Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Bletchleyite]

Aand...here we go again.

Seat booked on our Aberdeen-Eus service tonight? If you’ve not already been contacted, please call our Guest Service Centre on 0330 060 0500

What have they broken this time?

I'm starting to wonder if they would be better off withdrawing the service for a month (possibly with a night Pendolino replacement if VT will run one at the right price so at least there's something) and giving *all* the stock a full overhaul.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It doesn't say there is no service, it says there is no direct service. What you are suggesting is even more indirect than what they are doing.

Have you actually read it? It says:

- There is no service for Corrour, Rannoch, Bridge of Orchy or Upper Tyndrum.

That seems pretty clear to me - no service. Not "you can use ScotRail to meet the Lowlander at Glasgow", which is the factual situation even if an additional ticket is required.

Edit: berths and seats are still available on the Lowlander so it's not as if it's full.

 

[D1009]

Knowing the location well, the wait for the bus at Tulloch in the dark, wind and rain with traffic hurtling by at 830pm in November doesn't seem too appealing either.

Hopefully storm Abigail will have cleared by then.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Have you actually read it? It says:



That seems pretty clear to me - no service. Not "you can use ScotRail to meet the Lowlander at Glasgow", which is the factual situation even if an additional ticket is required.

Edit: berths and seats are still available on the Lowlander so it's not as if it's full.

I see which stations you were on about now, it's a pity you didn't make it clear in your earlier post.

 

[najaB]

That seems pretty clear to me - no service. Not "you can use ScotRail to meet the Lowlander at Glasgow", which is the factual situation even if an additional ticket is required.

But there is no Caledonian Sleeper service from those stations, unlike the other stations where there is a rail replacement bus being put on by CS. That is what they are saying - "we will not run any service" from those stations. It doesn't say "there are no trains".

 

[Bletchleyite]

But there is no Caledonian Sleeper service from those stations, unlike the other stations where there is a rail replacement bus being put on by CS. That is what they are saying - "we will not run any service" from those stations. It doesn't say "there are no trains".

Don't you think it might just be a bit of good customer service to tell your customers of the alternatives? You know, ATOC, *all the train companies working together*?

I think it is very poor.

 

[najaB]

Don't you think it might just be a bit of good customer service to tell your customers of the alternatives? You know, ATOC, *all the train companies working together*?

I think it is very poor.

I'm sure the hordes of people who would normally board at Rannoch can use NRE to figure out their alternative.

Edit: Could it be handled better, sure. Is it really that big of a deal, not really - as I said above, journey planners exist.

 

[Bungle965]

Oh dear this is becoming pretty unacceptable now, i hope serco realize this and are planing to do something about it!
Sam

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm sure the hordes of people who would normally board at Rannoch can use NRE to figure out their alternative.

Edit: Could it be handled better, sure. Is it really that big of a deal, not really - as I said above, journey planners exist.

It isn't in the spirit of co-operation in the passenger's favour, and more than a little lazy.

 

[ld0595]

I had a quick look around the website tonight and noticed that (according to them) the new coaching stock should start being manufactured in "Autumn 2015." Any news on whether this is the case or not?

 

[D1009]

Aand...here we go again.

Quote:
Seat booked on our Aberdeen-Eus service tonight? If you’ve not already been contacted, please call our Guest Service Centre on 0330 060 0500

What have they broken this time?

As it says seat, it could mean the seated vehicle is not available for use by passengers. From RTT it's departed Aberdeen RT.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose at least if they have to put seated passengers on buses that isn't a major difference in service.

 

[marks87]

As it says seat, it could mean the seated vehicle is not available for use by passengers. From RTT it's departed Aberdeen RT.

I suppose at least if they have to put seated passengers on buses that isn't a major difference in service.

Presumably they need only be bused as far as Edinburgh and the seated coach from the Fort William portion takes a trip to Euston? Fort William passengers are accommodated in the Aberdeen seated coach south of Edinburgh anyway, so no issues over capacity.

Or does that make the shunting operation more difficult?

 

[Flying Snail]

Presumably they need only be bused as far as Edinburgh and the seated coach from the Fort William portion takes a trip to Euston? Fort William passengers are accommodated in the Aberdeen seated coach south of Edinburgh anyway, so no issues over capacity.

Or does that make the shunting operation more difficult?

It would mean whatever fault exists would be put on tomorrow morning's down FW and up return assuming the spares are also out of action.

More likely they were trying to arrange either shared berths or individual if the passenger kicks off about sharing as I highly doubt tonight's down Aberdeen was full. At least the offending coach will end up in Wembley tomorrow where it *might* get sorted before tomorrow night.

The post earlier in the thread from the forum member who got a hotel room on the qt while the rest of the passengers were herded onto a road coach for the night tells me that the correct action to take if faced with a CS cancellation is to not accept an alternative you are unhappy with. If the offered alternative is a lengthy coach trip or a shared berth be vocal and stand your ground because it will be the quiet passengers who get the easy 3rd class solution while the awkward ones get preferential treatment.

