM - 23 Oct 2015

 

[D1009]

That will cause some grief on the first Friday of the half term holidays.

 

[thealexweb]

When I got off the 19:26 Musselburgh to Edinburgh Waverley I saw the EWS Class 67 in one of the east bays and it was making a tremendous amount of noise, with orangemen walking along the track next to it. Also the Class 90 in the other bay platform was this one today.

 

[Dave1954]

Out of interest which one 2115 /2350 ??
Thanks in advance Dave1954

 

[thealexweb]

Out of interest which one 2115 /2350 ??
Thanks in advance Dave1954

I do not understand the question, and even if your question is aimed at me XD Is there a 21:15 Sleeper service?

 

[garose]

Looks like just the Edinburgh portion, at least that's where the bus replacement is. That would imply the Glasgow is still running?

 

[47271]

Out of interest which one 2115 /2350 ??
Thanks in advance Dave1954

I think you mean Euston departure times?

2115 is the Highlander - Inverness/Aberdeen/Fort William

2350 is the Lowlander - Edinburgh/Glasgow

 

[LeylandLen]

I presume you are entitled to compensation/refund if you book a compartment for sole use and then have to share ? Could you be forced to share with a member of the opposite sex , if a refusal meant you could not travel or end up in seated accommodation ?

 

[Chrism20]

Due to unforeseen circumstances?

Have they seriously put that up as the reason for cancellation on the website?

I hope the people who have been booked on the service are given a little more information than that.

 

[najaB]

I presume you are entitled to compensation/refund if you book a compartment for sole use and then have to share ?

I would certainly expect so!

Could you be forced to share with a member of the opposite sex , if a refusal meant you could not travel or end up in seated accommodation ?

I don't see how they could enforce that.

 

[marks87]

I presume you are entitled to compensation/refund if you book a compartment for sole use and then have to share ? Could you be forced to share with a member of the opposite sex , if a refusal meant you could not travel or end up in seated accommodation ?

In that scenario, I'd expect to be given a third option of overnight accommodation and equivalent class of travel on the first direct service the following day (stations to Fort William excepted, natch, but via VTEC for other destinations if necessary).

 

[Observer]

Does anyone actually expect Serco to complete the full length of their contract?

Given the problems so far, I doubt it. They seem to have sorted the loco problem for now (whether they'll crop up again when the 73/9s start who knows), but now it seems to be carriage maintenance that is coming up as sets are being short formed. Obviously there will be new stock in a few years time, but still, after one problem here comes the other.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Personally, no. TBH I half wonder if that's what is meant to happen so the stock order can be cancelled and the service scrapped.

 

[92002]

Due to unforeseen circumstances?

Have they seriously put that up as the reason for cancellation on the website?

I hope the people who have been booked on the service are given a little more information than that.

Seems to be a lack of traincrew problem. No doubt Edinburgh passengers would be accommodated as best they could on the Glasgow half, which could no doubt use the complete set. The Edinburgh half goes to Glasgow in any case for maintenance.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Hmm, is this really a lack of Crew or is it cost cutting to save an X move back West again? Sorry if I seam overly sinical but with this bunch of amaturs anything seams possible.

 

[Chrism20]

Personally, no. TBH I half wonder if that's what is meant to happen so the stock order can be cancelled and the service scrapped.

I hope it isn't scrapped. Firstly the staff deserve better and secondly I'd imagine the penalty for cancelling a bespoke order would be eye watering.

Seems to be a lack of traincrew problem. No doubt Edinburgh passengers would be accommodated as best they could on the Glasgow half, which could no doubt use the complete set. The Edinburgh half goes to Glasgow in any case for maintenance.

Thanks, bizarre why they didn't just say lack of available train crew rather than unforeseen circumstances which just sounds dubious.

Hmm, is this really a lack of Crew or is it cost cutting to save an X move back West again? Sorry if I seam overly sinical but with this bunch of amaturs anything seams possible.

Doesn't the half set return to Polmadie every morning anyway? I doubt it's to save money for that. Given the reports of sets running back and forth with the wrong amount of carriages etc could it possibly be so that they can get everything back into the right place for the start of the week?

 

[Blindtraveler]

I hadnt thought on that. Does the FortBill set stay there Sat to Sun? And are there any X Paths for the various highland portions to go back to Glasgow today and back in position for tomorrow?

 

[cf111]

In that scenario, I'd expect to be given a third option of overnight accommodation and equivalent class of travel on the first direct service the following day (stations to Fort William excepted, natch, but via VTEC for other destinations if necessary).

When I've been on a cancelled sleeper, we were allowed to stay on the train at Euston until the morning and then catch whichever East Coast service suited us in the morning as well as getting our money back in RTVS! This was under First.

 

[Norther Monkey]

I'm starting to have real worries about the sleeper. A service that has real quality of life positives for me, living in N Scotland and working in England.

The SNP's apparent vision of this as something of a travelling Scottish theme park, combined with a small franchise are to me both unsustainable as part of a daily(ish) service for both commuters and tourists.

The change in maintenance and traction seems to have been wholly negative. I do wonder how the franchise is performing financially given the compensation that must have been handed out in recent months.

 

[NotATrainspott]

I'm starting to have real worries about the sleeper. A service that has real quality of life positives for me, living in N Scotland and working in England.

The SNP's apparent vision of this as something of a travelling Scottish theme park, combined with a small franchise are to me both unsustainable as part of a daily(ish) service for both commuters and tourists.

The change in maintenance and traction seems to have been wholly negative. I do wonder how the franchise is performing financially given the compensation that must have been handed out in recent months.

