Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[marks87]

so will the Fort William portion run as a four-carriage train all the way to London?

It has to, otherwise there's nowhere for seated passengers to go, nor would there be a lounge car.

It would cause a problem tomorrow morning if the line to Aberdeen reopens overnight, but not in enough time to get the seated and lounge cars down to Edinburgh for the northbound Fort William portion. Tomorrow night as well will be problematic, although there's all day tomorrow for an ECS run to Wembley if required.

I wonder where the "spare" coaches are - Polmadie or Wembley? If it's the latter, could they add the required coaches to the back of tonight's northbound service when it visits Wembley to transfer onto the NLL?

 

[Class 170101]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G67162/2016/01/08/advanced

Note that "tomorrow night" means "early hours of Saturday".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Inverness and Aberdeen both cancelled tonight. Not much choice with both routes south closed and the stock trapped in Inverness/Aberdeen.

Fort William portion set to run as scheduled (via ECML). A rare treat for seated passengers, not having to move at Edinburgh.

Typical, several rare bits of track as well.

Muirhouse South Jn to Larkfield Jn and Whifflet chord.

Will be interesting being at the back of those trains between Carlisle and Glasgow / Coatbridge. It won't be very warm.

 

[phatgav]

It has to, otherwise there's nowhere for seated passengers to go, nor would there be a lounge car.

It would cause a problem tomorrow morning if the line to Aberdeen reopens overnight, but not in enough time to get the seated and lounge cars down to Edinburgh for the northbound Fort William portion. Tomorrow night as well will be problematic, although there's all day tomorrow for an ECS run to Wembley if required.

I wonder where the "spare" coaches are - Polmadie or Wembley? If it's the latter, could they add the required coaches to the back of tonight's northbound service when it visits Wembley to transfer onto the NLL?

Well, I'm actually on tonight's 1950 from FOrt William to Euston. Initially they were saying it's going to run as a two car service to London, but because they need the seated and lounge car for the northbound highlander at Edinburgh, they say they're going to attach us to the Lowlander which will be held at Edinburgh for us.

I can't imagine this setup has happened often, if ever as it doesn't usually run over the ECML. Will be interesting at Euston as surely this will make the Lowlander 18 cars?

 

[marks87]

Well, I'm actually on tonight's 1950 from FOrt William to Euston. Initially they were saying it's going to run as a two car service to London, but because they need the seated and lounge car for the northbound highlander at Edinburgh, they say they're going to attach us to the Lowlander which will be held at Edinburgh for us.

I can't imagine this setup has happened often, if ever as it doesn't usually run over the ECML. Will be interesting at Euston as surely this will make the Lowlander 18 cars?

It would, which is far too long for Euston. Maybe they're sending the Glasgow portion down on its own, meaning 1x8 and 1x10 car services.

It does seem like a strange decision. No matter where the spare Mk2s are, there's surely a way of getting them to Edinburgh by tomorrow morning - either from Polmadie, or picking them up at Wembley on the transfer to the ECML. Unless, as mentioned above, there's something preventing the latter?

 

[phatgav]

It would, which is far too long for Euston. Maybe they're sending the Glasgow portion down on its own, meaning 1x8 and 1x10 car services.

It does seem like a strange decision. No matter where the spare Mk2s are, there's surely a way of getting them to Edinburgh by tomorrow morning - either from Polmadie, or picking them up at Wembley on the transfer to the ECML. Unless, as mentioned above, there's something preventing the latter?

Thing is, although the northbound highlanders to Inverness and Aberdeen are going to be terminated at Edinburgh, they say the Fort William
Portion is going to continue as normal, which would make sense as they would then have the Fort William carriages in the right place and attach the MK2 lounge and seated cars as normal. It seems they are going to run the Aberdeen and Inverness portions back to Euston empty sometime on Friday

 

[marks87]

That seems even more ridiculous and means Fort William passengers are being shifted when they don't need to be.

Tonight, run the complete Fort William portion to Euston. Then tomorrow morning, send to Fort William the lounge and seated cars originally destined for Aberdeen and send the rest back to Euston.

Net result is the same - 4 coaches in Fort William, 16 coaches at Euston (4 down there already from tonight; 12 sent back tomorrow) and the trapped coaches where they were.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't the Fort William seater currently the hired-in 2+2-with-tables one, which isn't really suitable for using for overnight passengers?

 

[phatgav]

Isn't the Fort William seater currently the hired-in 2+2-with-tables one, which isn't really suitable for using for overnight passengers?