I really don't want to criticise the frontline CS staff as they are being placed in a rotten situation having to deal with the fallout from this situation but they really need to take a look after the passengers, screw SERCO attitude. Even if that means they are ramping up the expenses by suggesting a night in a reasonable hotel + AM 1st class VT/VTEC travel as alternatives to all sleeping car passengers instead of pointing towards a rail replacement coach which is not a reasonable substitute for a night in a bed.

 

[92002]

Aand...here we go again.



What have they broken this time?

I'm starting to wonder if they would be better off withdrawing the service for a month (possibly with a night Pendolino replacement if VT will run one at the right price so at least there's something) and giving *all* the stock a full overhaul.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Have you actually read it? It says:



That seems pretty clear to me - no service. Not "you can use ScotRail to meet the Lowlander at Glasgow", which is the factual situation even if an additional ticket is required.

Edit: berths and seats are still available on the Lowlander so it's not as if it's full.

All seems pretty clear to me too.

It's called the line is closed for engineering work. So nothing to do with Serco.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is everything to do with Serco how they (mis)inform their passengers.

 

[theironroad]

It would mean whatever fault exists would be put on tomorrow morning's down FW and up return assuming the spares are also out of action.

More likely they were trying to arrange either shared berths or individual if the passenger kicks off about sharing as I highly doubt tonight's down Aberdeen was full. At least the offending coach will end up in Wembley tomorrow where it *might* get sorted before tomorrow night.

The post earlier in the thread from the forum member who got a hotel room on the qt while the rest of the passengers were herded onto a road coach for the night tells me that the correct action to take if faced with a CS cancellation is to not accept an alternative you are unhappy with. If the offered alternative is a lengthy coach trip or a shared berth be vocal and stand your ground because it will be the quiet passengers who get the easy 3rd class solution while the awkward ones get preferential treatment.

I really don't want to criticise the frontline CS staff as they are being placed in a rotten situation having to deal with the fallout from this situation but they really need to take a look after the passengers, screw SERCO attitude. Even if that means they are ramping up the expenses by suggesting a night in a reasonable hotel + AM 1st class VT/VTEC travel as alternatives to all sleeping car passengers instead of pointing towards a rail replacement coach which is not a reasonable substitute for a night in a bed.

Alas, a hotel room at one end of the country may not be much help if you need to be at the other end of the country early in the morning for an early start.

 

[talltim]

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-to-ballot-in-dispute-with-serco-caledonian-sleeper/

13 November 2015

RMT Press Office

Rail union RMT confirmed today that it is to begin the process of balloting members on the Caledonian Sleeper in a dispute with new operator Serco.

Despite several meetings between RMT negotiators and senior company management over the last few months the union has now been forced into informing the company it has no choice other than to proceed to ballot members over the company's failure to address the number of defects contained within the rolling stock.

The union says that some of the defects are potentially dangerous to the staff on board and the travelling public who are paying top dollar prices for a service which is unreliable, increasingly uncomfortable and riddled with health, safety and welfare issues.

RMT General Secretary Mick Cash said;

"The poor service to passengers, in conjunction with the company's failure to address the issues raised by RMT representatives and officials over several months, has now reached the point where the union has decided enough is enough and we will now proceed to ballot for industrial action before someone is injured.

"The sleeper franchise was awarded to Serco by the Scottish Government and the multi national privateer took over from First Group on March 31st this year. Our members have been unhappy with Serco's management of the iconic service from Scotland to London since the very early days of them taking on this fifteen year franchise. This is yet another example of Serco winning public sector contracts and failing to deliver for the tax payer, passengers and staff. "

Mick Cash went on to say Serco's failings to run a rail service should be a wake up call to the Scottish Government in advance of the announcement of the winner of the lifeline ferry service on Scotland's west coast currently delivered by the public sector through Calmac ferries.

"The Scottish Government must pay heed to the warnings from RMT and opposition politicians about the broken promises from Serco on their deliverance of public transport and ensure the announcement regarding the award of the Clyde and Hebridean Ferry Service is made in advance of the Scottish parliamentary elections next May. "

"Serco is a company who are specialists in failure when it comes to public sector contracts and RMT has no intention of allowing them to get away with compromising the safety of staff and passengers on the sleeper service."

Ends

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Has there been an official response made to the RMT from the Scottish Government?

 

[FordFocus]

What are the defects and issues in question?

 

[Tetchytyke]

The Scotsman is stating that the defects include smoke alarms (which should be of huge concern given the Taunton fire of 1978), hot water facilities, lighting and toilets.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/strike-ballot-called-over-sleeper-train-defects-1-3947551

CALEDONIAN Sleeper staff are to be balloted for industrial action over “potentially dangerous” defects with the ageing trains, the Rail Maritime and Transport union (RMT) announced today.

