Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Sarahs_Railway]

The Sleeper is heavily subsidised by the Scottish and UK governments (via Transport Scotland and DfT - to the tune of several £million per year). It wouldn't be still running if it wasn't. It isn't a straightforward commercial operation - lots of politics/indirect benefits (e.g. tourism) involved.

I'd be interested to know (but don't expect for one minute anyone would reveal on a public forum) the balance between how much Serco are able to improve their profits through the way they run their services, how much of it they have to operate in certain ways and to certain places due to the franchise agreement etc and how much is a case of "they get paid anyway" even if services end up being over-priced and little used?

e.g. What is the scope/incentive for Serco to alter/improve services; manage prices etc and how much of it is a case of "keep running the same service but with shiny new stock, and we (govt) will make up any shortfall"?

It strikes me that this may become a case of "we can charge whatever we want and if no one travels we will still be paid" - a typical result of allowing a government to do anything. However there are business people who currently use this service to make working in London and maintaining and living in a home in Scotland and paying their community chsrge in Scotland etc viable. We arent millionaires or lords of our manors by any measure. We are simply trying to make our work lives worthwhile.
Will we be listened to? Probably not. The fares will go up until only those on paid journeys by either Parliament can afford them.
I find this sad as the staff of the Caley Sleeper are always brilliant. Cannot fault them on anything. Far from it I applaud them and hope that others will do so to to show that the sleeper fills a need

 

[92002]

As I understand it, the new stock is due to start being delivered in Autumn this year. It'll be then first introduced on the Lowlander (so the new stock is in either Polmadie or Wembley each night in case of teething problems); then will be rolled out to the Highlander. I'm assuming the Spring 2018 figure quoted is when they're expecting all stock to be replaced by Mk5s?

All this is of course subject to things going to plan and being on time...!

The first new stock may arrive in the Autumn but staff will need training.

So don't hold your breath for the new stock starting till next year.

There will need to be 5 half sets available. 4 to use and a spare.

 

[47271]

On the subject of squeezing frequent business travellers, I've heard from a regular that they're putting the Flexipass prices up AGAIN this weekend.

Online has gone up to £1450, in person to £1600. So if you're not buying online the cost of a single journey has gone up £30 or a stonking 23% in the past year.

So I think we can see their strategy here. They're easing the price up by increments, smaller ones for online buyers, ahead of the new stock. The question is where it'll stop.

If anyone from CS is reading, and cares, £170 is the tipping point for at least three of your ultra regulars...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

BA wants £266 to fly you from Edinburgh to Heathrow tomorrow morning.
That's a big part of the fares calculation.

 

[47271]

BA wants £266 to fly you from Edinburgh to Heathrow tomorrow morning.
That's a big part of the fares calculation.

Point taken, but the users I'm talking about are Highlander passengers who are a lot more pre planned than that. Their employers would think nothing of putting them on an afternoon plane the day before so long as the sum of flight, hotel and other peripheral costs is less than that of the sleeper ticket. They know exactly where their exit point is.

 

[pitdiver]

Point taken, but the users I'm talking about are Highlander passengers who are a lot more pre planned than that. Their employers would think nothing of putting them on an afternoon plane the day before so long as the sum of flight, hotel and other peripheral costs is less than that of the sleeper ticket. They know exactly where their exit point is.

Except if you work for National Express then it would be the Overnight Coach possibly all the way to Inverness.

 

[basfordlad]

I am on the Thursday night sleeper . On the fort William portion. We are sharing a berth and have pre ordered breakfast. There will be no.issue getting a seat will there as not in first class so to speak as per their website...

https://www.sleeper.scot/on-board/accommodation

 

[Clansman]

I am on the Thursday night sleeper . On the fort William portion. We are sharing a berth and have pre ordered breakfast. There will be no.issue getting a seat will there as not in first class so to speak as per their website...

https://www.sleeper.scot/on-board/accommodation

The website paints it out like standard passengers will get ousted from the lounge car if it's full of first class ones - which isn't the case all. The staff tend to just take it on a first come first served basis regardless of class, unless someone's sitting in another's reserved table.

First class only entitles passengers to a reservation of a table in the lounge, however as I understand this has to be consulted with the host prior to the journey. It's highly unlikely it will be a total sell out in terms of reservations as there are 6 tables (3 with 2 x seats, 1 with 3 x seats, 2 with 4 x seats), so chances of every first class passenger reserving every table is pretty slim. Also there'll be the 4 triple seated sofas, so as long as you can get there in good time before/after departure, then you'll be fine.

Enjoy your journey

 

[47271]

The website paints it out like standard passengers will get ousted from the lounge car if it's full of first class ones - which isn't the case all. The staff tend to just take it on a first come first served basis regardless of class, unless someone's sitting in another's reserved table.

