Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Clansman]

It was a rostering error, it turned out the booked guard did not sign sleeper stock so another guard was stepped up to cover the job. The Aberdeen sleeper portion is currently worked by Edinburgh guards. The same thing has happened a few times recently.

Quite a rookie error on the shift allocator's part if that was the case. Surprised there was no staff spare in Aberdeen who could've worked it as they sign the Inverness sleeper on Elgin diverts, and also there are lots of guards from staff depots who signed the sleeper under First's operation of the sleeper (Dundee/Inverness/Perth), although I'm not sure if Dundee guards still sign the Sleeper.

I seem to remember that Serco wanted to get their own guards instead of having to use ScotRail due to cost. That was a fair few months ago now, is the plan for them still to train up guards or are they going to be using ScotRail for the foreseeable future?
Sam

I can confirm that Perth guards at least will stop signing on the sleeper from June. It makes sense that Serco uses Scotrail guards until their new Mk5s are built. Bare in mind that most of the Scotrail guards who cover the sleeper now first started in the 80s when the loco-hauls were still running.

They're currently being recruited.

This.

Genuine question, not a criticism - why is it only just as the service is due to leave (it appears) they realise the guard booked isn't signed for sleeper stock? Does the guard only find out what they are on when they turn up for work? Fair enough the rostering goes wrong sometimes, but you'd expect someone to notice a little earlier?

Guards find out in advance when they check the rosters in the staff bothies normally after they sign off at the end of their current shift.

 

[TimboM]

I'm heading up to Fort William (by car) on Sunday 12th Feb. I was just wondering if the sleeper stock and locomotives stable up there for the weekend, or if they work light/ECS down to Glasgow.

If they stable at Fort William, are they in a photographable location?

Depending on when you're there, the path to move the stock from the sidings to the station is just before 6pm (although I assume can be variable to a degree as not much other traffic to contend with!) http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C74112/2017/02/12/advanced

Sleeper then scheduled to leave at 7pm.

 

[Scotrail84]

They're currently being recruited.

Going through the school now, should be ready in a few months

There are two hired mk2s, and this is one of them, that get added and subtracted to the Fort William section at Edinburgh but never make it south from there. The FW seats and lounge can't carry on to London since it would make the train overlong at Euston.

I haven't heard of major problems with flats recently but the mk2s seem to be suffering electrical faults again.

One of those coaches absolutely did make it to Euston on 1C11/1M11 last year when there was a huge screw up by Pomadie when they shunted in the wrong coach to 5C11, it was horrendous and I believe there was a serious arse booting given out for that.

MK2 faults just now include MA failures, poor heating, sliding doors isolated open in the seats rendering them useless as the coach can't retain its heat, boiler issues, drafts from the external vents which they are looking to address, droplight windows that either won't stay up or are very stiff to open/close.

Not to mention of course the loss of 9804 to fire and smoke damage the other night, coach is now at Pomadie and will be out of traffic for several months.

 

[IanM]

I'm heading up to Fort William (by car) on Sunday 12th Feb. I was just wondering if the sleeper stock and locomotives stable up there for the weekend, or if they work light/ECS down to Glasgow.

If they stable at Fort William, are they in a photographable location?

The stock is stabled alongside the station, easily photographed from the platform:

 

[najaB]

Not to mention of course the loss of 9804 to fire and smoke damage the other night, coach is now at Pomadie and will be out of traffic for several months.

Didn't realise the fire was that severe - I assumed it had just been a very minor fire, quickly extinguished.

 

[TimboM]

Didn't realise the fire was that severe - I assumed it had just been a very minor fire, quickly extinguished.

Even fairly small fires can cause a lot of damage, particularly in an enclosed space.

 

[philthetube]

Guards find out in advance when they check the rosters in the staff bothies normally after they sign off at the end of their current shift.

When I book on for work I look at what time I start and finish, the rest does not matter to me until I get there, if I phone for my duties I would not expect my manager to read out the shift.

It is possible that the job had been allocated to a spare, if that was the case then he/she would have no advance warning anyway.

 

[LowLevel]

There are lots of ways job allocations can go wrong. The resource scheduler (roster clerk) booked me on to a special turn off spare once. Fine and dandy. It was only when I got to work and picked up the job card I found it was traction I didn't sign and the job had been put in the computer with the wrong competencies attached. Whoops.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Not to mention of course the loss of 9804 to fire and smoke damage the other night, coach is now at Pomadie and will be out of traffic for several months.