The move follows growing discontent among the 100-strong workforce at faults which the union claimed included smoke alarms, lighting and toilets not working.

There have also been problems with lack of hot water.

RMT Scotland regional organiser Gordon Martin said there were currently more than 200 defects with the trains, which had led to whole carriages being closed on some services.

Some coaches in the Sleeper fleet, which is due for replacement in 2018, date back more than 40 years.

The trains run six nights a week between Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Fort William, Inverness and London.

The RMT, which represents nine in ten Sleeper staff, said the number of faults had ”gone through the roof” since outsourcing firm Serco took over the franchise from FirstGroup in March.

It blamed this on Serco switching maintenance from being done in house to another firm, Alstom, which it claimed was an “inferior regime”.

An RMT spokesman said: “Some of the defects are potentially dangerous to the staff on board and the travelling public, who are paying top dollar prices for a service which is unreliable, increasingly uncomfortable and riddled with health, safety and welfare issues.”

General secretary Mick Cash said: “The poor service to passengers, in conjunction with the company’s failure to address the issues raised by RMT representatives and officials over several months, has now reached the point where the union has decided enough is enough and we will now proceed to ballot for industrial action before someone is injured.

“Our members have been unhappy with Serco’s management of the iconic service from Scotland to London since the very early days of them taking on this 15-year franchise.

“This is yet another example of Serco winning public sector contracts and failing to deliver for the tax payer, passengers and staff.”

 

[PaxVobiscum]

What are the defects and issues in question?

See above, and the background to all this:

A long string of problems starting with a lack of information for onboard staff right up to the actual change of franchise, ongoing problems with frequent locomotive failures and more recently cancellation and replacement buses necessitated by failures of coaches.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=118802 and before that
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=118198
and towards the end of the rather lengthy http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=118802 and
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=100803

 

[marks87]

The RMT is to ballot CS members for strike action.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/1332459...laims-caledonian-sleeper-not-fit-for-purpose/

The main reason appears to be:

RMT says that some of the defects are potentially dangerous to the staff on board and the travelling public who paying for a service which is "unreliable, increasingly uncomfortable and riddled with health, safety and welfare issues".

Although the RMT does have a penchant for hyperbole, so it should perhaps be treated with caution.

 

[andrewkeith5]

The RMT is to ballot CS members for strike action.



http://news.stv.tv/scotland/1332459...laims-caledonian-sleeper-not-fit-for-purpose/



The main reason appears to be:







Although the RMT does have a penchant for hyperbole, so it should perhaps be treated with caution.

Oddly that was posted elsewhere with a date of the third.

I'd love to know what these massive safety concerns are....

 

[talltim]

See above, and the background to all this:

A long string of problems starting with a lack of information for onboard staff right up to the actual change of franchise, ongoing problems with frequent locomotive failures and more recently cancellation and replacement buses necessitated by failures of coaches.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=118802 and before that
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=118198
and towards the end of the rather lengthy http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=118802 and
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=100803

Loco failures aren't (directly) a safety issue, although many of the in-coach failures can be. Even something as seemingly trivial as no hot water is a safety issue for cleanliness

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think based on reports on the other thread, the passengers may well be on the staff's side on this one...

 

[DarloRich]

A good old fashioned Health and Safety dispute!

 

[talltim]

Oddly that was posted elsewhere with a date of the third.

I'd love to know what these massive safety concerns are....

Sorry, copy-paste error. I've corrected it on the other thread now

 

[PaxVobiscum]

The RMT is to ballot CS members for strike action.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/1332459...laims-caledonian-sleeper-not-fit-for-purpose/...

There's a link appears at the end of the STV news story , dating back to the announcement of the Sleeper franchise award:
http://news.stv.tv/politics/276954-...e-out-15-year-contract/?fromstreampost=253051

The last words of the commentator are "..and tonight Serco have promised that the fares won't increase when they take over the franchise in April next year."
I wonder what happened to that promise? The price has almost doubled for myself and my son since our last trip in February.

 

[47271]

http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/14030585.Rail_summit_urged_amid__chaos_engulfing_the_system_/

Meanwhile, the Scottish Labour Party miss the point as usual.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I think based on reports on the other thread, the passengers may well be on the staff's side on this one...

Absolutely. The fact it has taken this long to happen demonstrates the goodwill of crews and there is bound to be a god bit of loyalty and support among regulars towards staff so Serco had better get ready for a load of supportive (of the traincrew) comments etc from these punters.
Further more if this goes ahead the resultant disruption may FINALLY wake the media up to the catalogue of disaster that has been the past 8 and a half Months and give them something to talk about in the Post Frothmass lul meaning that whatever happens the Management are in for a rocky start to 2016.

 

[Chrism20]

It's pretty sad that it has got to this stage although I'm sure someone mentioned a few pages back that the unions had threatened to ballot and Serco had managed to buy some time. Clearly the events of the last couple of weeks has pushed them to the limit and I have to be honest I'm surprised they have tolerated this much.