First class only entitles passengers to a reservation of a table in the lounge, however as I understand this has to be consulted with the host prior to the journey. It's highly unlikely it will be a total sell out in terms of reservations as there are 6 tables (3 with 2 x seats, 1 with 3 x seats, 2 with 4 x seats), so chances of every first class passenger reserving every table is pretty slim. Also there'll be the 4 triple seated sofas, so as long as you can get there in good time before/after departure, then you'll be fine.

Enjoy your journey

Totally agree with all of that. There was a period about a year ago when a few Team Leaders got a bit over zealous about the First Class only rule, but they seem to have got bored with that now.

One other thing to add to help basfordlad, who only mentions a pre booked breakfast.

As a separate issue from the morning, if you want to use the lounge on departure from Euston on the Thursday evening before a Bank Holiday, it will be absolutely rammed. It's possible that all tables *will* be booked by First Class passengers. All you can do is get yourself down to the platform before 830pm, get checked on as soon as they release the doors and then hotfoot it to the lounge and see if they can find you a space, even if it's on one of the leather settees. Otherwise you'll be sat in your berth until gone 10pm when the first wave starts to clear off to bed...

 

[basfordlad]

As long I don't have a problem getting breakfast I will be happy, but I will take the point about getting to the lounge in the evening

 

[BRX]

About to get on the northbound highlander 92032 at the front from euston, 033 brought it in.

 

[TimboM]

About to get on the northbound highlander 92032 at the front from euston, 033 brought it in.

Looks like you've pulled out of the station, then stopped (for about 10 mins now)? Hopefully just waiting for a path and not 92032 having 'issues' again!? All it needs to do is get you to Wembley...!

 

[BRX]

Well, everything has juddered to a halt with someone pulling the emergency brake halfway up the platform. Meanwhile 90047 bringing in lowlander stock, 92018 on the other end.

 

[TimboM]

Well, everything has juddered to a halt with someone pulling the emergency brake halfway up the platform. Meanwhile 90047 bringing in lowlander stock, 92018 on the other end.

Hmmm... doesn't sound promising at all! Possibly 92032 misbehaving, or there's been a few issues with air leaks on the stock recently. That or it could be an "external" factor (although doesn't seem to be any other trains stopped, so doubt it's a trespasser or similar).


EDIT: I see you're on the move - good news! Maybe just needed a 'reboot'!

 

[47271]

Looks very similar to an incident I had leaving Euston on the Highlander a couple of years ago - we had a door spotted as off the latch.

 

[TimboM]

About to get on the northbound highlander 92032 at the front from euston, 033 brought it in.

Question I'd be interested in knowing the answer to from someone on board the ECML-diverted sleepers... other than the service alterations on the website (which take a bit of finding/reading/understanding), do CS give passengers any info about the ECML divert (e.g. via the PA or when they greet you) and in particular the Wembley reverse?

Pretty much every time over the past few weeks when there's a divert, there'll be a worried/miffed passenger on Twitter asking CS such things as "we've only just left Euston and we've stopped for ages" [when they're clearly at Wembley Yard for the reverse] or "we've left Euston, stopped and now we're going backwards to Euston again, what's happening!?".

Similar 'alarm' is often registered on ECML divert nights when the Up lowlander from Glasgow stops at Edinburgh for a while to collect the EDB portion.

Maybe these particular individuals haven't got the 'memo' - or CS don't deem it necessary, but given it is a bit of an odd movement (pulling up in a goods yard, stopping for 30-40 mins, going out the way you came...) you'd think they'd say something?

 

[TimboM]

Looks very similar to an incident I had leaving Euston on the Highlander a couple of years ago - we had a door spotted as off the latch.

And then a lot of doors to then go and check!

 

[Scotrail84]

Totally agree with all of that. There was a period about a year ago when a few Team Leaders got a bit over zealous about the First Class only rule, but they seem to have got bored with that now.

One other thing to add to help basfordlad, who only mentions a pre booked breakfast.

As a separate issue from the morning, if you want to use the lounge on departure from Euston on the Thursday evening before a Bank Holiday, it will be absolutely rammed. It's possible that all tables *will* be booked by First Class passengers. All you can do is get yourself down to the platform before 830pm, get checked on as soon as they release the doors and then hotfoot it to the lounge and see if they can find you a space, even if it's on one of the leather settees. Otherwise you'll be sat in your berth until gone 10pm when the first wave starts to clear off to bed...

Its their lounge car and they can run it as they see fit plus if its busy the lounge is automatically made 1st class only to sit in with a takeaway service for std class. They are instructed to do that by management when its busy.

If theres any issues with that then the train manager will make the final decision as they are in charge of the train and staff.

 

[Scotrail84]

Question I'd be interested in knowing the answer to from someone on board the ECML-diverted sleepers... other than the service alterations on the website (which take a bit of finding/reading/understanding), do CS give passengers any info about the ECML divert (e.g. via the PA or when they greet you) and in particular the Wembley reverse?

Pretty much every time over the past few weeks when there's a divert, there'll be a worried/miffed passenger on Twitter asking CS such things as "we've only just left Euston and we've stopped for ages" [when they're clearly at Wembley Yard for the reverse] or "we've left Euston, stopped and now we're going backwards to Euston again, what's happening!?".