Yes, the lounge car and seated car only run from Fort William to Edinburgh and then are attached to northbound Fort William carriages on the way back, so running all the way to London tonight would mean the fort William portion of tonight's northbound sleeper couldn't run beyond Edinburgh as it wouldn't have the lounge and sleeper, which would further disrupt tomorrow's service

 

[dcsprior]

Yes, the lounge car and seated car only run from Fort William to Edinburgh and then are attached to northbound Fort William carriages on the way back, so running all the way to London tonight would mean the fort William portion of tonight's northbound sleeper couldn't run beyond Edinburgh as it wouldn't have the lounge and sleeper, which would further disrupt tomorrow's service

Surely there will be 2 lounge & 2 seated cars as part of the highlander which arrives at Edinburgh from Euston. Normally these would go to Inverness and Aberdeen, but not with current disruption, so could the train not be split at a different point and 1 of each sent onwards to Fort William?

 

[DarloRich]

All via Hartlepool tomorrow night with locos added to front Doncaster - Newcastle

1S25/1M16 > 47812 47847
1S26 > 47843 47848
1M11 > 66720 67009

Sleepers via hartlepooh????????? Engineering work closing the line voia Darlo i assume? A long time since a sleeper train went along that route!

Caledonian Sleeper have taken a right kicking at times recently but deserve credit for keeping the show on the road in the current cirumstnaces

 

[phatgav]

Sleepers via hartlepooh????????? Engineering work closing the line voia Darlo i assume? A long time since a sleeper train went along that route!

Caledonian Sleeper have taken a right kicking at times recently but deserve credit for keeping the show on the road in the current cirumstnaces

Agreed. I've just arrived into Euston on the 1950 from Fort William which was attached to the Lowland at Edinburgh. I was convinced they were going to terminate us at Edinburgh and stick us on a day train, especially as there were only a handful of us onboard, but massive credit due and only 33 minutes late!

 

[sprinterguy]

Sleepers via hartlepooh????????? Engineering work closing the line voia Darlo i assume? A long time since a sleeper train went along that route!

Yep, the ECML between Darlington and Newcastle is closed for engineering works over the next three consecutive weekends.

Given that the last sleeper train to call at Sunderland was withdrawn in April 1977, and that sleeper trains were pulled from the East Coast route altogether sometime during the early throes of ECML electrification which would have greatly reduced the possibility even of occasional diversions, it must surely be a great many years since a sleeper train last ran via the Durham Coast!

 

[DarloRich]

i must say it is strange not seeing the sleeper every morning on my way to work as it has been diverted away form the WCML in recent weeks

 

[LeylandLen]

i see that last nights 1S25 Eus to Inv, and Aberdeen (FW portion did run all the way ) was terminated at Edinburgh at 0422 due to flooding between Dundee and Aberdeen );! I presume the 'customers' were allowed to stay in the bunks until a reasonable hour and take Scotrail or Rail replacement bus to final destination?

 

[marks87]

i see that last nights 1S25 Eus to Inv, and Aberdeen (FW portion did run all the way ) was terminated at Edinburgh at 0422 due to flooding between Dundee and Aberdeen );! I presume the 'customers' were allowed to stay in the bunks until a reasonable hour and take Scotrail or Rail replacement bus to final destination?

ECS left for Polmadie at 0624.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O59702/2016/01/08/advanced

 

[kevin5025]

ECS left for Polmadie at 0624.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O59702/2016/01/08/advanced

ouch, that is the 'red eye' service.

I have been really impressed with how Caledonian Sleeper have tried to keep the service running, diverting via east coast, and Aberdeen for the Inverness sleeper. I was coming back from Crewe, and they made sure I could get to London for boarding and made it home. The train was a coach missing southbound (but there was enough space), and on the way back had a toilet out of use, so there still seems to be maintenance issues, but it will take time. Hopefully a better year ahead this year.

 

[Essexman]

I was just going to say the same. It would have been easy to cancel the sleepers altogether or curtail them further running more buses, but very good to see that they've made an effort to keep running via diversionary routes.

 

[Mag_seven]

Typical, several rare bits of track as well.

Muirhouse South Jn to Larkfield Jn and Whifflet chord.

Will be interesting being at the back of those trains between Carlisle and Glasgow / Coatbridge. It won't be very warm.

All academic now as tonight's northbound "Highlander" is cancelled.

https://www.sleeper.scot/2-news/130-service-alterations

"Northbound Highlander - London Euston to Aberdeen, Inverness and Fort William
All Guests travelling on our Highlander service, departing for Inverness, Aberdeen and Fort William, are requested to instead board our Lowland service to Edinburgh Waverley. Boarding begins at 20.30 with departure from London Euston at 23.40. Please see below for arrival times for the Lowland service.Caledonian Sleeper tickets will be valid on daytime services and replacement bus services for onward travel."