Would you rather the sleeper stay as it is and so fail completely as soon as HSR brings down London-Scotland journey times enough to kill off the sleeper's business travellers? The only way for the sleeper to survive is for it to cultivate a tourist leisure demand which will be big enough to cope with the loss of business travellers, and that demand won't happen overnight. It's exactly the same as the transition from ocean liners to cruise ships - the people who are interested in travelling to get somewhere move to the better option and the service has to adjust to attract customers who aren't interested in getting to their destination very quickly at all.

 

[najaB]

Would you rather the sleeper stay as it is and so fail completely as soon as HSR brings down London-Scotland journey times enough to kill off the sleeper's business travellers?

I agree with the sentiment of your post, but it's 2015 and the earliest predictions have HSR travel to Scotland arriving some time in the early 2030's. If the current franchise operator doesn't get on top of the recent reliability problems, there's no reason for it to fear HSR.

 

[6Z09]

Does anyone actually expect Serco to complete the full length of their contract?

Given the problems so far, I doubt it. They seem to have sorted the loco problem for now (whether they'll crop up again when the 73/9s start who knows), but now it seems to be carriage maintenance that is coming up as sets are being short formed. Obviously there will be new stock in a few years time, but still, after one problem here comes the other.

Carriage maintenance issues were happening long before Serco came on the scene, Lounge car with no heating was a regular feature !

 

[najaB]

Carriage maintenance issues were happening long before Serco came on the scene, Lounge car with no heating was a regular feature !

Oh, no doubt that was the case as the stock is 30+ years old. I once got upgraded from seated coach to berth because the heating failed on cold March night. But I don't remember as many cancellations, instances of late running and short-formed running a year ago as there is now.

 

[Hadders]

Does anyone know if last nights Highland Sleeper was full? I'd like to think that displaced Lowland passengers from Edinburgh could have been accommodated if any space was available.

 

[Norther Monkey]

Would you rather the sleeper stay as it is and so fail completely as soon as HSR brings down London-Scotland journey times enough to kill off the sleeper's business travellers? The only way for the sleeper to survive is for it to cultivate a tourist leisure demand which will be big enough to cope with the loss of business travellers, and that demand won't happen overnight. It's exactly the same as the transition from ocean liners to cruise ships - the people who are interested in travelling to get somewhere move to the better option and the service has to adjust to attract customers who aren't interested in getting to their destination very quickly at all.

I agree that ultimately HSR, combined with current competition from air, makes the long term viability of the lowland sleeper dubious.

However, for those of us up north who work in England, I see few alternatives that will allow me to have dinner at home then be at work the next morning. Especially in the English midlands which don't have the air links that London does.

I'll be in my box before HSR solves that one for Aberdeen.

 

[cf111]

I too find the Sleeper a great option from Inverness as it means I can finish work, have my dinner, stroll down to the station and wake up in London. It'll be a long time (if ever) before moving that journey to a day train will be an option.

 

[Bodiddly]

I hadnt thought on that. Does the FortBill set stay there Sat to Sun? And are there any X Paths for the various highland portions to go back to Glasgow today and back in position for tomorrow?

The agreed set up with Serco is that the FW set is stabled in the motorail sidings during the summer months and Plat 1 when the Jacobite finishes it's summer season. The beds are made up and the cleaning done by Scotrail staff based at the station. FW has the advantage of having a shore supply. This of course means that the loco ETH doesn't have to be connected. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for the Inverness set. On a Saturday afternoon it gets shunted into the motorail siding and sits there until Sunday afternoon. The Inverness motorail doesn't have a shore supply so the locos are shut down and the coaches are effectively switched off. On the Sunday, the locos power up the ETH and the fitter turns on each coach. This is where the problems will show up during the winter months. The batteries don't like the cold and there will be failures of coaches. This is guaranteed as the MA's need the batteries to kick start them. Serco have been told of this up and coming disaster so we wait to see how they deal with it. The Aberdeen set has the benefit of using the depot.

I'm starting to have real worries about the sleeper. A service that has real quality of life positives for me, living in N Scotland and working in England.

The SNP's apparent vision of this as something of a travelling Scottish theme park, combined with a small franchise are to me both unsustainable as part of a daily(ish) service for both commuters and tourists.

The change in maintenance and traction seems to have been wholly negative. I do wonder how the franchise is performing financially given the compensation that must have been handed out in recent months.

I too, am very concerned about how this vital service is being run into the ground by an outsourcing company that has no apparent clue how the logistics work to run such a complicated service. The Scottish Governments silence is deafening on the shocking service statistics up to now.

Carriage maintenance issues were happening long before Serco came on the scene, Lounge car with no heating was a regular feature !

You don't know the half of it! You would be amazed at some of the miracles we performed at IS to get the sets out full and on time!

I too find the Sleeper a great option from Inverness as it means I can finish work, have my dinner, stroll down to the station and wake up in London. It'll be a long time (if ever) before moving that journey to a day train will be an option.

And this is exactly why this unique train journey must continue to be run with the professionalism that the on board staff are trying so hard to maintain!

 

[Highland37]

Statistics are mentioned above. I was interested in these also.

Where did you get them and are they available for posting?

 

[Bodiddly]

Statistics are mentioned above. I was interested in these also.

Where did you get them and are they available for posting?

You just have to read this whole thread to see how bad things are.

 

[AngusH]

I hadn't realised the difficulties at all.

How much would a suitable shore supply at Inverness cost?
I can't imagine much more than a few thousand pounds?
20,000? Not as much as 100,000 surely?

Unless they replace the motor alternators with the proposed solid state alternative that I recall reading about.