Is it really worth fixing it this close to the Mk5s becoming available? A hire in with the lighting modified and fitted with normal first class seating would probably suffice at lower cost?

 

[Scotrail84]

Is it really worth fixing it this close to the Mk5s becoming available? A hire in with the lighting modified and fitted with normal first class seating would probably suffice at lower cost?

How many modified MK2 brake coaches are there with light dim switches, alarm systems, 31 specially designed reclining seats are there kicking about spare? There are 10 owned by Serco. 9800-9810, 9804 is gubbed. They need 9 per night. The Rivera coaches are a disgrace and not suited to ONS services and that's why they don't appear on any of the southbound services except the one cock up I mentioned previously.

AFAIK the MK5 coaches will only operate on 1C11/1M11/1S26 and 1B26 for at least the first 3 months of traffic, this is to ensure they end up at either Polmadie or Wembley each day incase there is anything which would not be able to be resolved if they end up at ft William, Aberdeen or Inverness.

 

[Scotrail84]

Even fairly small fires can cause a lot of damage, particularly in an enclosed space.

This one done damage to the roof and light fixings and spare parts are not too easy to come by.

 

[92002]

There are lots of ways job allocations can go wrong. The resource scheduler (roster clerk) booked me on to a special turn off spare once. Fine and dandy. It was only when I got to work and picked up the job card I found it was traction I didn't sign and the job had been put in the computer with the wrong competencies attached. Whoops.

The Aberdeen portion has been starting from Dundee, the last couple of weeks due to Engineering works. It goes empty on Saturday morning from Aberdeen to Polmadie. Returning to Dundee on Sunday night to start.

Guess that means changes of rosters and staff.

 

[43096]

How many modified MK2 brake coaches are there with light dim switches, alarm systems, 31 specially designed reclining seats are there kicking about spare? There are 10 owned by Serco. 9800-9810, 9804 is gubbed. They need 9 per night.

Serco don't own any (Eversholt do) and they have 11, of which 9804 is knackered.

Ideally they need 9 per night, but can use a standard Mark 2 BSO on the Fort Bill if required - indeed it was the last time I did it.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

How many modified MK2 brake coaches are there with light dim switches, alarm systems, 31 specially designed reclining seats are there kicking about spare? There are 10 owned by Serco. 9800-9810, 9804 is gubbed. They need 9 per night. The Rivera coaches are a disgrace and not suited to ONS services and that's why they don't appear on any of the southbound services except the one cock up I mentioned previously.

I did say "with the lighting modified and normal first class seating". That wouldn't take long to do and it would do as a short term measure until the Mk5s start arriving.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Just out of interest, does anyone know what last night's 1M16 20:44 Inverness to Euston sleeper service, between Inverness and Aviemore? It left Inverness on time, but arrived and departed Aviemore 105 minutes late.

Trust is quite vague, it says the delay is down to "signaller."

Other trains between Aviemore and Inverness appear to have been heavily delayed last night, including 1H53 18:11 Glasgow QS to Inverness which sat there for 2 hours 18 minutes.

 

[TimboM]

Just out of interest, does anyone know what last night's 1M16 20:44 Inverness to Euston sleeper service, between Inverness and Aviemore? It left Inverness on time, but arrived and departed Aviemore 105 minutes late.

Trust is quite vague, it says the delay is down to "signaller."

Other trains between Aviemore and Inverness appear to have been heavily delayed last night, including 1H53 18:11 Glasgow QS to Inverness which sat there for 2 hours 18 minutes.

There was a signalling fault just outside of Inverness.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Thanks for the information TimboM.

 

[cambsy]

I was on 20.44 Inverness-Euston sleeper on 30th January, left on time, came to holt between Inverness-Carrbridge, heard it was points failure, left. About 105 mins late, made up time only to get delayed going via Northampton and a broken down train Between Milton Keynes and Watford Junction, looked like it was a 66 hauled freight train, we arrived 09.13 in the end, also 67010 has been doing Inverness portion north of Edinburgh on own and had 92038 from Edinburgh to London, and 92014 was on blocks on lowland sleeper from Glasgow, and on Sunday night 29 th January, 57309 Pride of Crewe bought the stock in due to loco failure.

 

[najaB]

There was a signalling fault just outside of Inverness.

The sooner more of the HML is double track the better. It would make recovery from signalling faults/late running trains so much easier.

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding the shortage of guards for the Aberdeen portion - could the Aberdeen (or Edinburgh) guards that sign IC125s cover that leg?