 

[IanXC]

Impressively the Southbound Highland and Lowland, plus the Northbound Lowland are booked via Sunderland, Doncaster Royal Mail terminal and Wembly tonight.

Spare a moment to think of Inverness passengers who are diverted via Aberdeen too - Red Pen Special tho, presumably 67 to Edinburgh, 90 to Newcastle, pair of 47s to Doncaster RM, another(?) 90 to Wembly and yet another 90 to Euston... Arriving 1105, some 14 hours 49 minutes after leaving Inverness!

Just to top it all the cancelled schedule for the Northbound Highland is showing via Dumfries, splitting at Coatbridge Down Goods Loop. Anyone know what the loco arrangements would be for this?

 

[captainbigun]

90 will be dragged DIT between Newcastle and Donny RMT. 86xxx or 87002 WEFOC to Euston.

 

[Dave1954]

As I am some what unfamiliar with with railway around Newcastle , would the S/b -n/b caly sleeper be reversing at Newcastle at some point ?
Regards Dave1954

 

[causton]

As I am some what unfamiliar with with railway around Newcastle , would the S/b -n/b caly sleeper be reversing at Newcastle at some point ?
Regards Dave1954

There is a circular loop around Newcastle's approaches via the two bridges so no reversing is necessary so I cannot imagine it would happen unless there is a very good reason!

 

[Dave1954]

Thanks Causton , we`ll know more when it passes through Newcastle early in the morning . Regards Dave1954 .

 

[marks87]

90 will be dragged DIT between Newcastle and Donny RMT.

Will this be the longest passenger train in the UK, including traction.

2x47s, 1x90, 12xMk3s and 4xMk2s is, if my calculations are correct, 412.2m, beating Eurostar by 18.2m.

 

[D6700]

Just to top it all the cancelled schedule for the Northbound Highland is showing via Dumfries, splitting at Coatbridge Down Goods Loop. Anyone know what the loco arrangements would be for this?

Had that train been able to run, it would also have been diverted via the Durham Coast, with the same loco arrangements as the other northbound train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There is a circular loop around Newcastle's approaches via the two bridges so no reversing is necessary so I cannot imagine it would happen unless there is a very good reason!

Actually, that nearly was necessary, as all four lines on King Edward Bridge were planned to be blocked until 05:45, when the Up Slow would be handed back. However, at a late stage, the engineers kindly confirmed they would be able to hand the Up Slow back to traffic at 03:00. This enabled all three running trains to run over KEB and a simple loco attach/detach be performed in Newcastle station.

Had that not been possible, a much more complex method of working would have been required, including the 90's at the front of Southbound trains being propelled onto the Forth Banks line!

It is fair to say that a lot of work from quite a few companies went into making these trains work.

 

[jopsuk]

But I thought today's fragmented railway made that sort of thing a thing of that past? :P

 

[Class 170101]

All academic now as tonight's northbound "Highlander" is cancelled.

https://www.sleeper.scot/2-news/130-service-alterations

"Northbound Highlander - London Euston to Aberdeen, Inverness and Fort William
All Guests travelling on our Highlander service, departing for Inverness, Aberdeen and Fort William, are requested to instead board our Lowland service to Edinburgh Waverley. Boarding begins at 20.30 with departure from London Euston at 23.40. Please see below for arrival times for the Lowland service.Caledonian Sleeper tickets will be valid on daytime services and replacement bus services for onward travel."

Interestingly no revised schedules for tonight however on Monday night the following have appeared in Real Time Trains

Northbound
Lowland Sleeper
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G67166/2016/01/11/advanced

Highland Sleeper
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G67162/2016/01/11/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G67171/2016/01/12/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G67146/2016/01/12/advanced

Southbound
Lowland Sleeper
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G67154/2016/01/11/advanced

Highland Sleeper
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G67158/2016/01/11/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G67148/2016/01/11/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G67149/2016/01/11/advanced

Any chance of these running from Monday I wonder?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Presumably the full Lowlander runs to Glasgow with Edinburgh passengers making a connection there on daytime services?

Is any replacement bus or similar being provided for the "daytime" service from Edinburgh to Fort William?

 

[jopsuk]

does the full-length sleeper fit into Central, or do they have to run a shorter formation?

 

[LeylandLen]

Looking at the timings on RTT it seems to have been been diverted via Kilmarnock and Dumfries rejoining the WCML at Gretna Junction, but there are not many recorded timing points until it gets to Hamsted in west Midlands, obviously diverted around Birmingham. Can someone tell me why so many timing point are missed out?