Similar 'alarm' is often registered on ECML divert nights when the Up lowlander from Glasgow stops at Edinburgh for a while to collect the EDB portion.

Maybe these particular individuals haven't got the 'memo' - or CS don't deem it necessary, but given it is a bit of an odd movement (pulling up in a goods yard, stopping for 30-40 mins, going out the way you came...) you'd think they'd say something?

Hosts may mention it at check in but thats it.

No different to stopping at Carstairs to collect the Edinburgh portion.

The train is advertised as starting/terminating earlier/later than usual so as long as the tain is not late then nobody really bothers or complains. A lot of the east coast travellers are enthusiasts anyway so they know the script.

 

[BRX]

Made it to wembley fine. I think someone pulled the brake because someone wasn't supposed to be on the train or something. So not a train fault.

Quite atmospheric to rumble into wembley yard with the sun going down.

 

[TimboM]

Hosts may mention it at check in but thats it.

No different to stopping at Carstairs to collect the Edinburgh portion.

The train is advertised as starting/terminating earlier/later than usual so as long as the tain is not late then nobody really bothers or complains. A lot of the east coast travellers are enthusiasts anyway so they know the script.

..and at Carstairs I believe those in the Edinburgh portions go out a different way from which they came in.

I guess the Wembley Yard move is a bit different due to it being just after leaving - or before arriving at - Euston, which uninformed passengers may find odd - and if it's light enough the fact they're parked in a freight yard (at least Carstairs is a station).

To be honest, the folk 'complaining' tend to be the 'discusted' types who need to let everyone know how "appawling" the service is in the hope of some compensation... :roll:

 

[47271]

Its their lounge car and they can run it as they see fit plus if its busy the lounge is automatically made 1st class only to sit in with a takeaway service for std class. They are instructed to do that by management when its busy.

If theres any issues with that then the train manager will make the final decision as they are in charge of the train and staff.

Sorry, I realise that I phrased that in quite a casual and rude way. I wasn't suggesting that the crew were doing anything wrong, or making it up as they went along.

What I meant was, and in the context of basfordlad's query, that I heard of one or two cases when Standard passengers were asked to leave the lounge when it wasn't full, or there was any prospect of it becoming full. As I recall it was a proper interpretation of the rules around about the time that prebooked meals and, as a consequence, widespread table reservations came in.

 

[TimboM]

Made it to wembley fine. I think someone pulled the brake because someone wasn't supposed to be on the train or something. So not a train fault.

Do you still get fined £100 for that!?

...why did I ever doubt 92032...?

Quite atmospheric to rumble into wembley yard with the sun going down.

Anything good in the yard tonight? Think 87002 should be hanging around somewhere.

 

[Scotrail84]

Sorry, I realise that I phrased that in quite a casual and rude way. I wasn't suggesting that the crew were doing anything wrong, or making it up as they went along.

What I meant was, and in the context of basfordlad's query, that I heard of one or two cases when Standard passengers were asked to leave the lounge when it wasn't full, or there was any prospect of it becoming full. As I recall it was a proper interpretation of the rules around about the time that prebooked meals and, as a consequence, widespread table reservations came in.

It's fine mate, no bother.

At times when theres pre booked meals these can range from only 4 or 5 to 20 up to 30 certainly on the highlander and with space being at a premium the TL's really have no option but to close the lounge to std class.

 

[basfordlad]

My question was would I have any issue getting served the per booked breakfast in the morning as standard. Oh and it's the weds evening train. Not Thursday evening so sorry for any confusion.

Does anyone know what time breakfast is served from ?

 

[Scotrail84]

My question was would I have any issue getting served the per booked breakfast in the morning as standard. Oh and it's the weds evening train. Not Thursday evening so sorry for any confusion.

Does anyone know what time breakfast is served from ?

Are you travelling North or South on Wednesday?

Tell the host you want breakfast in the lounge when you board.

 

[BRX]

To answer the question about whether any mention is made of the diversionary route - no, it wasn't, and I think it does confuse some passengers, who not only notice the stop in wembley yard but the fact that an hour and more after we have left london, we are still rolling around in the vicinity of kings cross.

Eavesdropping in the lounge car, it seemed that one group had decided the reason for the stop and the diversion was to do with the engine having broken down.

Very busy in the lounge car tonight.

 

[BRX]

Do you still get fined £100 for that!?

...why did I ever doubt 92032...?



Anything good in the yard tonight? Think 87002 should be hanging around somewhere.

Noticed a 56 in the distance. Adjacent to where we were sat, a DRS 57 was running round a 313 (test train?) unit.

 

[basfordlad]

Are you travelling North or South on Wednesday?

Tell the host you want breakfast in the lounge when you board.

We are traveling north on weds night

 

[route101]

Looking at travelling from Fort William to Glasgow Queen St this Friday , do you have to reserve a seat or is there a supplement?