I'm thinking that the Sleeper coaches and the Mk III IC125 coaches are similar in design (disregarding the electrical system) in that they both have slam doors, and the same hazards to look out for at the stations.

 

[najaB]

Regarding the shortage of guards for the Aberdeen portion - could the Aberdeen (or Edinburgh) guards that sign IC125s cover that leg?

Scotrail doesn't (I believe) have any guards that sign IC125s.

 

[Clansman]

Scotrail doesn't (I believe) have any guards that sign IC125s.

You're correct, although Scotrail guards were trained on BR HSTs right up until the 90s, so technically speaking there should be a good few guards knocking about in Aberdeen and elsewhere who have knowledge on the HSTs, despite not signing them since the 158s started to replace the 156s on Intercity routes.

 

[Scotrail84]

Regarding the shortage of guards for the Aberdeen portion - could the Aberdeen (or Edinburgh) guards that sign IC125s cover that leg?

I'm thinking that the Sleeper coaches and the Mk III IC125 coaches are similar in design (disregarding the electrical system) in that they both have slam doors, and the same hazards to look out for at the stations.

MK3 sleepers are completely different to the day coaches. Plus there are MK2 vehicles in the formation as well.

 

[Scotrail84]

Serco don't own any (Eversholt do) and they have 11, of which 9804 is knackered.

Ideally they need 9 per night, but can use a standard Mark 2 BSO on the Fort Bill if required - indeed it was the last time I did it.

When it comes to the EC running in December they may decide to run the ft bill coaches all the way to KGX as there will be 3 trains per night.

 

[fgwrich]

For anyone interested, this is the local newspaper story on the fire. Doesn't say much more than the BTP press release I posted above but I thought some may be interested.

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/l...train-16cdb1d9-bd57-4a21-82da-71bb7ef84219-ds

Man arrested at Carlisle following fire on train
Carlisle Railway Station
A man has been arrested following a fire on an overnight passenger train at Carlisle.

British Transport Police confirmed this morning that he was being held in custody after the incident at about 4am.

"A piece of luggage was set alight but it was very small," said a spokesman for British Transport Police.

"We attended and we've arrested a person on suspicion of that incident."

Firefighters were called to Carlisle Railway Station where there was a fire in a carriage on a Caledonian Sleeper travelling from Lockerbie to Carlisle.

The crew from Carlisle East Fire Station, who were called at about 4am, went to inspect the carriage which was put out by crew members before they arrived.

More articles...
Doubts over Moorside nuclear power plant as Toshiba reviews projects outside Japan
://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/latest/Man-arrested-at-Carlisle-following-fire-on-train-16cdb1d9-bd57-4a21-82da-71bb7ef84219-

 

[trainophile]

Forgive me for not reading the entire thread, but I have just booked myself a 1st Class trip to Fort William and back at the end of Feb, for a "special" birthday , and wondered what platform at Euston the Sleeper goes from. Would it always be the same one?

Also, is Coach W okay? I got allocated berths in that one both ways, and couldn't work out how to change to a different coach, not that I necessarily wanted to.

 

[Scotrail84]

Forgive me for not reading the entire thread, but I have just booked myself a 1st Class trip to Fort William and back at the end of Feb, for a "special" birthday , and wondered what platform at Euston the Sleeper goes from. Would it always be the same one?

Also, is Coach W okay? I got allocated berths in that one both ways, and couldn't work out how to change to a different coach, not that I necessarily wanted to.

Platform 1 at Euston is the booked platform, on rare occasions it uses 15. W is the very front coach.

 

[trainophile]

Platform 1 at Euston is the booked platform, on rare occasions it uses 15. W is the very front coach.

Thank you. So W is presumably the furthest from the Lounge etc? No worries, I probably won't want to spend time in it anyway.

 

[cf111]

Thank you. So W is presumably the furthest from the Lounge etc? No worries, I probably won't want to spend time in it anyway.

Yes, but there are two lounges - one for Inverness passengers and one between the Aberdeen and Fort William passengers so you won't be walking the length of the train or anything like that.

 

[trainophile]

Yes, but there are two lounges - one for Inverness passengers and one between the Aberdeen and Fort William passengers so you won't be walking the length of the train or anything like that.

Excellent . I'm so excited, can't wait. This all started because I picked up a Caledonian Sleeper 1st Class comfort kit in a charity shop yesterday. I was telling myself that's the nearest I'm going to get to the Caledonian Sleeper experience, but then I impulsively started looking online, and the rest...